"The sufficiency of Grace" a continuation of "The sufficiency of Christ" family debate.

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Rocket_Man said:
let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Did Noah have a good conscience toward God? Is that why he was saved by the Water?
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Scripture attests that he acted in the obedience of faith. It was accounted to him as righteousness.
 
guanophore said:
Do you believe that the waters of baptism clean the evil conscience?
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I believe the sprinkling of blood is what cleaned. We can now ride along with Noah because of our good conscience towards God.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
 
Rocket_Man said:
I believe the sprinkling of blood is what cleaned. We can now ride along with Noah because of our good conscience towards God.
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Yes, the sprinkling of blood. His work on the cross is applied to each of us when we are joined into His death as we are buried in baptism. John’s baptism was for the remission of sins. How did that work?
Rocket_Man said:
And wouldn’t faith include a “good conscience towards God”.?
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No. There is nothing humans can do to be clean in the sight of a righteous God.
 
Rocket_Man said:
Sorry, isn’t the byproduct of saving faith “a good conscience towards God”? Like Abraham?
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Yes, but it happens because our faith mixes with His grace. It is grace that cleans our conscience. This grace is active during baptism, where we are washed of all sins, original adn personal.
 
guanophore said:
John’s baptism was for the remission of sins. How did that work?
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Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
 
Rocket_Man said:
Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
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So, John’s baptism was effective for the remission of sins because of what Jesus would do in the future?
 
guanophore said:
So, John’s baptism was effective for the remission of sins because of what Jesus would do in the future?
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And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
 
guanophore said:
Num 19:18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and shall dip it in the water, and shall sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched the bone, or the slain, or the dead, or the grave.

I think you are talking about the blood and water that flowed from the side of Christ on the cross. I am not making a connection to the thread topic, though. :confused:
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“For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Law, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people”

“For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
 
Rocket_Man said:
They will claim that they also were not regenerated. My parents will stand with me and claim that their infant baptism and mine was meaningless. And where were my baptismal sponsers, I haven’t even met them? Why, because they weren’t serious about thier commitment as they weren’t regenerated either. The whole system is flawed.
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Amen tro that. Mine did the same.
 
Rocket_Man said:
“This sacrament is the door of the Church of Christ and the entrance into a new life. We are reborn from the state of slaves of sin into the freedom of the Sons of God. Baptism incorporates us with Christ’s mystical body and makes us partakers of all the privileges flowing from the redemptive act of the Church’s Divine Founder.”*

We take full responsibilty for our sins before regeneration and after. However for all of us regeneration did not begin with the Catholic baptism. Rather, it began after we left the church and learned of Jesus Christ through His Living Word.
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Right on Rocket. I never learned Jesus when I was a child. I learned all the things you were supposed to do, but never the why.
 
Carlan said:
tweetymom;6049955:
G’morn Tweety, I was sorry that Rocket man left the Church for what ever reason and my prayer for him is that one day he will return home to the fullness of what Christ has for him.
Many of us in the Church ,for what ever reason again, were raised in nominal Catholic homes and for the most part the blame did not lay at the door of Christs Church.We thank God for the actual grace which brought us back to Him and his Church and ask him to continue to guide us and lead us into all truth until we are finally saved and with him forever in heaven.:)Carlan
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I do not per se blame any one particular thing, or person. I did not get my first Communion until I was 11. Then the Nuns ridiculed me because I was so old and talked unkindly of my parents who had divorced when I was 3. Now it left a lasting effect on my life then and even now. I was only taught what I had to do in Mass in class, never the reason things are done. Nothing Biblical. So my first communion was just an act of of doing it because the Nuns said so.

I did not come into the full knowledge of Christ until I was 35 and that thru BSF and a very personal and life changing experience with Jesus. It was an earth moving experience for me, something I had never felt before. Got into a very intense Bible study joined a Church and learned about God for the very first time in my life.

I have never been too concerned about this Church or that Church, because that as believers we are the Church, and if you don’t take Jesus with you the name on the door does not mean a thing. I do not get involved in most laws of this and that or this Tradition or that tradition, I believe in Jesus and that He died on the cross to save me.

So I am going to say as Timothy said in another thread. Thank you for all the critism I consider it a blessing.
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tweetymom said:
Carlan;6050282:
I do not per se blame any one particular thing, or person. I did not get my first Communion until I was 11. Then the Nuns ridiculed me because I was so old and talked unkindly of my parents who had divorced when I was 3. Now it left a lasting effect on my life then and even now. I was only taught what I had to do in Mass in class, never the reason things are done. Nothing Biblical. So my first communion was just an act of of doing it because the Nuns said so.

I did not come into the full knowledge of Christ until I was 35 and that thru BSF and a very personal and life changing experience with Jesus. It was an earth moving experience for me, something I had never felt before. Got into a very intense Bible study joined a Church and learned about God for the very first time in my life.

I have never been too concerned about this Church or that Church, because that as believers we are the Church, and if you don’t take Jesus with you the name on the door does not mean a thing. I do not get involved in most laws of this and that or this Tradition or that tradition, I believe in Jesus and that He died on the cross to save me.

So I am going to say as Timothy said in another thread. Thank you for all the critism I consider it a blessing.
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I am sorry you believe I was criticizing in my post, It wasn’t meant that way. May God bless you and your family during Advent time and have a blessed Christmas. :)Carlan
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Carlan said:
tweetymom;6050319:
I am sorry you believe I was criticizing in my post, It wasn’t meant that way. May God bless you and your family during Advent time and have a blessed Christmas. :)Carlan
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May you and your family have a most Blessed Christmas and all good things according to our Savior.
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Carlan said:
tweetymom;6049955:
G’morn Tweety, I was sorry that Rocket man left the Church for what ever reason and my prayer for him is that one day he will return home to the fullness of what Christ has for him.
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I have followed and participated in Mormon blogs for a few years now. It has amazed me that even with all the supporting evidence, most Mormans who fall away cannot take the one final step and send in the official letter to remove themselves from the LDS church. Somewhere always hanging over them is the hammer of the church, that declares the same fullness and truthfulness as the CC.

I often find myself wanting to drift back to where I came from. But I’m not going to get caught up in my childhood persuasion, nor let the CC bloggers that try to yield the same hammer over the head to convince me to return.

tweetymom…I rejoiced with a tear when I read you had turned to Him earlier in life. You know who you are in Christ Jesus. May He continue to purify your heart through His grace.
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Rocket_Man said:
Carlan;6050282:
I have followed and participated in Mormon blogs for a few years now. It has amazed me that even with all the supporting evidence, most Mormans who fall away cannot take the one final step and send in the official letter to remove themselves from the LDS church. Somewhere always hanging over them is the hammer of the church, that declares the same fullness and truthfulness as the CC.

I often find myself wanting to drift back to where I came from. But I’m not going to get caught up in my childhood persuasion, nor let the CC bloggers that try to yield the same hammer over the head to convince me to return.

tweetymom…I rejoiced with a tear when I read you had turned to Him earlier in life. You know who you are in Christ Jesus. May He continue to purify your heart through His grace.
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And the same back at ya Rocket Man. And Gods richest Blessing to you and your family now and all year long!
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I will pour out water upon the thirsty ground, and streams upon the dry land; I will pour out my spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing upon your descendants. (Isa 44:3)

for John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the holy Spirit." (Acts 1:5)

‘It will come to pass in the last days,’ God says, 'that I will pour out a portion of my spirit upon all flesh. Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, your old men shall dream dreams. Indeed, upon my servants and my handmaids I will pour out a portion of my spirit in those days, and they shall prophesy. (Act 2:17-18)

Exalted at the right hand of God, he received the promise of the holy Spirit from the Father and poured it forth, as you (both) see and hear. (Acts 2:33)

Peter (said) to them, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the holy Spirit. (Acts 2:38)
 
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