The Spirit of Truth

[Clark_Gabriel]

Jn. 16
12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13 But when He comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you to all Truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

Did the Spirit of Truth stopped revealing all truth when the last Apostle died?
If not,
where is He?
who is He guiding?
is He revealing truth to one church then tells another church another truth which contradicts the first and so on?

 

[2nd_Adam]

Jn. 16
12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13 But when He comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you to all Truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

Did the Spirit of Truth stopped revealing all truth when the last Apostle died?
If not,
where is He?
who is He guiding?
is He revealing truth to one church then tells another church another truth which contradicts the first and so on?

I think the debate is how God the Holy Spirit reveals truth. Does the Spirit illuminate truth through the Holy Scriptures as authoritatively. Or, does the Spirit illuminate truth through apostolic succession and the Catholic Magisterium?

 

[Departed_Light]

Did the Spirit of Truth stopped revealing all truth when the last Apostle died?

I think the Catholic Church think so. Don’t Catholics believe that public revelation ended with the Apostles and their teachings therefore nothing can be added to that because there is no more public revelation?

 

[Clark_Gabriel]

I think the debate is how God the Holy Spirit reveals truth.

Then make a new thread for this question of yours. I have my questions above which can be easily understood.

Does the Spirit illuminate truth through the Holy Scriptures as authoritatively.

Yes. But to whom did the Holy Spirit revealed this truth? How come there are only 27 Books in the NT? Yet, this is for another thread.
Stick to the original questions in the first post.

 

[Clark_Gabriel]

I think the Catholic Church think so. Don’t Catholics believe that public revelation ended with the Apostles and their teachings therefore nothing can be added to that because there is no more public revelation?

I think not. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think what the Church teaches is that all prophetic visions or revelations came to an end when Christ was born, died, resurrected and ascended.
Yet, you did not answer the questions on the first post.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Then make a new thread for this question of yours. I have my questions above which can be easily understood.

Yes. But to whom did the Holy Spirit revealed this truth? How come there are only 27 Books in the NT? Yet, this is for another thread.
Stick to the original questions in the first post.

Do you mind sharing if you are Catholic in communion with the Pope?

 

[Clark_Gabriel]

Do you mind sharing if you are Catholic in communion with the Pope?

Yes, I am.

 

[2nd_Adam]

Yes, I am.

I am glad to see that you posted your religon as Christian first and Catholic second!

Clark Gabriel
New Member Join Date: September 3, 2009
Posts: 9
Religion: Christian - Catholic

My Religon is Christian - catholic- Reformed

 

[Departed_Light]

I think not. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think what the Church teaches is that all prophetic visions or revelations came to an end when Christ was born, died, resurrected and ascended.
Yet, you did not answer the questions on the first post.

I am not Catholic so I can’t say with any sort of certainty. My post was in answer to your baited question. You want to show how stupid Protestants are by not agreeing with the Catholic position. And how illogical Protestants are for not believing that the Spirit of God rests with the Magisterium.

Well, the Magisterium has put out that public revelation has ended, correct? So the Catholic Church teaches that the Spirit of Truth has stopped revealing any new truths, correct?

Your bait has turned around and bitten you. What will you throw in the water next?

 

[simple_soul]

Jn. 16
12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13 But when He comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you to all Truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

Did the Spirit of Truth stopped revealing all truth when the last Apostle died?
If not,
where is He?
who is He guiding?
is He revealing truth to one church then tells another church another truth which contradicts the first and so on?

Dear Clark Gabriel,

I do not know these answers for fact for I am still pondering them myself but I can let you know my thoughts on it.

I believe the Spirit of Truth is living within all of us and guiding all of us. Some more than others. If we learn to quiet ourselves and listen for the Spirit the Spirit will speak to us by showing us the Truth of everything God wills us to understand. I think that is why we are continually understanding Truth more deeply than we did before. I think the term I heard earlier on a different thread that describes this the best is that “Organic growth of the Church” I believe the Spirit of God reveals His Truth when He wills it to be known. I have also heard it described that the “Truth is written in your heart” I can not recall were, but I think it speaks volumes on how we need to live by our conscience and trust God to guide us as we seek to understand His Truth. I do believe the catholic church is the over all leader in understanding God’s Truth. I would think that it is because of it’s Apostolic Traditions. So I would say that all Truth is revealed we just need to understand it more deeply.

I am sure others can correct or offer better insight into this,

Always praying and pondering

 

[Clark_Gabriel]

You want to show how stupid Protestants are by not agreeing with the Catholic position. And how illogical Protestants are for not believing that the Spirit of God rests with the Magisterium.

I don’t need to show anything. Anyway, as a Catholic, if the Spirit of God do not rest with the Magisterium then He’s in the Protestants? But, which one? Every other protestant church teaches another “truth”.

Well, the Magisterium has put out that public revelation has ended, correct? So the Catholic Church teaches that the Spirit of Truth has stopped revealing any new truths, correct?

I don’t have or I cannot express the exact words but I would say yes. If then the Spirit of Truth stopped revealing all Truth, wouldn’t He preserve it?

Your bait has turned around and bitten you. What will you throw in the water next?

They’re not baits. Those are just simple questions yet you cannot answer directly.

 

[Clark_Gabriel]

I do believe the catholic church is the over all leader in understanding God’s Truth. I would think that it is because of it’s Apostolic Traditions. So I would say that all Truth is revealed we just need to understand it more deeply.

Okay. Now I get it. It is revealed but needed to be understood deeply.

 

[kristanl]

Jn. 16
12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13 But when He comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you to all Truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

Did the Spirit of Truth stopped revealing all truth when the last Apostle died?
If not,
where is He?
who is He guiding?
is He revealing truth to one church then tells another church another truth which contradicts the first and so on?

This is why we have something called Apostolic Sucession. We believe that all bishops, cardinals, popes, priests are guided by the Holy spirit.
I would suggest reading:
Cathechism paragraphs 85-95, 874-933, 2032-2040
Bible
Mt. 16:13-19 (and Mt. 18:18) (Here he tells Peter whatever you say on Earth will be true in Heaven, whatever you deny on Earth will be denied in Heaven, this is why we have Popes that can speak infalliably because Jesus already gave them this- the chance to speak out like that)
Acts 1:12-26 (Apostolic succesion- Matthias becomes an apostles after Judas dies, the apostles decided, and it shows that the Psalms had originally wrote it as well. This is a fullfillment of OT, and then they leave it up to God)
Acts 15:1-35 (You see here how when Peter speaks, everyone falls silent… shows his importance)
Mt. 13:11 - this is how we know
John 16:12-15 - Holy spirit will guide you through all truth.
2 Tim 1:13 - How was he teaching Timothy? Not from a bible, but from tradition, sucession etc.
2 Tim 4:3-4 (here especially discusses why we cannot have false leaders making up there own things, it needs to be guided by the holy Spirit.)

In the 1st Century Pope Clement talks about apostolic sucession and how it comes from Jesus!

Irenaus talks about how the authority coems from apostles then from Jesus.

Hope this helps, look for more Early Church fathers on this subject!

 

[Clark_Gabriel]

I am glad to see that you posted your religon as Christian first and Catholic second!

Clark Gabriel
New Member Join Date: September 3, 2009
Posts: 9
Religion: Christian - Catholic

My Religon is Christian - catholic- Reformed

Well, if Luther wasn’t born and if there are no thousands of different protestant churches today that are all claiming to be Christians I would only post Christian in my religion.

 

[simple_soul]

Okay. Now I get it. It is revealed but needed to be understood deeply.

As an afterthought I would add that I believe it is in communing with one another that helps us understand Truth more deeply. We all have our paths we need to fallow and experience for some reason so I believe that in sharing our reflections we help each other along the way to understanding Truth.

Always praying and pondering

 

[chaunceygardner]

Jn. 16
12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13 But when He comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you to all Truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

Did the Spirit of Truth stopped revealing all truth when the last Apostle died?

NO

If not, where is He?

The Spirit is anywhere and everywhere It wants and needs to be.

Who is He guiding?

Anyone who “hears” and responds to His guidance.

Is He revealing truth to one church then tells another church another truth which contradicts the first and so on?

No. Not every “truth” that a church proclaims is a revelation from the Holy Spirit. What the Spirit reveals may be misunderstood or misinterpreted by some. Or they may refuse to accept it as coming from the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit works in subtle ways and we must be open to receiving the message. There are many instances of “inspiration” from the Holy Spirit that were not always immediately recognized as such. A great example is the story of Samuel and Eli in 1 Samuel 3. It took the wiser Eli to understand that God was trying to reveal something to Samuel. In the biographies and writings of holy men and women, we can find numerous times when they are “inspired” or “called” and question the source and meaning of that inspiration or call (Mother Teresa is one fairly recent example). But just like in the story of Samuel, the Spirit does not give up easily.

I think the Holy Spirit is constantly active among us, and revelation continues to this day, both to individuals and to humankind as a whole.

 

[RickHolland]

Jn. 16
12 "I have much more to tell you, but you cannot bear it now.
13 But when He comes, the Spirit of Truth, He will guide you to all Truth. He will not speak on his own, but he will speak what he hears, and will declare to you the things that are coming.

Did the Spirit of Truth stopped revealing all truth when the last Apostle died?
If not,
where is He?
who is He guiding?
is He revealing truth to one church then tells another church another truth which contradicts the first and so on?

It is not a matter of a the holy Spirit dwelling with a “church” as you have been taught; it is not the magisterium that is the church of God. The church of God is the Bride of Christ, which is all the redeemed throughout history; made of individuals with Chirst as the head in heaven and on earth. You will not understand the power of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer until you first have received the Holy Spirit, then the veil of blindness will be lifted just as Scripture teaches.

We can explain it to you till we are blue in the face; we can point you to the life giving water, but only the Holy Spirit can make you drink.

God bless to to that end,
rick

 

[RickHolland]

I think not. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think what the Church teaches is that all prophetic visions or revelations came to an end when Christ was born, died, resurrected and ascended.
Yet, you did not answer the questions on the first post.

If that were true, the Catholic Church would not exist. Why? Because the priesthood, magisterium, veneration or worship of saints, relics and images, the ideas of a nunnery, monastery and other inventions would not exist unless they believe they have other revelation because nun of that is in the pages of Scripture and most of it contradicts Scripture.

You are corrected because you are wrong and my prayer is God gives you the Good prescription for 20/20 spiritual vision.
rick

 

[2nd_Adam]

This is why we have something called Apostolic Sucession. We believe that all bishops, cardinals, popes, priests are guided by the Holy spirit.

Even Pope Leo X? Happy Reformation Day dear half sister in the Lord.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Leo_X

Pope Leo X (11 December 1475 – 1 December 1521) was Pope from 1513 to his death. He was the last non-priest to be elected Pope. He is known primarily for the sale of indulgences to reconstruct St. Peter’s Basilica and his challenging of Martin Luther’s 95 theses. He was the second son of Lorenzo de’ Medici, the most famous ruler of the Florentine Republic, and Clarice Orsini. His cousin, Giulio di Giuliano de’ Medici, would later succeed him as Pope Clement VII (1523–34).

 

[RickHolland]

I think not. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think what the Church teaches is that all prophetic visions or revelations came to an end when Christ was born, died, resurrected and ascended.
Yet, you did not answer the questions on the first post.

Jesus ministry was full of revelation and prophecy, John the Baptists was, Paul was givin visions and John as well; so if your church does teach that, then it would obviously be incorrect. I don’t think they taught that, but who knows?