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Epistemes
Guest
Then I won’t get help, I’ll get out.
- Status
J
JReducation
Guest
Then go back to your confessor, the one that ou said you like. Talk to him more and see what he can suggest.
Never give up on yourself. God doesn’t.
Pray for us.
Fraternally,
JR
J
JReducation
Guest
Then go back to your confessor, the one that you said you like. Talk to him more and see what he can suggest.
Never give up on yourself. God doesn’t.
Pray for us.
Fraternally,
JR
E
Epistemes
Guest
I gave up 9 hours ago.
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littleone
Guest
What ever gave you that thought of being a nut case, I havent seen in your thread, it surely was not God. From the beginning you have told people about your sad situation, may I say , seemingly with the idea of gaining help or enlightening you of your knowing if there is a problem!
But now I see that this all seems to have a different slant. What exactly are you looking for, no none can assist or come to your side if they do not know exactly what you are wanting?
Godbless
J
JReducation
Guest
Sometimes a soul presents itself before God’s people knowing that he is in need, searching, yearning, but not always knowing what he is searching for, for what he yearns, much less what he needs.
The blessing that comes from the communion of saints is that we have been given the grace to hang in there with such a soul and wait for the Holy Spirit to reveal the need.
The greatest act of charity toward a neighbor is often rooted in our own poverty, said our Holy Father St. Francis. Feeling that we cannot offer any consolation or support to this brother, because we have no idea what he needs, is an experience of our own poverty.
There is nothing more beautiful in the spiritual life than to be filled with a sense of poverty, because it unites us further with the crucified Christ.
Maybe this is what Epistemes needs and why he was sent here, so that we can experience the poverty of not knowing how to help, so that we can unite our poverty to that of Christ on the Cross, especially as we celebrate the the Exultation of the Cross or in some countries, The Triumph of the Cross.
Fraternally,
JR
L
littleone
Guest
I can no other than agree with you and why I wrote that is because I could feel the darkness the unknown, the rejection, It all seems so very questioning that if I was able I would offer it up to Jesus as part of my past and then lie the whole situation at the feet of Jesus on the cross as I have done often.Sometimes a soul presents itself before God’s people knowing that he is in need, searching, yearning, but not always knowing what he is searching for, for what he yearns, much less what he needs.The blessing that comes from the communion of saints is that we have been given the grace to hang in there with such a soul and wait for the Holy Spirit to reveal the need.The greatest act of charity toward a neighbor is often rooted in our own poverty, said our Holy Father St. Francis. Feeling that we cannot offer any consolation or support to this brother, because we have no idea what he needs, is an experience of our own poverty.There is nothing more beautiful in the spiritual life than to be filled with a sense of poverty, because it unites us further with the crucified Christ.
Maybe this is what Epistemes needs and why he was sent here, so that we can experience the poverty of not knowing how to help, so that we can unite our poverty to that of Christ on the Cross, especially as we celebrate the the Exultation of the Cross or in some countries, The Triumph of the Cross.
Fraternally,JR
I hope the person comes out from their place of rejection ( if I may call it that)
Thank you for that.
Godbless
L
littleone
Guest
May I ask what you gave up 9 hours ago?
Was it the spiritual or the human side or both?
Then again, really are we able to truly give up the whole of it? I wonder?
Godbless
J
JReducation
Guest
I also wonder.
In any case, it’s a great consolation to know that God does not give up on us.
Fraternally,
JR
M
Mark_Robert
Guest
I’m not going to whitewash things for you.You’ve tasted the forbidden fruit of pornography and lust through the misuse of your free will for years and years. You did what was wrong repeatedly and now you’re trapped by it. Are you surprised that you now have a tremendous struggle on your hands? The justice of God requires that you suffer penance in resisting temptation to compensate for the years of illict pleasure you’ve enjoyed. It’s called temporal punishment for sin. Not all temporal punishment is forgiven when mortal sin is wiped away. There’s still the residual attraction and attachment to sin which must be fought valiantly against through prayer, grim determination and the grace of the sacraments. The gospel says that a man should not embark upon a war without first counting the cost. The way of the gospel requires terrible sacrifice. Make no mistake about it. It is the straight and narrow way. The way of the cross for you is the crucifixion of your lusts. It’s clear that God has pathed the way to glory for you through the stigmata of self-denial.
J
JReducation
Guest
The spiritual life is not always so black and white. Read John Paul II’s Theology of the Body or Francis’ of Assisi on God’s Love.
Fraternally,
JR
J
Joysong
Guest
JR:
An alcoholic will never get over drink until he takes that first step and deals with the firm decision to pick up the painful cross of absolute abstinence, live only one 24-hour day at a time, and seek outside help such as AA. I can agree that sexual addiction is not the same as a chemical dependency, but it is very addicting, nevertheless, and requires strict custody of the eyes, denial of stimuli such as porn, and thoughts that are known to trigger a relapse, along with daily recourse to prayer and frequenting the sacraments. Most helpful and necessary is spiritual reading of books that encourage fidelity, love of God, and striving for virtue.
May all who are caught in this web have the courage and determination to take that most important first step.
In many respects, I agree with Mark that addiction as severe and longstanding as this, cannot be whitewashed and requires a radical remedy. We cannot just tell someone to simply keep praying, or try different spiritual remedies, unless we couple that with direction that deals with the addiction.
An alcoholic will never get over drink until he takes that first step and deals with the firm decision to pick up the painful cross of absolute abstinence, live only one 24-hour day at a time, and seek outside help such as AA. I can agree that sexual addiction is not the same as a chemical dependency, but it is very addicting, nevertheless, and requires strict custody of the eyes, denial of stimuli such as porn, and thoughts that are known to trigger a relapse, along with daily recourse to prayer and frequenting the sacraments. Most helpful and necessary is spiritual reading of books that encourage fidelity, love of God, and striving for virtue.
May all who are caught in this web have the courage and determination to take that most important first step.
J
JReducation
Guest
This is all true. But as trained spiritual directors tell you, you must also factor in moral theology, developmental psychology, other DSM-IV criteria, along with prayer, sacraments, spiritual direction, therapy, support groups and a radical change of life.
One of the best in this field was John Paul II and Edith Stein. They had a very healthy and hollistic approach to human sexuality and sexual problems. The best part of their approach is that it was very gentle and non confrontational. They used an intellectual approach similar to that of St. Ignatius. They guided the soul, heart, body and mind toward change and integration.
The other person who has a very good approach to problems with human sexuality is Francis of Assisi. Again, his approach is very non confrontational. In fact, he forbids that his sons and daughters be confrontational on any kind of sin. All sinners must be treated with great charity, kind words, fraternal correction and guidance. He would say that one must never point to the source of the sin, but to God’s love for the sinner and encourage the sinner to respond to that great love which is beyond anything that we can imagine. In fact Fr. Corapi was quoting Francis approach to sin and sinner as the model of all Catholics just last night in one of his programs.
The tendency in the average person is to practice tough love. More and more we’re discovering that tough love can be over rated. People need to be guided, educated, and taught how to begin a life of contemplation that combines sacraments, silence, prayer, penance, spiritual direction, counseling (when needed) and fraternal support (from Christians or a support group or both).
The area of the Spiritual Life is not a simple area of theology. That’s why most priests and deacons do not study it and most seminaries offer it as a separate degree program. The Church recognizes that some people have been gifted with the guidance of souls, such as a Catherine of Siena, John Vianney, Francisco de Osuna, Philip Neri, Teresa of Avila, Therese of Liseux, Mother Teresa of Calcutta, Joh Paul II and others. It also recognizes that the guidance of souls at such a deep level is not for everyone. Those who do not have the God-given insight into souls must learn this science through many years of study and under strict supervision of masters.
I recently ran into a secular priest who said that he could not do more than basic spiritual direction, but that when the life of the directee crossed over into deeper levels of the spiritual journey he was not trained to do it. The average seminarian trains to run parishes and to do parish ministry. The care of souls and the guidance of souls are overlapping, but at the same time require much study and time. Four years in the seminary is not enough to get both in. So seminaries focus on the care of souls which is pastoral care and leave the guidance of souls to those who want to return later or to lay people who want to train in this discipline.
Members of the monastic and mendicant orders have an advantage. They spend six years studying mysticism and the spritual life before they can profess solemn vows. If you live in a parish that is staffed by mendicants or monks, you have religious who are trained to guide souls and to deal with problems such as this brother presents.
What he needs is to find a spiritual master or director who is actually trained to guide him through the steps. and coordinate it all to make sure that it is in keeping with the Church’s theology of the body and its theology of the spiritual life and moral theology.
Unless we are trained in these fields, we must be careful with the feedback that we dispense via the internet. For this reason I often discourage those who need spiritual direction from posting their issues on the internet. People want to help and are going to respond. The response may help or do more harm, because the two persons are not sitting in the same room gauging each other’s response.
Fraternal,
JR
A
Augustine
Guest
Epistemes,
Your confessor is quite right. You must learn to look at women beyond their bodies, but as daughters of God.
It seems that you’re not a father yourself, but as a man you can fathom that you’d hate if other men would lust after your daughter, had you one, like you do other women. Therefore, you have an idea how our Father in Heaven feels when you lust after one of His daughters.
HTH
Your confessor is quite right. You must learn to look at women beyond their bodies, but as daughters of God.
It seems that you’re not a father yourself, but as a man you can fathom that you’d hate if other men would lust after your daughter, had you one, like you do other women. Therefore, you have an idea how our Father in Heaven feels when you lust after one of His daughters.
HTH
J
JReducation
Guest
This is truth. Love must give way to love. We must love God who is love and in loving God we must love that which God loves. and see it through his eyes.Epistemes,
Your confessor is quite right. You must learn to look at women beyond their bodies, but as daughters of God.
It seems that you’re not a father yourself, but as a man you can fathom that you’d hate if other men would lust after your daughter, had you one, like you do other women. Therefore, you have an idea how our Father in Heaven feels when you lust after one of His daughters.
HTH
Thus we must see men and women through the eyes of Gdo as if they were our own children.
Fraternally,
JR
J
Joysong
Guest
JR:
You mention St. Teresa of Avila, one of my very favorite saints. In her writings, we learn that the most important thing of all, in her opinion, is to have “determination.” Without that trait, we flounder and never amend our lives. She spoke about poor confessors who made little of her faults, as well as those who had been overly strict and asked more of her than she could comply with. As for being gentle, you may want to read her lesser known work on the foundations where she was unyielding with sufferers of melancholia. Her treatment of these souls was anything but gentle … it would shock you!
I am presently reading Osuna, who is always good for me to return to, and I welcome his approach that does not sugarcoat but insists strongly about ‘guarding the heart at all costs, for out of it are the very issues of life.’
Another very gentle and meek saint was St. Francis de Sales. Yet when he discussed temptations against purity, we find that he was rigorous in his insistence that these be severed at the root.
Mark Robert’s words above are worth a second look, especially as we celebrate today the Exaltation of the Cross, our hope of victory, but it must be embraced.
JR, with my deepest respect for 99% of your posts and threads, I just have to disagree here. Nonconfrontational, and very gentle approaches will often prolong the matter. I now have a confessor who calls my sins as they are and gives me advice to overcome them. One that I went to previously, was prone to overlook my failings, saying to me, “Oh don’t we all do that. Don’t worry about it.”
You mention St. Teresa of Avila, one of my very favorite saints. In her writings, we learn that the most important thing of all, in her opinion, is to have “determination.” Without that trait, we flounder and never amend our lives. She spoke about poor confessors who made little of her faults, as well as those who had been overly strict and asked more of her than she could comply with. As for being gentle, you may want to read her lesser known work on the foundations where she was unyielding with sufferers of melancholia. Her treatment of these souls was anything but gentle … it would shock you!
I am presently reading Osuna, who is always good for me to return to, and I welcome his approach that does not sugarcoat but insists strongly about ‘guarding the heart at all costs, for out of it are the very issues of life.’
Another very gentle and meek saint was St. Francis de Sales. Yet when he discussed temptations against purity, we find that he was rigorous in his insistence that these be severed at the root.
I suspect those who may be most able to help the OP are those who have been broken and wounded by this same evil compulsion and rose to the new life of grace. It begins with fierce determination aimed at abstinence.
Mark Robert’s words above are worth a second look, especially as we celebrate today the Exaltation of the Cross, our hope of victory, but it must be embraced.
J
JReducation
Guest
CAF is not the place to discuss this kind of condition. CAF has no one on their staff trained in Spiritual Direction. To the best of my knowledge it has only one theologian, Fr. Vincent. The others are apologists. The spiritual life is not their area, because it’s a specialty in theology. They mods can’t tell if we’re doing or saying the right thing either, because they’re not mystical theologians. They can only moderate to make sure that everyone behaves and stays on topic. There are too many possibilities here and I urge that respondents err on the side of caution.
To posters I would suggest that one not bring this kind of issue to CAF forums. People want to help, but without good background information and other very confidential data, they may not offer what one needs. Sometimes we don’t know what we need. There are special organizations for this kind of problem who have interactive support systems online. I would suggest that the OP look at those, as well as a good spiritual director and Catholic counselor.
It is true that the Mystics talk a tough talk, but their sons and daughters often found them to be the most gentle guides and the greatest witnesses of Christ’s meekness and humility.
Only a good spritual director can gauge how to respond to this kind of problem and how to redirect the directee. There are also good self-help groups and 12-step programs for people with addictions.
The Church treats addictions very differently from isolated sins. A confessor or Spiritual Director trained in the development of the soul can tell the difference. It would take too long for me to show the difference on CAF.
Since we do not know the OP nor can we see the impact of our words, I highly recommend that we take the gentle road and help the person find resources.
Fraternally,
JR
To posters I would suggest that one not bring this kind of issue to CAF forums. People want to help, but without good background information and other very confidential data, they may not offer what one needs. Sometimes we don’t know what we need. There are special organizations for this kind of problem who have interactive support systems online. I would suggest that the OP look at those, as well as a good spiritual director and Catholic counselor.
It is true that the Mystics talk a tough talk, but their sons and daughters often found them to be the most gentle guides and the greatest witnesses of Christ’s meekness and humility.
Only a good spritual director can gauge how to respond to this kind of problem and how to redirect the directee. There are also good self-help groups and 12-step programs for people with addictions.
The Church treats addictions very differently from isolated sins. A confessor or Spiritual Director trained in the development of the soul can tell the difference. It would take too long for me to show the difference on CAF.
Since we do not know the OP nor can we see the impact of our words, I highly recommend that we take the gentle road and help the person find resources.
Fraternally,
JR
L
littleone
Guest
Hi Joy song
J
JReducation
Guest
I just believe that CAF is a horrible place to bring matters of conscience, unless your posting to AAA. Any other sub-thread is going to give you as many opinions as are available on the face of the earth and you’ll never know which is right.
Even when you respond according the the writings of the Church, you must always remember that the Church does not always stick to those writings as if they were etched in stone when it comes to moral material. Those writings are meant to be objective and to speak about sins, not about people who are in sin or may believe they are in sin.
That job is done in the confessional and in spiritual direction where you can get more details and the contact with the person helps you read into what is going on inside the soul with a litle more certitude.
Even the mystics and great doctors often wrote one thing and did another. I guess it’s the old idea that once you put a name and a face on a stituation, things take on a different perspective and you deal with it accordingly.
We all know that people like Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Siena, Francis de Sales, just to name a few, wrote very tough treatises on sin. Yet their historians tell us that when push came to shove, they were the most gentle parents when they met sinners. They were almost embarrassed to call someone else a sinner, because they felt that no one was as a great a sinner as they were. Unlike Roosevelt, they did not carry a big stick, just a cross of love for the sinner.
I don’t see much of that on CAF. There is a very radical element that is taking over on CAF that wants to crucify everyone. We are swinging from indiferrentism and relativism toward radical literalism. What is unfortunate is that the majority of the people who represent these extremes do not represent the Catholic Church well.
The Church is neither relativist nor literal extremist. She is very much like her incarnate founder, very human and divine. At times she can be a demanding parent and at times a nurturing one. Both are good, because we need both.
But I have seen very little of this side of the Church on CAF. There are some posters who are very balanced. But they are not representative of CAFers. Therefore, I strongly suggest that this type of question be taken to AAA or to a local spiritual director or Christian counselor.
That’s just my opinion for whatever it’s worth. If the OP looks on the AAA sub-forum there are links to Christian sites that help with these issues.
Fraternally,
JR
Even when you respond according the the writings of the Church, you must always remember that the Church does not always stick to those writings as if they were etched in stone when it comes to moral material. Those writings are meant to be objective and to speak about sins, not about people who are in sin or may believe they are in sin.
That job is done in the confessional and in spiritual direction where you can get more details and the contact with the person helps you read into what is going on inside the soul with a litle more certitude.
Even the mystics and great doctors often wrote one thing and did another. I guess it’s the old idea that once you put a name and a face on a stituation, things take on a different perspective and you deal with it accordingly.
We all know that people like Francis of Assisi, Teresa of Avila, Catherine of Siena, Francis de Sales, just to name a few, wrote very tough treatises on sin. Yet their historians tell us that when push came to shove, they were the most gentle parents when they met sinners. They were almost embarrassed to call someone else a sinner, because they felt that no one was as a great a sinner as they were. Unlike Roosevelt, they did not carry a big stick, just a cross of love for the sinner.
I don’t see much of that on CAF. There is a very radical element that is taking over on CAF that wants to crucify everyone. We are swinging from indiferrentism and relativism toward radical literalism. What is unfortunate is that the majority of the people who represent these extremes do not represent the Catholic Church well.
The Church is neither relativist nor literal extremist. She is very much like her incarnate founder, very human and divine. At times she can be a demanding parent and at times a nurturing one. Both are good, because we need both.
But I have seen very little of this side of the Church on CAF. There are some posters who are very balanced. But they are not representative of CAFers. Therefore, I strongly suggest that this type of question be taken to AAA or to a local spiritual director or Christian counselor.
That’s just my opinion for whatever it’s worth. If the OP looks on the AAA sub-forum there are links to Christian sites that help with these issues.
Fraternally,
JR
L
littleone
Guest
- Status