The stone tablets?

[super64]

Hello,
Happy Lord’s day to you all!

1. Today in my wifes RCIA class, we saw a video on OT bibical studies.(Focus on the family or Focus on the faith, something like that) The narrator said that the 10 Commandments were writing on one and copied on another (by God) then Moses brought them to the people. He explained that in a covenant, one party retained a copy and the other party got the other. God’s copy went with the people, for their holy place was His holy place?(Holy of Holies) Of course, the head of the RCIA program said that the video was Protestant oreinted!?

I had not heard of this before. Is this true? Does the RCC teach this?

1. When listing the Ten Commandments, they listed #2 as ‘Do not make engraven images and worship them’. I thought that only non-catholic chruches listed them in this manner. We would include that in with the first commandment. That’s how the Catechism puts them. Have any of you seen this?

I asked the preist and he said that it’s up to interpretation. Meaning that no one came and interpreted for them. I said to him, ‘That’s because they didn’t have the Holy See? The Magisterium? What do they say?’. Instead of answering me he said I should address this question with the RCIA instructor giving the class. I declined because if he, the pastor, can’t answer the question then what would a lay person say that has any authority? What can we do?

I’m confused, angry and sad. This is how my wife and I feel. Were are not confused about being Catholic, just about what other Catholics are saying and teaching.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[dragonfly]

My first suggestion would be to devote this to prayer!!!

Let’s see here:

The ten commandments were indeed written on two stones. But what I have learned is that ALL TEN were on two; not all ten on one stone, and all ten on the other. For what purpose would this pose?? As they have stated to you, to take one to one side and the other to the other side. But in your class, where did they support this theory w/ biblical facts?? Where exactly in the bible did it quote that??

Perhaps we should start there and go through the bible again ourselves.

I can fully understand your frustration and agony. Especially when the man that you both have considered one of your great teachers can or will not even answer you. And if he couldn’t, it would have been just as easy to say, " I am not too sure either, but let me found out and get back to you"

But keep the Faith and keep praying. God put his word out there for all his children could know the truth. So, he will provide you w/ the answer, he is too loving to let you go astray.

 

[Della]

super64:

Hello,
Happy Lord’s day to you all!

1. Today in my wifes RCIA class, we saw a video on OT bibical studies.(Focus on the family or Focus on the faith, something like that) The narrator said that the 10 Commandments were writing on one and copied on another (by God) then Moses brought them to the people. He explained that in a covenant, one party retained a copy and the other party got the other. God’s copy went with the people, for their holy place was His holy place?(Holy of Holies) Of course, the head of the RCIA program said that the video was Protestant oreinted!?

I had not heard of this before. Is this true? Does the RCC teach this?

Focus on the Family is definitely a Protestant organization. It might be better if your RCIA group was using something by Scott Hahn instead of this series that isn’t Catholic in orientation. I haven’t heard the “God made copy a idea” before and I have a B. A. in Bible from a Pentecostal Bible college (I am a convert to the Catholic Church). It sounds like pious speculation to me, so I don’t think it matters very much. The Ten Commandments were placed in the Ark of the Covenant–a second set that God had given Moses because he (Moses) had detroyed the first set when he found the Children of Israel worshiping the golden calf not a “copy” God sent along with them. Sounds odd to me.

1. When listing the Ten Commandments, they listed #2 as ‘Do not make engraven images and worship them’. I thought that only non-catholic chruches listed them in this manner. We would include that in with the first commandment. That’s how the Catechism puts them. Have any of you seen this?

Oh yes. It’s how the Protestants number the 10 Commandments specifically to emphasize the prohibition against creating idols, which certain Protestant groups use against the Church approving the use of statues for devotion. Here is an article about The Ten Commandments from the Catholc Encyclopedia that might help you with this question.

I asked the preist and he said that it’s up to interpretation. Meaning that no one came and interpreted for them. I said to him, ‘That’s because they didn’t have the Holy See? The Magisterium? What do they say?’. Instead of answering me he said I should address this question with the RCIA instructor giving the class. I declined because if he, the pastor, can’t answer the question then what would a lay person say that has any authority? What can we do?

What the priest meant is that the verses originally had no numbers, so how people want to number them is up to how they interpret the verses.

As to his telling you to address the question with your RCIA instructor, all he is telling you is that is for the RCIA instructor to cover as a part of what you are learning. He simply doesn’t want to answer all the questions by everyone in RCIA when he has other things to do. I can’t say how busy he may be nor judge if he should or shouldn’t have tried to give you a fuller explanation, but really, it doesn’t matter how the 10 Commandments are listed. All that matters is our keeping them.

I’m confused, angry and sad. This is how my wife and I feel. Were are not confused about being Catholic, just about what other Catholics are saying and teaching.

Thanks,
Scott

I understand how you feel. The Catholic view of what is important vs. the Protestants view(s) can sometimes be exact opposites, and Catholics, not even priests (especially those with little experience of dealing with Protestants), understand that nor do they realize that you, coming into the Church, don’t just understand short explanations that explain nothing to you, if you see what I mean. I will pray for you and your wife, please pray for me!

 

[Todd_Easton]

The Bible is a little ambiguous as to whether all ten of the Ten Commandments appeared on each of the two stone tablets or some of the Ten Commandments appeared on one stone tablet and some on the other. However, it seems clear that both stone tablets were placed in the Ark of the Covanant: 1"At that time the LORD said to me, `Hew two tables of stone like the first, and come up to me on the mountain, and make an ark of wood. 2And I will write on the tables the words that were on the first tables which you broke, and you shall put them in the ark.’ 3So I made an ark of acacia wood, and hewed two tables of stone like the first, and went up the mountain with the two tables in my hand. 4And he wrote on the tables, as at the first writing, the ten commandments which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain out of the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me. 5Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they are, as the LORD commanded me. (Deuteronomy 10:1-5)

3Behind the second curtain stood a tent called the Holy of Holies, 4having the golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant covered on all sides with gold, which contained a golden urn holding the manna, and Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant; 5above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. (Hebrews 9:3-5)

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Note that Hebrews 9:4 refers to the tablets of the covenant being in the ark.

in which were the gold altar of incense 4 and the ark of the covenant entirely covered with gold. In it were the gold jar containing the manna, the staff of Aaron that had sprouted, and the tablets of the covenant.

this would imply that both tablets were there.

In Exodus you will find that God wrote the first set [Exodus 24:12], which Moses smashed in frustration at the peoples worshipping the Golden Calf Exodus 32:15-19] . God then had Moses write the second set to replace the smashed ones [Exodus 34:1, 27].

 

[super64]

But in your class, where did they support this theory w/ biblical facts?? Where exactly in the bible did it quote that??

Well they didn’t offer any bibilcal facts about keeping both sets, the guy on the video said so Father was in class also. It was during a break when I asked him the question.

Focus on the Family is definitely a Protestant organization. It might be better if your RCIA group was using something by Scott Hahn instead of this series that isn’t Catholic in orientation. I haven’t heard the “God made copy a idea” before and I have a B. A. in Bible from a Pentecostal Bible college (I am a convert to the Catholic Church).

They get funny looks on their faces when I mention Scott Hahn. Some people have heard of him, many have not. My wife and I donated a whole bunch of tapes from the Mary Foundation including Dr. Hahn’s conversion. Over all I get the feeling that we are stepping on peoples toes if we challenge the RCIA staff. Our preist dislikes EWTN, Mother Angelica and frowns on Scott Hahn, I’m guessing that Fr. Corapi ranks as much.

Oh yes. It’s how the Protestants number the 10 Commandments specifically to emphasize the prohibition against creating idols, which certain Protestant groups use against the Church approving the use of statues for devotion. Here is an article about The Ten Commandments from the Catholc Encyclopedia that might help you with this question.

Thanks for the link. In my line of work I sometimes am required to go into non-Catholic churches. I have seen this in Baptists and Methodist, while every Catholic church I’ve been in will not differentiate.

The Bible is a little ambiguous as to whether all ten of the Ten Commandments appeared on each of the two stone tablets or some of the Ten Commandments appeared on one stone tablet and some on the other. However, it seems clear that both stone tablets were placed in the Ark of the Covanant:

This they don’t deny. They claim that one of those tablets was Gods copy and the other was the peoples copy. Both were placed in the Ark. They give know referrences for this. I think it comes from a legalistic point-of-view…contracts and such. I wish they wouldn’t use the term ‘contract’ to define ‘covenant’. The video went into detail about OT sacrifices, blood & bread offerings, etc.

Thank you all for your kind responses and prayers. We will keep you in our prayers as well.

Scott

 

[Thal59]

super64:

Hello,
Happy Lord’s day to you all!

1. Today in my wifes RCIA class, we saw a video on OT bibical studies.(Focus on the family or Focus on the faith, something like that) The narrator said that the 10 Commandments were writing on one and copied on another (by God) then Moses brought them to the people. He explained that in a covenant, one party retained a copy and the other party got the other. God’s copy went with the people, for their holy place was His holy place?(Holy of Holies) Of course, the head of the RCIA program said that the video was Protestant oreinted!?

It sounds like they are saying that God wrote two sets of tablets at the same time, one for the people and one for Himself.(?) There were indeed two sets, but the first was destroyed. God then made a second set that Moses had placed in the ark of the covenant.

Thal59