The spirituality of emotional/mental disorders

[Mummybee]

Let me preface this by saying that I know this is just a forum for people to talk, and I am not seeking professional advice. I just want to hear people’s spiritual opinions on this matter. I hope I started this in the right forum, if not, I’m sure it will be moved.

About two years ago, I started a thread for anxiety/panic attack sufferers. I just went back and re-read it and am incredibly moved again by the stories and support and suggestions the posters had for me and for each other.

Having struggled with a specific phobia (as opposed to social phobia or other generalized anxiety disorder) for a while, but most seriously since my oldest was a toddler, I have pondered at great length the true nature of my phobia. (If need be, I’ll get into the specific phobia later on, but for now, I’ll spare you. If you can’t help yourself, go check out my posts from January of 05.) In any case, I have struggled with different treatment methods, and have abandoned them (none affected the cure I had so hoped for, and meds never helped much. Seemed a no brainer to go off them when the doc told me to when I got pregnant with #3). So I have endeavored for about five years now to understand what God’s will is in all this. A phobia is a fear, a horrific terror beyond description. One of the posters back then said her doc told her anxiety/fear and depression go hand in hand (caught her and others by surprise, as none felt depressed). What really got me thinking was when I heard Father Corapi once say that fear is a demon. I think he was speaking both figuratively and literally. That really changed my way of thinking. I couldn’t help but think to the passages of the gospel where our Lord drove demons out of people. It made me wonder, “Do I need deliverance?” Bishop Sheen, in one of his many programs, quoted some famous psychologist of the 20th century (I don’t remember his name, that’s how famous he was to me ) who said there are three things in psychology that can only be explained by the demonic:

1. Violence
2. Nudity (not just anybody getting changed, but a mental patient who can’t stop taking off their clothes)
3. Multiple Personalities

Okay, none of these apply to me, but it still got me thinking. I’ve been tempted to email Fr. Benedict Groeschel at his Sunday Night Live show, but figured the chance of getting any feedback would be slim. I just wonder if I’ve been approaching my problem from a ‘wordly’ perspective, when I should be treating it differently? I do pray the rosary almost daily (2 or 3x a day on most days) and the Chaplet of Divine Mercy, and many other daily prayers (I recently started a thread about defense from spiritual attack and got some great advice from the other posters).

Specifically, is there anyone out there who has a phobia and got cured of it? If so, was it by spiritual means? This is a heavy, heavy, heavy cross to bear, and it controls my life and I think obsessivley about it at times. I’m wondering if I should walk away from the psychological aspect of treatment and look for a good spiritual director/confessor instead.

Any thoughts?

 

[TOP]

Mummybee,
I have so much to say about this, but I couldn’t articulate it if I tried. After I was diagnosed with cancer at 32 , I had a series of terrible things happen in my life that sparked emotional issues. I really haven’t been given a definitive diagnosis, but have been told that post tramatic stress with depression/anxiety that has caused a brief period of pscychosis. During the “pscychosis” I had seen dark shadows around and in people, experienced time standing still and panic attacks. It was always religously based. I have been in the hospital 5 times the last year for these panic attacks and the like. During this time I have been seeing a medical Dr. who prescibes meds for these symptoms, but I also have talk to a few Priest about the same things. I have found that the meds help treat the symptoms, but advancing spiritually has helped the most. Rarely have I found Priest to take a report of a spiritual attack seriously from someone who is diagnosed with mental issues. But I have received blessings and offered the annointing of the sick. I have found the sacraments , sacramentals and devotions have been extremely helpful in curbing the fear and attacks. Basically, I’m not scared of the enemy anymore, so he loses ammo.
For personal reasons , I view individial sin as a demon that plants itself in the heart. Like each sin has its own demon. In contrast, each virtue is a type of angel in which we should fill our hearts with, not leaving room for sin. I don’t know if I would call fear a demon, but more of a symptom of whats in the heart. I have a fear of going out in public, but I’m finding it is a problem of me being judgmental. When I am feeling best is when I am able to help someone. Charity. See what I’m saying.
Dr.'s and Priest can treat the symptoms, but it is the grace God puts in your heart that heals. Hope I wasn’t way off and was able to help. Tim

 

[ThisOne]

I think a combination of psychotherapy and deepening our relationship to Christ is what heals. I also believe that the soul and spirit are what psychotherapy actually addresses. Phobias and neurotic fears are what we are doing to ourselves unconsciously. I do not believe they are caused by demons. They are demonstrably our own creation. Once we learn from our unconscious mind why we chose to solve a problem by becoming phobic, we can reverse it. We did the deed ourselves a long time ago, and we are adults today and we can undo it ourselves, too.

I think Christ is telling us to listen to those he has sent to us as helpers, and I think that viewing psychology as a tool with which mind, soul, and spirit are healed is healing from Christ himself.

There’s an interesting book called Religion and the Unconscious by Barry and Ann Ulanov that you might want to read.

Best wishes and prayers for your recovery,

ThisOne

 

[Mummybee]

I think a combination of psychotherapy and deepening our relationship to Christ is what heals. I also believe that the soul and spirit are what psychotherapy actually addresses. Phobias and neurotic fears are what we are doing to ourselves unconsciously. I do not believe they are caused by demons. They are demonstrably our own creation. Once we learn from our unconscious mind why we chose to solve a problem by becoming phobic, we can reverse it. We did the deed ourselves a long time ago, and we are adults today and we can undo it ourselves, too.

I think Christ is telling us to listen to those he has sent to us as helpers, and I think that viewing psychology as a tool with which mind, soul, and spirit are healed is healing from Christ himself.

There’s an interesting book called Religion and the Unconscious by Barry and Ann Ulanov that you might want to read.

Best wishes and prayers for your recovery,

ThisOne

Hi, ThisOne, thanks for the suggestions.

I used to think that once I discovered the cause of my phobia, I would either be cured of it or at least well on the way there. Well I discovered it, and it turns out it really hasn’t made any difference. I have only used behavioral/cognitive therapies very little. However, recently, in prayer, I had a small epiphany. I realized I can be happy, no matter what. Even in the middle of the worst situation (full exposure/being surrounded by the thing that causes my phobia), with the grace of God, I can be happy. That was a small break through for me. Thanks be to God, I haven’t had to face the object of my phobia since then to test it (it’s looming around me though, so I don’t know…) I pray God will give me the strength to find that joy at the all times. It’s still a consuming struggle…

THanks for the book suggestion.

 

[Mummybee]

Mummybee,
I have so much to say about this, but I couldn’t articulate it if I tried. After I was diagnosed with cancer at 32 , I had a series of terrible things happen in my life that sparked emotional issues. I really haven’t been given a definitive diagnosis, but have been told that post tramatic stress with depression/anxiety that has caused a brief period of pscychosis. During the “pscychosis” I had seen dark shadows around and in people, experienced time standing still and panic attacks. It was always religously based. I have been in the hospital 5 times the last year for these panic attacks and the like. During this time I have been seeing a medical Dr. who prescibes meds for these symptoms, but I also have talk to a few Priest about the same things. I have found that the meds help treat the symptoms, but advancing spiritually has helped the most. Rarely have I found Priest to take a report of a spiritual attack seriously from someone who is diagnosed with mental issues. But I have received blessings and offered the annointing of the sick. I have found the sacraments , sacramentals and devotions have been extremely helpful in curbing the fear and attacks. Basically, I’m not scared of the enemy anymore, so he loses ammo.
For personal reasons , I view individial sin as a demon that plants itself in the heart. Like each sin has its own demon. In contrast, each virtue is a type of angel in which we should fill our hearts with, not leaving room for sin. I don’t know if I would call fear a demon, but more of a symptom of whats in the heart. I have a fear of going out in public, but I’m finding it is a problem of me being judgmental. When I am feeling best is when I am able to help someone. Charity. See what I’m saying.
Dr.'s and Priest can treat the symptoms, but it is the grace God puts in your heart that heals. Hope I wasn’t way off and was able to help. Tim

Tim,

You are not way off, your points are very relevant to me. I’ve seen your posts before and know that you have some very heavy crosses to bear. I know exactly what you mean about priests thinking twice about taking a person with mental health issues seriously about spiritual attack. If you have an emotional/mental health diagnosis, your credibility is damaged. That’s why I wanted to email Fr. Groeschel, because he’s a psychologist as well as a priest. I’ve seen his live show and thought he’d give a fair consideration to the problem.

It’s a terrible struggle when your brain knows what reality is and knows God is loving and true and protects us, but then facing the fear…it’s that fight or flight, uncontrollable, automatic response that kicks in before you can stop and do the reality check. THe nature of my phobia is such that the cause is very sudden and unpredictable, and I can only avoid it so much. In other words, it’s not like being afraid of snakes, where you just stay out of the woods and don’t go to the zoo. So there is usually no time for reasoning. It’s also such that aversion therapy is extremely impractical. BTW, like you, my phobia stems from post traumatic stress.

I’ve often wondered if I should get the annointing of the sick. To be honest, even though I know I won’t be refused, I’m just so embarassed to ask my priest. I kind of don’t want to approach him unless I think he’ll take me seriously, and not consider me a kook.

 

[puzzleannie]

there is classic spiritual direction from the great Catholic spiritual writers specifically for persons when they are in the grip of a depression or other disordered mental state. John of the Cross would call it melancholia. Basically that direction is to remain faithful to prayer and the sacraments, not to make any serious changes in one’s manner of living, spiritual practices, penances, career, etc. (don’t get a divorce, change jobs, change religions, adopt severe penances etc.) when one is in such a state. It also includes getting the required professional help to deal with and overcome the condition, including prescribed medication, following medical advice, and taking general care of one’s physical health–walk, eat right etc.

A person who suffers from such episodes should have a spiritual director, or at least one priest as a confessor who knows him and his background. It is not a good idea to shop around for priests, or to ask a lot of casual aquaintances spiritual advice, or even to do a lot of spiritual reading not approved by one’s director. Some really heavy stuff read at the wrong time can make the mental state worse.

that being said, yes, as I get older, I definitely think there are some times when a mental illness can by demonic in origin, not full blown demonic possession, but the devil playing on an inherent weakness or fragility and manipulating the person for his own evil ends. I think a Christian psychologist who is at least aware of the possibility should be consulted if you even suspect such a thing. If you are right, they can also see you get spiritual help as well as medical. If you are wrong and the feeling of demonic depression is an illussion, he needs to know that so he can treat it.

 

[Mummybee]

there is classic spiritual direction from the great Catholic spiritual writers specifically for persons when they are in the grip of a depression or other disordered mental state. John of the Cross would call it melancholia. Basically that direction is to remain faithful to prayer and the sacraments, not to make any serious changes in one’s manner of living, spiritual practices, penances, career, etc. (don’t get a divorce, change jobs, change religions, adopt severe penances etc.) when one is in such a state. It also includes getting the required professional help to deal with and overcome the condition, including prescribed medication, following medical advice, and taking general care of one’s physical health–walk, eat right etc.

A person who suffers from such episodes should have a spiritual director, or at least one priest as a confessor who knows him and his background. It is not a good idea to shop around for priests, or to ask a lot of casual aquaintances spiritual advice, or even to do a lot of spiritual reading not approved by one’s director. Some really heavy stuff read at the wrong time can make the mental state worse.

that being said, yes, as I get older, I definitely think there are some times when a mental illness can by demonic in origin, not full blown demonic possession, but the devil playing on an inherent weakness or fragility and manipulating the person for his own evil ends. I think a Christian psychologist who is at least aware of the possibility should be consulted if you even suspect such a thing. If you are right, they can also see you get spiritual help as well as medical. If you are wrong and the feeling of demonic depression is an illussion, he needs to know that so he can treat it.

Wow, some fantastic advice. much to think about. Thanks PuzzleAnnie.

 

[TOP]

Mummybee,
I would not worry about asking for the annointing of the sick. A Priest once told me I was helping him get to heaven by asking for advice. He was pleased to help. I haven’t had the annointing yet, but may get it if my health declines. I want to make sure I’m ready for it, by preparing for it through confession and prayer. The blessings and prayers have been good enough so far. I want to save the big guns for when I really need it. God Bless , Tim

 

[puzzleannie]

anointing of the sick is always appropriate for someone who has an acute, dangerous episode of a chronic illness, or a flareup of a condition that has been in remission, as well as at initial diagnosis of the condition (anyone who has been there knows mental illness can be just as life-threatening and life-denying as physical illness).

 

[Leeta]

With depression and with my fears, I have found that the depression are false thoughts which I have to mentally stop and repudiate. That is I have to call them false and make myself realize that they are false. Then and continuously I pray and call on Jesus and then continue to consciously say no to the despair and then seek some activity or service to others. It helps. It is still painful. I just have to WANT to do it and not wallow in the hopelessness.

Part of it is definitely hormonal because it comes up out of nowhere. Then I start to hate being a woman, to be cursed with these feelings of fear for something about which I have no control.

Now as to my fear which is of falling snow and having to drive in it. I have laid it out to the Lord in front of His August Eucharistic Presence and I take it one day at a time. and I also have a plan to cancel all drives, etc., if the stuation is so dire. If I am caught out driving and it snows, my plan is to focus on careful, slow driving and constant prayer until I get home.
Now that is the plan I decided on in the fall and I just begged the Lord for help.
And lo and behold, he has sent us a respite from winter up until now. I am so thankful and I absolutely oppose the paranoia being stirred up by Al Gore and his ideaologues against GOOD weather. As if we have any effect on it by our activities.
I am feeling like a human being again. I could go on like this and cope very easily.
Well, its seems pretty trivial, I know, but everytime I drive in snow, I can feel the cortisone kick in and I start to jitter and flake out.

 

[Mummybee]

With depression and with my fears, I have found that the depression are false thoughts which I have to mentally stop and repudiate. That is I have to call them false and make myself realize that they are false. Then and continuously I pray and call on Jesus and then continue to consciously say no to the despair and then seek some activity or service to others. It helps. It is still painful. I just have to WANT to do it and not wallow in the hopelessness.

Part of it is definitely hormonal because it comes up out of nowhere. Then I start to hate being a woman, to be cursed with these feelings of fear for something about which I have no control.

Now as to my fear which is of falling snow and having to drive in it. I have laid it out to the Lord in front of His August Eucharistic Presence and I take it one day at a time. and I also have a plan to cancel all drives, etc., if the stuation is so dire. If I am caught out driving and it snows, my plan is to focus on careful, slow driving and constant prayer until I get home.
Now that is the plan I decided on in the fall and I just begged the Lord for help.
And lo and behold, he has sent us a respite from winter up until now. I am so thankful and I absolutely oppose the paranoia being stirred up by Al Gore and his ideaologues against GOOD weather. As if we have any effect on it by our activities.
I am feeling like a human being again. I could go on like this and cope very easily.
Well, its seems pretty trivial, I know, but everytime I drive in snow, I can feel the cortisone kick in and I start to jitter and flake out.

Leeta, when it comes to phobias, there is no such thing as trivial. That’s the whole point, things that shouldn’t bother us send us completely out of control with fear.

Wow, and I thought my phobia trigger was random. I feel for you, I really do. My ‘plans’ for dealing with a phobia trigger haven’t been so successful in the past. The amygdala in my brain just kicks straight into "fight or flight’ mode and once that happens, I am reduced to a useless pile of blubbering, hysterical jelly. I shake like a leaf, I have to run to the bathroom with diarrhea, my legs go out from under me…I’m a mess. It doesn’t just end there. It sends me into a tailspin of depression and anxiety for weeks, sometimes months afterward. And to make it worse, I dread constantly that the trigger will happen…the thoughts of dread are obsessive, too. That’s what I’m dealing with now. I fear I have a mild form of OCD from this.

In the past, in addition to extra prayer, I’ve tried to attend daily mass to stave off the fear as well. I work and have 3 kids, so finding the time is tough sometimes. I usually try to go to the 6:45 am mass at our cathedral (it’s on the way to work). Sometimes I’ve wondered if God allows this to go on just to get me to go to mass every day. I think of how child-like I become when I’m at my worst, and I’m reminded of St. Terese of Lisieux, and how she said we have to have a child like faith in God. Then I wonder if maybe that’s another reason why he allows it, so that I will come to him like a desperate child. He literally brings me to my knees when I’m at my worst…(that is, when I’m not going fetal. )

 

[dolphinlove]

Wow, I can really relate to a lot of people on here.
I did a silly thing and went out for a few drinks last night (i was close to getting drunk). Today, I am paying for it.
My nerves get all shot and the chatastrophic thoughts start in my mind.
I really am finding that I must stop drinking now (obviously I know) and start taking care of my health.
Anxiety attacks are horrid things, they make you feel so helpless and its a constant battle.
I pray to God pretty much everyday and stay the rosary a lot as well.
I hope I can become a lot more kind to myself and really start taking care of me.
Thanks for listening.

 

[Mummybee]

.
I hope I can become a lot more kind to myself and really start taking care of me.
Thanks for listening.

This is an important point! I’ve had more than one therapist tell me that I need to be gentle with myself. I’m not sure if they mean during my worst moments, or all the time. Although there isn’t usually any physical sign of it, phobias, depression and anxiety are wounds. You wouldn’t handle someone with a big gaping wound roughly, so on an emotional level, it’s very similar. I guess that brings me back to my original post. Are they wounds of the mind, the heart or the spirit? Or all of the above? Because if you’re going to successfully treat them, you have to know what part of the human being needs fixing.

Phobias and anxiety are fears. They are the most extreme versions of fears you can find. Having such consuming, uncontrollable fears makes it impossible to trust in God the way we are called to, the way we need to. So is this a sin? What does the devil seek to do? To separate us from God. So fear is hand in hand with lack of trust/faith, which is a very severe separation from God. Do you see my train of thinking? This is one of the reasons why I ask if others think these emotional/mental issues could require spiritual deliverance.

Don’t get me wrong, I know all the poor people on these boards (and many in the world) that suffer from these problems have very deep faith, and that faith is essential to their functioning. I know God uses illness and adversity to draw us to Him. I just think this could/should be considered from another spiritual perspective as well… I hope more folks post their thoughts on this, too.

 

[littleone]

Thank you so much for our thread. I have a wife and four youth (children) who all have mental health problems, I married my wife who has problems and took on her four children. I remembered your first note and today I spoke to the oldest (21) telling her that the fear she suffers from is spiritual and that with the help of mum and I she can beat it. Well today we went to the beach and she wouldn’t get out of the car, so I said to my wife that I would go and talk to the daughter.
As I spoke to her I cold see the spirit in her it seemed angry and ready to pounce. I told our daughter that it is a spirit and that it is probably telling her that I’m a …. #@%#. And that who do I think I am. I mentioned your thread and said that the way to beat it is to see all the good things around and focus on them and take a step out with us. I said that I would go out to the seat and wait for her. I took the picnic gear out and saw her coming, and to my knowledge that is the first time she has ventured out to among people.

So, thank you and
God bless you
Littleone.

 

[Mummybee]

Thank you so much for our thread. I have a wife and four youth (children) who all have mental health problems, I married my wife who has problems and took on her four children. I remembered your first note and today I spoke to the oldest (21) telling her that the fear she suffers from is spiritual and that with the help of mum and I she can beat it. Well today we went to the beach and she wouldn’t get out of the car, so I said to my wife that I would go and talk to the daughter.
As I spoke to her I cold see the spirit in her it seemed angry and ready to pounce. I told our daughter that it is a spirit and that it is probably telling her that I’m a …. #@%#. And that who do I think I am. I mentioned your thread and said that the way to beat it is to see all the good things around and focus on them and take a step out with us. I said that I would go out to the seat and wait for her. I took the picnic gear out and saw her coming, and to my knowledge that is the first time she has ventured out to among people.

So, thank you and
God bless you
Littleone.

Wow, Littleone, that’s amazing! I’m thrilled to hear that your daughter accepted your help and took a step in the right direction for herself. Thanks be to God!

Let me just say, though, that I can’t discern for myself (let alone anyone else) whether these problems are demonically influenced or not. It’s a theory I have, based on my own spiritual learning and research and experience. That’s why I started the thread, to see if anyone else thought that, or if they knew that. So please don’t take my word for it, because I’m not an expert by any means.

You are really something to take on both a wife and her four children, all with mental problems. You must have tremendous grace. God be with you and strengthen you. You and your family will be in my prayers.

 

[littleone]

Mummybe I wonder if you have spiritual gifts thatyou don’t even know about?

Let me just say, though, that I can’t discern for myself (let alone anyone else) whether these problems are demonically influenced or not. It’s a theory I have, based on my own spiritual learning and research and experience. That’s why I started the thread, to see if anyone else thought that, or if they knew that. So please don’t take my word for it, because I’m not an expert by any means.

I hope that you ask some person who is knowledgeable about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, if you don’t already belong to a group who teach of these.
I know that the spirit leads and gives to who He wishes but how many do not realise the gifts God has given them?
You are beutiful in God’s eyes
God bless
littleone

 

[Mummybee]

Mummybe I wonder if you have spiritual gifts thatyou don’t even know about?

I think the same could be said for everyone, Littleone! Don’t you think?

I hope that you ask some person who is knowledgeable about the gifts of the Holy Spirit, if you don’t already belong to a group who teach of these.

Good idea. Not that I think I’m special, just because it’s best to advance with guidance. I’ve been trying to figure out how to go about finding a spritual advisor, but am afraid to approach my priest.

I know that the spirit leads and gives to who He wishes but how many do not realise the gifts God has given them?

**Amen, my brother.

** You are beutiful in God’s eyes

**As are you,Littleone. :angel1: Your words have given me comfort. **

God bless
littleone

 

[littleone]

Mummybee:
You could join a group of spirit teaching (some might call them charismatic) or you could (as I did) ask Jesus to guide you to a group either way Jesus will guide you. Invite the Holy Spirit to be with in you and He will come, but He is a gentle man and will not take leverage.

I asked Jesus how I love the way He does, this is the answer. Take Jesus as your father Mery as your mother and you will have spiritual parents, take the saints as your brothers and sisters and the love you will have for all people will be the same.
You might on your knees give this prayer to Jesus and tell Him that this is your desire, keep on askinig as the old woman to the king in the bible and He will give it to you.

Lastly no person is special but all are called into God’s mighty works some as little flowers others as very large ones. Either way God is blessed because He alone choses.

God bless
littleone

 

[Mintaka]

Perfect love casts out fear, they say. I know phobias are different from ordinary fears, and that there’s a lot of complicated neurological and psychological stuff going on. But still, the more love you can give others, the less room there might be to notice fear. Maybe that would help a little.

If nothing else, everybody around you would love you even more.