The Story Of Fatima

[stefany379]

since I am not allowed to speak about Medjugorgie, I will speak about Fatima. They are approved by The church. It is a story where no rules are broken. And the story goes like this:
On October 13, 1917 an unprecedented miracle took place.
For four minutes, the noontime sun spun around giving off various colors, one after the other. If a person at Fatima that day had a white shirt on, it would turn red, green and blue as the sun spun around. It stopped and started again, for four more minutes, this time giving off even more beautiful colors. Then it stopped again. Then it started again.
It danced for about four minutes, then started to plummet to the earth. It looked like it was the end of the world. Many people fell on their knees to ask for mercy of God. It then returned to its original position in the sky.
Besides this, another miracle occured. The 70,000 whose clothing had been drenched from the torrential rainstorm and covered with dirt from standing and kneeling in ankle-deep mud, were instantly dry and clean. Scientists say it would have taken the magnitude of an atomic bomb to dry the people and the land in that instant. Yet noone was injured by this sudden release of energy.
This miracle was witnessed by 70,000 people, Catholics and non-believers alike, and was even reported by the secular and anti-catholic press.
God performed the great miracle of the sun to certify to the world the veracity of the message the Blessed Mother had given to three Portugese children at Fatima. She appeared to these children every month for six consecutive months, and entrusted to them the means of saving very many souls and bringing peace to the entire world.
Why are you obliged to believe the MEssage Our Lady gave at Fatima? To address these issues let me first remind you that each and every Catholic is obliged to do and believe certain things, in order to remain in union with Jesus Christ and the church and in the state of grace. Every Catholic must first of all accept all that is contained in the Deposit of Faith, for as the Catholic profession of faith known as the Creed of St. Athanasius explains: “Whoever wishes to be saved, must above all keep the Catholic faith; for unless a person keeps this faith whole and inviolate, he will without a doubt perish into eternity.”
What then does it mean to hold fast to the Catholic faith, whole and inviolate? What is of the faith? St. Thomas Aquinas tells us that th faith is all that God has revealed: That is everything God has revealed in Scripture and Catholic tradition That is the Catholic faith, and to be saved we are bound to believe it.

I can explain the theological positions next time.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

No one is bound to believe in any private revelation. Apparitions and locutions fall under this.

Just read the Catechism.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

73 God has revealed himself fully by sending his own Son, in whom he has established his covenant for ever. The Son is his Father’s definitive Word; so there will be no further Revelation after him.

And one question, why is this thread posted under the Non-Catholic Religions topic?

 

[stefany379]

No one is bound to believe in any private revelation. Apparitions and locutions fall under this.

Just read the Catechism.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

Christian faith cannot accept “revelations” that claim to surpass or correct the Revelation of which Christ is the fulfillment, as is the case in certain non-Christian religions and also in certain recent sects which base themselves on such “revelations”.

73 God has revealed himself fully by sending his own Son, in whom he has established his covenant for ever. The Son is his Father’s definitive Word; so there will be no further Revelation after him.

And one question, why is this thread posted under the Non-Catholic Religions topic?

so that other people can know what is going on in the world, and that they too may believe. Did you not understand part of the Deposit of Faith? Reread my post again. there are two theological positions which maintain that we are required to believe in the Message Our Lady gave at Fatima. The first argues thatFatima is contained in Sacred Scripture by way of prophecy; thus it would follow that it is part of the Deposit of Faith and we are bound to believe it. This position in today’s climate of skepticism and unbelief may seem to be extreme, but consider for a moment the possibility: In Apocalypse Chapter 12, we read the prophecy of the “Woman clothed with the sun”, who is engaged in battle with the dragon. This “woman” clearly is The Blessed Virgin, In fact, two popes have (name removed by moderator)lied that it is Our Lady of Fatima prophesied there.

 

[carol_marie]

I thought believing in Fatima - and other sighting, approved or otherwise. is “optional.” I specifically asked my Priest about this before I became Catholic.

Stefany, do you believe that both my Priest & the CCC are wrong?

 

[Valke2]

so that other people can know what is going on in the world, and that they too may believe.

It’s not working. Besides, there have already been two recent threads on this subject. You’re entitled to post a third of course. But I agree that the non-Catholic section doesn’t seem to be the place for it. But knock yourself out.

 

[stefany379]

I thought believing in Fatima - and other sighting, approved or otherwise. is “optional.” I specifically asked my Priest about this before I became Catholic.

Stefany, do you believe that both my Priest & the CCC are wrong?

optional if you do not read the story and research it. But to know the Whole story and not believe, well I do not know how one cannot believe after 70,000 people witnessed it. Are you saying that 70,000 people are wrong? You need to read the story before you “ask” anyone and judge for yourself. Where in the CCC does it say that Fatima is a myth?

 

[stefany379]

It’s not working. Besides, there have already been two recent threads on this subject. You’re entitled to post a third of course. But I agree that the non-Catholic section doesn’t seem to be the place for it. But knock yourself out.

I will knock myself out because my beliefs are very strong. Other faiths need to know the story, therefore, they can judge for themselves. Although there have been two other sights, there won’t be one like this one.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

so that other people can know what is going on in the world, and that they too may believe. Did you not understand part of the Deposit of Faith? Reread my post again. there are two theological positions which maintain that we are required to believe in the Message Our Lady gave at Fatima. The first argues thatFatima is contained in Sacred Scripture by way of prophecy; thus it would follow that it is part of the Deposit of Faith and we are bound to believe it. This position in today’s climate of skepticism and unbelief may seem to be extreme, but consider for a moment the possibility: In Apocalypse Chapter 12, we read the prophecy of the “Woman clothed with the sun”, who is engaged in battle with the dragon. This “woman” clearly is The Blessed Virgin, In fact, two popes have (name removed by moderator)lied that it is Our Lady of Fatima prophesied there.

Yes I understand what the Deposit of Faith is, at least as it is defined by the Church though the Catechism.

Private revelations are not part of the Deposit of Faith and not only are they optional to believe in for a faithful Catholic, a faithful Cahtolic can actually not believe in them and still be a Catholic.

Fatima is not contained in Sacred Scripture by “prophecy” in any way. If it is then just the belief in Scared Scripture is enough, we do not need the extra.

You seem to go against what the Church actually teaches in this regard. I will stand with the Church.

 

[stefany379]

Yes I understand what the Deposit of Faith is, at least as it is defined by the Church though the Catechism.

Private revelations are not part of the Deposit of Faith and not only are they optional to believe in for a faithful Catholic, a faithful Cahtolic can actually not believe in them and still be a Catholic.

Fatima is not contained in Sacred Scripture by “prophecy” in any way. If it is then just the belief in Scared Scripture is enough, we do not need the extra.

You seem to go against what the Church actually teaches in this regard. I will stand with the Church.

you are wrong. the other theological position arguing that we must believe the message of Fatima bases its arguement on the fact that Fatima is a public, prophetic revelation. this stands in direct opposition to the “Fatima is a private revelation” arguement, which asserts that we are not bound to believe the Message because private revelations, which are by definition unverifiable, are not binding on anyone except the individual to whom the message was given.
Fatima, however, is not unverifiable, and itsnot a message for one individual. It’s a public message given to the whole church and verified by a public miracle and public prophecies. And the message states that the consequences of ignoring Our Lady’s requests at Fatima are disastrous for all. Fatima is a public, prophetic revelation and as such, once the church has examined it and found it worthy of belief, Natural Law and Sacred Scripture tell us what we must do. St. Paul writes in 1 Thess 5:19-21 “Do not extinguish the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. But test all things and hold fast to that which is good.”

 

[M-Dent]

Stefany, Church teaching has been clear that private revelation does not rise to the level of the Gospel (at anytime after Christ) or does not belong to the deposit of faith.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called “private” revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation, but to help live more fully by it in a certain period of history. Guided by the Magisterium of the Church, the sensus fidelium knows how to discern and welcome in these revelations whatever constitutes an authentic call of Christ or his saints to the Church.

The events at Fatima is a rich source of grace for the world. There’s little doubt about that.

I happen to believe Fatima was an authenticate miracle from God. Yet, after reading much on the subject I have not been convinced the interpretation offered by the Church gives the ‘full meaning.’ But that’s ok. I am not required to put such events on the level of the Gospel.


The Message of Fatima

1. The authority of private revelations is essentially different from that of the definitive public Revelation. The latter demands faith; in it in fact God himself speaks to us through human words and the mediation of the living community of the Church. Faith in God and in his word is different from any other human faith, trust or opinion. The certainty that it is God who is speaking gives me the assurance that I am in touch with truth itself. It gives me a certitude which is beyond verification by any human way of knowing. It is the certitude upon which I build my life and to which I entrust myself in dying.

1. Private revelation is a help to this faith, and shows its credibility precisely by leading me back to the definitive public Revelation. In this regard, Cardinal Prospero Lambertini, the future Pope Benedict XIV, says in his classic treatise, which later became normative for beatifications and canonizations: “An assent of Catholic faith is not due to revelations approved in this way; it is not even possible. These revelations seek rather an assent of human faith in keeping with the requirements of prudence, which puts them before us as probable and credible to piety”. The Flemish theologian E. Dhanis, an eminent scholar in this field, states succinctly that ecclesiastical approval of a private revelation has three elements: the message contains nothing contrary to faith or morals; it is lawful to make it public; and the faithful are authorized to accept it with prudence (E. Dhanis,Sguardo su Fatima e bilancio di una discussione, in La Civiltà Cattolica 104 [1953], II, 392-406, in particular 397). Such a message can be a genuine help in understanding the Gospel and living it better at a particular moment in time; therefore it should not be disregarded. It is a help which is offered, but which one is not obliged to use.

 

[carol_marie]

optional if you do not read the story and research it. But to know the Whole story and not believe, well I do not know how one cannot believe after 70,000 people witnessed it. Are you saying that 70,000 people are wrong? You need to read the story before you “ask” anyone and judge for yourself. Where in the CCC does it say that Fatima is a myth?

I never said it was a myth. It may be true… it’s probably true. But one can still be a good Catholic and have no feelings whatsoever about it.

I especially like this section of the CCC:

73 God has revealed himself fully by sending his own Son, in whom he has established his covenant for ever. The Son is his Father’s definitive Word; so there will be no further Revelation after him.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

you are wrong.

In your opinion. That is you think I am wrong.

In the eyes of the Church I am not wrong and as I have said, I will stand with the Church on this matter rather than on your authority.

In the eyes of the Church you are wrong.

Fatima, as with all appraitions, is not part of the Deposit of Faith.

 

[4HisChurch]

Stephany, are you saying that because Fatima contains prophesy that it is part of Scripture and therefore must be believed?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Stephany, are you saying that because Fatima contains prophesy that it is part of Scripture and therefore must be believed?

If this is actually the reason then it just shows how wrong it is as it goes against what the Church teaches.

To say that Fatima is part of public revelation because of the prophesy it contains is to say that public revelation before Fatima was lacking, which is not true.

 

[4HisChurch]

If this is actually the reason then it just shows how wrong it is as it goes against what the Church teaches.

To say that Fatima is part of public revelation because of the prophesy it contains is to say that public revelation before Fatima was lacking, which is not true.

Right. And “public revelation before Fatima” is the Bible.
Further, Fatima itself, and all apparitions, are private revelation, not public revelation.

 

[jasm]

Yes I understand what the Deposit of Faith is, at least as it is defined by the Church though the Catechism.

Private revelations are not part of the Deposit of Faith and not only are they optional to believe in for a faithful Catholic, a faithful Cahtolic can actually not believe in them and still be a Catholic.

Fatima is not contained in Sacred Scripture by “prophecy” in any way. If it is then just the belief in Scared Scripture is enough, we do not need the extra.

You seem to go against what the Church actually teaches in this regard. I will stand with the Church.

I too will stand with the Church!
stefany379, while at first you come across as very interested in the faith and apparitions, you seem to turn hostile and make inflamatory remarks when questioned, called on the carpet, or disagreed with. Remarks such as:
Originally Posted by stefany379 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
optional if you do not read the story and research it. But to know the Whole story and not believe, well I do not know how one cannot believe after 70,000 people witnessed it. Are you saying that 70,000 people are wrong? You need to read the story before you “ask” anyone and judge for yourself. Where in the CCC does it say that Fatima is a myth?
are inflamatory. Didn’t you have a thread you started removed just last night? It is NOT necessary or required to believe in apparitions of our Blessed Mother to be a good Catholic or for eternal salvation. Why are you coming across as an apparition bully???

 

[Della]

you are wrong. the other theological position arguing that we must believe the message of Fatima bases its arguement on the fact that Fatima is a public, prophetic revelation. this stands in direct opposition to the “Fatima is a private revelation” arguement, which asserts that we are not bound to believe the Message because private revelations, which are by definition unverifiable, are not binding on anyone except the individual to whom the message was given.
Fatima, however, is not unverifiable, and itsnot a message for one individual. It’s a public message given to the whole church and verified by a public miracle and public prophecies. And the message states that the consequences of ignoring Our Lady’s requests at Fatima are disastrous for all. Fatima is a public, prophetic revelation and as such, once the church has examined it and found it worthy of belief, Natural Law and Sacred Scripture tell us what we must do. St. Paul writes in 1 Thess 5:19-21 “Do not extinguish the Spirit. Do not despise prophecies. But test all things and hold fast to that which is good.”

I’m afraid you’re whole argument is based on a major misunderstanding of what the Church means by private vs. public revelation. Just because many people witness something does NOT make it public. It is still private as far as the Church is concerned because all public revelation ended with Christ, who is the final Word to humanity. Every revelation following Christ and the Apostles can only be said to be private no matter if every living person in the world were to see an apparition, it would still be classified as private and not binding on the faithful.

And any prophecy after Christ is not a fulfillment of Scripture. Only Christ’s Second Coming will fulfill Scripture and nothing else.

A very good book on the subject is Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s “A Still, Small Voice” in which he carefully explains what the difference is between private and public revelation and what Catholics are required to believe regarding both. I highly recommend you read it.

 

[4HisChurch]

I’ve read Fr. Benedict Groeschel’s book and I highly recommend it as well. I agree with jasm: stand with the Church.

 

[Karin]

I agree with jasm: stand with the Church.

I too stand with Jasm and the Church

 

[puzzleannie]

Why are you obliged to believe the MEssage Our Lady gave at Fatima? . .

no Catholic is obliged to believe the message Our Lady gave at Fatima, or to believe any other private revelation. They have permission to believe it because the events have Church approval, but they are not obliged to believe.