The start of the Tribulation

[Ron_Conte]

The four horsement of the apocalypse represent four sets of events.
White horse: a major war
Red horse: severe civil disorder
Black horse: famine
Pale horse: death from a variety of different causes

I believe that this set of events will occur in the 2010’s,
beginning with a war in which the Arab/Muslim nations of the middle east
and northern Africa attack and invade Europe.

[Revelation 6]
{6:1} And I saw that the Lamb had opened one of the seven seals. And I heard one of the four living creatures saying, in a voice like thunder: “Draw near and see.”
{6:2} And I saw, and behold, a white horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering, so that he might prevail.
{6:3} And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:4} And another horse went forth, which was red. And it was granted to him who was sitting upon it that he would take peace from the earth, and that they would kill one another. And a great sword was given to him.
{6:5} And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying: “Draw near and see.” And behold, a black horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a balance in his hand.
{6:6} And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A double measure of wheat for a denarius, and three double measures of barley for a denarius, but do no harm to wine and oil.”
{6:7} And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:8} And behold, a pale horse. And he who was sitting upon it, his name was Death, and Hell was following him. And authority was given to him over the four parts of the earth, to destroy by the sword, by famine, and by death, and by the creatures of the earth.

 

[lorathon]

Mark 13:24-37

24"But in those days, after that tribulation, (R)THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT,
25(S)AND THE STARS WILL BE FALLING from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken.

26"Then they will see (T)THE SON OF MAN (U)COMING IN CLOUDS with great power and glory.

27"And then He will send forth the angels, and (V)will gather together His elect from the four winds, (W)from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven.

28"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.

29"Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door.

30"Truly I say to you, this **generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

31"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

32"(X)**But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. ****

33"Take heed, (Y)keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come.

34"(Z)It is like a man away on a journey, who upon leaving his house and putting his slaves in charge, assigning to each one his task, also commanded the doorkeeper to stay on the alert.

35"Therefore, (AA)be on the alert–for you do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether in the evening, at midnight, or (AB)when the rooster crows, or (AC)in the morning–

36in case he should come suddenly and find you (AD)asleep.

37"What I say to you I say to all, ‘(AE)Be on the alert!’"

Why do humans want to even try to figure out when Christ will return? I think it is better just to try and be ready in case it happens today. Just my opinion

 

[cheeto1]

Mark 13:24-37

Why do humans want to even try to figure out when Christ will return? I think it is better just to try and be ready in case it happens today. Just my opinion

I agree 100%. But why try? I guess the same reason the
wise men tried. They had spare time.

 

[lorathon]

From the CCC

Divination and magic

2115
God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

 

[1edyson]

I agree 100%. But why try? I guess the same reason the
wise men tried. They had spare time.

Idle minds like idle hands are the devils play things.

 

[Ron_Conte]

The tribulation is divided into two parts, sometimes called the lesser and greater tribulations. This thread is about the lesser tribulation; the return of Christ occurs near the end of the greater tribulation. So this thread is not about the date of the Return of Jesus, which is in the distant future.

The first part of the tribulation (the lesser) begins with the events of the four horsemen: war, civil violence, famine, death from a variety of causes. When this occurs, it will be unmistakeable.

Before the war, there will be an upheaval in the middle east and northern africa, a set of small wars, battles, insurrections and revolts, which will unite these nations under extremist leaders, preparing for the war in which Europe is invaded.

[Daniel 8]
{8:1} In the third year of the reign of Belshazzar the king, a vision appeared to me. After that which I had seen in the beginning, I, Daniel,
{8:2} saw in my vision, that I was in the capital city of Susa, which is in the region of Elam, yet I saw in the vision that I was over the gate of Ulai.
{8:3} And I lifted up my eyes and saw, and behold, a single ram stood before the marsh, having two high horns, and one was higher than the other and growing higher still.
{8:4} After this, I saw the ram brandishing his horns against the West, and against the North, and against the Meridian, and all the beasts could not withstand him, nor be freed from his hand, and he did according to his own will, and he became great.

 

[Nita]

The first part of the tribulation (the lesser) begins with the events of the four horsemen: war, civil violence, famine, death from a variety of causes. When this occurs, it will be unmistakeable.

Those four horsemen have been galloping all over the planet ever since original sin; that’s when the tribulation began.

 

[cheeto1]

Jesus Himself said that only the Father knew the exact time and
date, but He believed and said, “there are some standing here
who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming
in His glory.” Many have always thought that the end is very
near, maybe any minute, and we have to be prepared for this.
Right now the conditions are already right, even the Bible says
that antichrist has already come and that there are many
antichrists. It may be interesting to figure and all, but while you
are reading this, there may be a bright light and a loud sound.
The “sign of the Son of Man” will appear in the sky, and all will
know Him. So figure things if you want to, but never at the
expense of being ready this moment…

 

[Jim_Baur]

The four horsement of the apocalypse represent four sets of events.
White horse: a major war
Red horse: severe civil disorder
Black horse: famine
Pale horse: death from a variety of different causes

You present these as symbols.

In your judgment are these symbols?

If they are symbols: What Biblical passages helped you to disern these symbols?

I will not ask further questions.

I will not attack.

I am curious about your interpretation.

In God’s Beauty and Love!

Thank you and God bless.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Yes, these are symbols. There are no literal horsemen and horses. The interpretation of the symbols is not so difficult. The text is not entirely symbolic:

{6:2} And I saw, and behold, a white horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering, so that he might prevail.

He went forth conquering, with a bow (a weapon), so this indicates war. This occurs under the Providence of God, so the crown is given to him by God, i.e. God has appointed this war as part of His plan.

{6:4} And another horse went forth, which was red. And it was granted to him who was sitting upon it that he would take peace from the earth, and that they would kill one another. And a great sword was given to him.

Since war is already referred to in the previous verse, this is not the violence of war. Peace is taken from the earth, indicating civil disorder and violence, including such things as: riots, a great increase in violent crimes, violent protests, etc.

{6:5} And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying: “Draw near and see.” And behold, a black horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a balance in his hand.
{6:6} And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A double measure of wheat for a denarius, and three double measures of barley for a denarius, but do no harm to wine and oil.”

The balance with money on one side and food on the other indicates a famine where food is rationed. A denarius was a day’s pay, so a whole days pay buys only a limited amount of food. Wheat was the food of the wealthy and barley was the food of the poor. So the poorer nations will have more food, and the wealthy nations will have less food, during this unusual famine. Wine and oil were luxury goods, so luxury goods will still be available, even while food is scarce.

{6:8} And behold, a pale horse. And he who was sitting upon it, his name was Death, and Hell was following him. And authority was given to him over the four parts of the earth, to destroy by the sword, by famine, and by death, and by the creatures of the earth.

The pale horse is also described, in Zechariah, as speckled [Latin: varii], indicating various causes of widespread death. The expression ‘creatures of the earth’ probably refers mainly to diseases caused by bacteria and viruses, and not so much to animals.

 

[Fidelis]

I believe that this set of events will occur in the 2010’s, beginning with a war in which the Arab/Muslim nations of the middle east and northern Africa attack and invade Europe

No offense, but I’ve always wondered why people feel compelled to waste so much time on this type of fruitless speculation. If it’s not the Protestants with their “End Times” it’s Catholics with their “Great Tribulation.” Since individuals have no authority to definitively interpret any passage of Scripture, it has no value to anyone besides themselves.

The Book of Revelation especially has been the object of this type of vain musing for hundreds of years – everyone with a Bible and a lot of time on their hand seems like they have some inspired insight into apocalyptic events that no one else has ever had and that they all have to share with everyone else. The same Bible and the same Holy Spirit and you get 1,000 different interpretations! What’s up with that?!

It’s stuff like this that gives Bible reading a bad name – to me it’s the Christian “adult” equivalent of ghost stories and conspiracy theories about UFO’s and Sasquatch. I’m 50 years old and I’ve heard so many conflicting “Scripture interpretations” on this I’m convinced that everyone has one (just like a certain part of the anatomy). Well, all of these people have one other thing in common --they have all been WRONG.

Yet people continue to fruitlessly speculate…

Not angry or judgemental – Just my :twocents:

 

[aspawloski4th]

People speculate because most feel they cannot be ready for something they no not when it’s going to come. For me to be ready for the tribulation I’d have to do things that may get me fired from my 2 jobs, and go into severe debt. I can’t both ready for the tribulation and living normall life at the same time. Another thing, I hate surprises.

 

[Fidelis]

People speculate because most feel they cannot be ready for something they no not when it’s going to come. For me to be ready for the tribulation I’d have to do things that may get me fired from my 2 jobs, and go into severe debt. I can’t both ready for the tribulation and living normall life at the same time. Another thing, I hate surprises.

Understood. But if you are living a holy life of prayer, Scripture meditation and doing God’s will in the vocation he has placed you, you will be READY – you will KNOW when the “End Times/Tribulation” is here. No need for vain and fanciful speculation that changes over the years with each news headline.

Jesus never said to sit around and use the Bible and the newspaper as ciphers - he said WATCH, and BE READY.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Mark 13:24-37

Why do humans want to even try to figure out when Christ will return? I think it is better just to try and be ready in case it happens today. Just my opinion

Mine too.

Some people and denominations (SDA, JW, the Left Behind series, et al) use the book of Revelation as a focal point in building their theology.

But there may be a problem with using Revelation in the way they do. After all, it was written by John long after all the other apostles were dead. Peter and Paul were dead for 30 years before Revelation was written. None of the others ever knew anything about the four horsemen, the Millenium, the 144,000, the great crowd, the seven seals, and so on! Did the other apostles, then, have an incomplete knowledge of the faith?

However, Jude urged the early Christians to contend for the faith that was “once for all entrusted to the saints.” From this viewpoint, the faith had already been delivered, once for all, before John wrote Revelation.

What, then, is the proper use of this book?

 

[Sir_Anthony]

when aren’t there times of Tribulation?

3-5th centuries- Barbarian invasions, Persan invasions into the Roman

7-9th centuries- Viking, Muslim, and Maygar invasions

11-12th centuries- Crusades, Milleniumism

14-15th centuries- Hundreds Year War, Civil Wars, Black Death, Turkish Invasions

16-17th centuries- Protestant Revolution and the Thirty Years War

18th centuries- Wars of Austrian, Spanish succession, Seven Years War, American and French Revolutions

19th century- Napoleonic Wars, Revolution of 1848, American Civil War

20th century- WW I and II, Russian Revolution and Civil War, Vietnam, Israel vs. (insert country here), so on

We need to understand that we are living in the end times and have been living in the end times since the first century. The idea that we should try to figure out when Jesus is coming back instead of staying true to the faith is really dumb. Ok, now we figured out when the end of the world is, now we all have to be good Christians to get raptured up. A Christian should not need some not need some calendar date to clean up and shape up but need to embrace God everyday in their life, do good all time, and repent. The Lord will come when He will, for He will come as a thief in the night, always be prepared.

 

[mla505]

The four horsement of the apocalypse represent four sets of events.
White horse: a major war
Red horse: severe civil disorder
Black horse: famine
Pale horse: death from a variety of different causes

I believe that this set of events will occur in the 2010’s,
beginning with a war in which the Arab/Muslim nations of the middle east
and northern Africa attack and invade Europe.

[Revelation 6]
{6:1} And I saw that the Lamb had opened one of the seven seals. And I heard one of the four living creatures saying, in a voice like thunder: “Draw near and see.”
{6:2} And I saw, and behold, a white horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he went forth conquering, so that he might prevail.
{6:3} And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:4} And another horse went forth, which was red. And it was granted to him who was sitting upon it that he would take peace from the earth, and that they would kill one another. And a great sword was given to him.
{6:5} And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature saying: “Draw near and see.” And behold, a black horse. And he who was sitting upon it was holding a balance in his hand.
{6:6} And I heard something like a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A double measure of wheat for a denarius, and three double measures of barley for a denarius, but do no harm to wine and oil.”
{6:7} And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying: “Draw near and see.”
{6:8} And behold, a pale horse. And he who was sitting upon it, his name was Death, and Hell was following him. And authority was given to him over the four parts of the earth, to destroy by the sword, by famine, and by death, and by the creatures of the earth.

Don’t forget that John saw these events unfolding from the viewpoint of Eternity in Heaven. There is no Time in Heaven. these events have occurred, are occurring and will occur until the end of Time. We cannot limit these things to exact time lines because the ability to do so requires Godhead thus “only the Father knows the hour”. Events that occur in Eternity are mingled and interspersed within the whole of Time since Time is a limited and “dim reflection” of Eternity. Yes, these things will occur in 2010 just as they have happened from time immemorial. We can always take an arbitrary year and say these events will occur and we will be correct. Assuming, of course, the end of Time doesn’t occur first.

 

[Benadam]

Mark Ch. 13

7**And when you shall hear of wars and rumours **of wars, fear ye not. For such things must needs be, but the end is not yet.

Not even a rumour of a war

Mathew Ch. 24
37And as in the days of Noe, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, even till that day in which Noe entered into the ark, 39 And they knew not till the flood came, and took them all away; so also shall the coming of the Son of man be.

******When we see humanity at peace, self suficient, seemingly to have successfully eliminated the consequences of sin, the delusion will be complete. ******

This seems to me to be the cultural climate that will mark the season for the return of Jesus

.