The SSPX and True Catholicism

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The argument isn’t that relaxed disciplines cause emergencies. The argument is that “these” relaxed disciplines caused “this” emergency. LeFebvre did not decide to find an excuse (ie. relaxed disciplines) for disobedience. The disciplines were relaxed, the crisis developed in full, the Popes didn’t stop it, and LeFebvre then sprang into action.
You’re now verging dangerously close to special pleading. You’re saying that, well, we know one when we see one. There are no general cases or norms we can use to determine whether one exists, you are just crazy if you disagree with me about this particular case. The weird thing is, though, that I’m not even averse to using the term “emergency” to describe some of what was going on in the Church. For example, I think there were probably lots of heretical bishops who needed to be resisted (although canonically we must act as if they have jurisdiction until they are officially censured, lest quasi-Protestant personal judgments of bishops create ecclesiastical anarchy). What I’m saying is not that Abp. Lefebvre could not point to *some *emergency in the Church at the time, I’m saying that at the end of the day, he has failed to prove to the competent authorities (the pope) that the emergency to which he pointed justified his particular actions. Abps. Lefebvre and Milingo both acted in the midst of many of the same emergency conditions (we’re making slow progress, but I think L.A. and her cardinal metropolitan are proof enough that times are still bad indeed). That emergency obviously did not justify the African’s actions. So you’re going to have to do more for the Spiritan than simply point to the emergency.

The problem with claiming emergency as justification for disobedience is that you have to defend not only the existence of an emergency but also that the emergency justified the particular action for which you were punished. A fire on my neighbor’s property may justify my trespassing to put it out but it does not justify my stealing his television. A genocide would justify me in concealing “fugitives of justice” but it would not obliterate my obligation to observe traffic signals.

In similar fashion, you would be hard pressed to claim that the elevation of heretics to the college of cardinals excuses me from the communion fast or that the apostasy even of all Eastern Europe somehow creates a reason for an Australian to marry a Protestant without dispensation. Instead, an emergency justifies actions that are closely related to the nature of the emergency, usually to the effect of allowing breach of form when it cannot actually be realized. Having no reasonable opportunity to assist at Mass dispenses one from the Sunday obligation. No available church building would excuse a celebration in neutral or outdoor space for the good of the faithful (a military unit cannot be expected to build and consecrate a church every time a priest makes it to the unit). Those are direct relations.

The SSPX has failed, in the minds of most, to show that ordaining bishops without papal mandate (the bishops, after all, were not excommunicated for running an illicit society of common life or criticizing the formulations of Vatican II or even for celebrating the TLM) was directly excused by an extenuating circumstance. This especially because the authority they resisted was not, by their accounts, heretical or enjoining heresy or immorality upon them. Which leaves them with the defense that, even if the consecrations were not objectively justified the excommunications would still be invalid because of interior dispositions. A defense that leaves them resting on the same inaccessible evidence upon which Abp. Milingo could make his appeal - while acting as if the excommunication were valid.
 
What if one wants to understand the principals of modernism along with the specific teachings that were promoted by the modernists? Why no mention of “Pascendi”? That’s the landmark encyclical for the root of Modernism.
Dear GerardP:

Lamentabili sane exitu is THE SYLLABUS CONDEMNING THE ERRORS OF THE MODERNISTS.

The content of the Oath against the Errors of Modernism is…well, the oath against modernism.

Do you think Monsignor Joseph Fenton, S.T.D. was a modernist or just not very bright? Or is your criticism of him based on something else?

I would think the syllabus of the errors of the modernists or the oath against modernism would be a better summary than just reading Pascendi…do you think Monsignor Fenton was trying to hide Pascendi…or are you just way off base here?

Gorman
 
Dear GerardP:

Lamentabili sane exitu is THE SYLLABUS CONDEMNING THE ERRORS OF THE MODERNISTS.

The content of the Oath against the Errors of Modernism is…well, the oath against modernism.

Do you think Monsignor Joseph Fenton, S.T.D. was a modernist or just not very bright? Or is your criticism of him based on something else?

I would think the syllabus of the errors of the modernists or the oath against modernism would be a better summary than just reading Pascendi…do you think Monsignor Fenton was trying to hide Pascendi…or are you just way off base here?

Gorman
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I’ve had some “real world” responsibilities to take care of followed by some computer “issues”.

I’m not criticizing the monsignor at all. I simply pointed out that his definition of modernism left a lot to be desired. Had modernism been such a simple heresy, I’m sure there would have been no need for a condensed definition since Pius X was a Pope of plain language. As it is, it took a monumental encyclical to uncover the root errors at work with a heresy that employs a thousand noxious devices. That root being agnosticism according to St. Pius X.

Modernism can simply morph itself into another expression that simply sidesteps the monsignors pre-Vatican II description.

Don’t you believe that Romano Amerio had a much better grasp of how modernism affected the Church in the latter part of the 20th century?
 
I’m not criticizing the monsignor at all. I simply pointed out that his definition of modernism left a lot to be desired.
I don’t believe that Monsignor Fenton was attempting to define modernism.
Had modernism been such a simple heresy, I’m sure there would have been no need for a condensed definition since Pius X was a Pope of plain language.
I don’t understand what you are attempting to say here…a complex heresy would require a syllabus of errors would it not? Liberalism is a complex heresy as well…and it had it’s own syllabus did it not?
As it is, it took a monumental encyclical to uncover the root errors at work with a heresy that employs a thousand noxious devices. That root being agnosticism according to St. Pius X.
Modernism can simply morph itself into another expression that simply sidesteps the monsignors pre-Vatican II description.
Don’t you believe that Romano Amerio had a much better grasp of how modernism affected the Church in the latter part of the 20th century?
This is all tangential to the real issue being discussed by Monsignor Fenton…that is the abandonment of the 20th century dogmatic theology manuals (which were anti-modernist). The modernists had to abandon the teaching of the manuals…because they were orthodox and written to combat the modernist heresy which was still alive in many hearts and minds.

My point is that we should learn from these manuals…to ensure as best we can that we do not hold unorthodox views on things such as the infallibility of the Church in Her disciplines.

Gorman
 
I did not read all of the replies because I’ve heard all the arguments before.

I was a cradle Catholic. I lived through the 60’s and the Second Vatican Council. In searching for the Church I grew up in, I wound up involved with the SSPX for 12 years. I was more than just a parishoner. I not only taught in their schools, but I also administered a number of their schools.

After so many years, I had become so tainted and so jaded by the “teachings” of the SSPX, that I almost couldn’t see the forest for the trees. Thankfully, I never stepped over the line to become a sedavacanist. Many of the priests in the SSPX are. Many of the parishioners are, too. Thankfully, too, the Holy Spirit intervened and brought me away from the errors of the SSPX. Suffice it to say that I was told many, many lies by many, many SSPX priests and those lay people loyal to the SSPX.

I am now what I consider the best of both worlds. I am a parishoner at a parish where the Novus Ordo and Tridentine Masses are celebrated. So, I have a choice. It is good. I would caution anyone who is involved with the SSPX to be very careful what they allow others to put into their minds and hearts. I learned on my own that many groups are only concerned with their own survival. There are many, many serious errors espoused by those within the SSPX. One thing no one has brought up so far is the fact that some years ago the SSPX undertook the difficult task of conducting marriage tribunals for
the purpose of conferring annulments. I do not know if they are still doing this, but I know that they do not have the authority or ecclesiastical permission to confer annulments. There seems to be many areas for which the SSPX has assumed authority for which they do not possess.

For me, it wasn’t a question of whether or not the Masses were licit, illicit, valid or invalid. The question was, for me, was WHERE WAS THE CHURCH? I knew the answer to that. The Church is where Peter is.

There will never be a perfect Church until we are all in Heaven.

As far as my simple mind is concerned, the “extraordinary circumstances” which caused the SSPX to be brought into existence has long since ceased. Thankfully, we now have a Pope who is determined to continue the return to Tradition for all the Church–not just some of the parishes that happen to be blessed with a Bishop who understands.

That is my two cents worth!
 
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