The supposed "Great Apostacy"

[Jon_S_1]

Except the LDS church believes that John is still present on the earth and never lost the priesthood, along with the 3 nephites so what exactly were these 4 people doing during the 1800+ years of apostacy? why weren’t they converting people, or keeping alive the sacraments? Or better yet, keep the church afloat.

Because, don’t take this wrong, but because it’s all made up.

There was no Great Apostacy although I at least give credit that the Mormons had to believe this in order to deny the teachings of the early church.

Where is the evidence of these Hebrew nations in North America?

Why no DNA link in native Americans to Hebrew people?

Where did the Bible come from? Collected during the Apostacy some how?

I have Mormon family. I love them dearly but it is unbiblical to say Jesus abandoned his church and there is no reason to believe in the man made authority of the LDS church.

Continue your search for the truth.

We have writings from the early bishops who were taught directly by the Apostles. I would suggest you read their works.

God Bless

 

[Jon_S_1]

Here’s the problem with the ‘when the last Apostle (ie John circa 100ish AD) died’ timeline: Clement of Rome and the Didache were already on the books (as legit, not heresy).

And then do you think that Ignatius who sat on Jesus’s knee as a kid, who with Euodius was appointed bishop in Antioch is gonna jack up the faith?

So if Ignatius is legit, and Polycarp is legit, and Clement is legit, and the Didache is legit and they are all Catholic in theology…well…then I guess it’s time to swim the Tiber.

Just a clarification because I fully agree with you, but Ignatius heard John preach as a child, he was born after Jesus.

He was well acquainted with Polycarp as a contemporary.

 

[iepuras]

I agree! Growing up, I was told I would see the last days, they were upon us and it was seriously implied I may not even have children before it happened. The way they made it sound was, if I was not perfect, I would burn. This is terrifying to a kid!

Now, I understand, He will come when He comes and no one will know until it happens. We just need to do our best in this life so we can return to Him, whether it be in heaven, or during His return.

I am in my mid-30’s and we were taught this load of horse manure back when I was a teen in the LDS church. We were a “chosen” and “rising” generation, and in the celestial kingdom, everyone would be so impressed with us because we were alive during this time. Well, they are telling the same load to the teens now.

Yeah, I was so worried about not being perfect as a teen, I didn’t want Jesus to return!

 

[xpirategrrlx]

Continue your search for the truth.

God Bless

And continue, I shall!

Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. It’s nice to know I’m not the only LDS who has had a problem with it! (Hence, my search for the truth!)

 

[xpirategrrlx]

I am in my mid-30’s and we were taught this load of horse manure back when I was a teen in the LDS church. We were a “chosen” and “rising” generation, and in the celestial kingdom, everyone would be so impressed with us because we were alive during this time. Well, they are telling the same load to the teens now.

Yeah, I was so worried about not being perfect as a teen, I didn’t want Jesus to return!

I will have to ask my daughter as she goes with my dad. I don’t want her worrying! I was terrified and never got a temple recommend because I was certain I wasn’t worthy! Just this year, a friend of mine was like, “no one was! We all lied!”

I’m also in my 30’s and some of that fear is just now melting away.

 

[iepuras]

I will have to ask my daughter as she goes with my dad. I don’t want her worrying! I was terrified and never got a temple recommend because I was certain I wasn’t worthy! Just this year, a friend of mine was like, “no one was! We all lied!”

I’m also in my 30’s and some of that fear is just now melting away.

I totally lied too! I even spent half my time in high school as an agnostic until I reasoned my way to God my senior year. Yes, I lied to the bishop and my parents and went on youth temple trips. This is also why I never “bore my testimony”. Because I believed in God, I was able to stomach attending BYU (they paid for my tuition and no other university would, so I went there). It still took me this long to figure it all out and leave. I was an old lady when I got married (30) so my children only had a stint in nursery before we left. They will have no memory of ever attending the LDS church. Yea! I am so happy to be finally coming home to where God always wanted me to be.

The most important thing is for you to know you are not alone. Feel free to PM me if you ever want to talk or vent.

 

[xpirategrrlx]

I totally lied too! I even spent half my time in high school as an agnostic until I reasoned my way to God my senior year. Yes, I lied to the bishop and my parents and went on youth temple trips. This is also why I never “bore my testimony”. Because I believed in God, I was able to stomach attending BYU (they paid for my tuition and no other university would, so I went there). It still took me this long to figure it all out and leave. I was an old lady when I got married (30) so my children only had a stint in nursery before we left. They will have no memory of ever attending the LDS church. Yea! I am so happy to be finally coming home to where God always wanted me to be.

The most important thing is for you to know you are not alone. Feel free to PM me if you ever want to talk or vent.

Awesome! I will most likely be pming you shortly! There are things I really don’t mind about being LDS, most are generally good people mad I still have several friends who love the church, but there is also a lot I don’t miss and a lot of the doctrine just doesn’t sit well with me and after I had my daughter, I knew I would never be able to fall into their mold. (I even got lectured by people! I know that can happen anywhere, but people who I barely knew asked why I didn’t give my baby up to a good, Mormon family. That really ticked me off!) long story short, it kind of triggered my search and luckily, I come from a split religion family!

 

[SteveVH]

(I even got lectured by people! I know that can happen anywhere, but people who I barely knew asked why I didn’t give my baby up to a good, Mormon family. That really ticked me off!) long story short, it kind of triggered my search and luckily, I come from a split religion family!

I am sitting here dumbstruck. They wanted you to give up your baby? People may get lectured in other faith traditions but this crosses an entirely different line.

 

[xpirategrrlx]

I am sitting here dumbstruck. They wanted you to give up your baby? People may get lectured in other faith traditions but this crosses an entirely different line.

Yes. I was a sinner who had premarital sex (which, okay, I was wrong. I admit that. But no one is perfect!) and it resulted in a pregnancy. But yes, I caught flack like “did I learn my lesson” and “I should give my baby to a good, Mormon family”. My father marched into the bishops office and said that wasn’t happening and people need to let up. The bishop told my dad he agreed and not to listen to the jerks! To this day, that man is a close, family friend. And my strict dad? Said he wanted to know his grandchild and if I wanted to keep and raise my baby, he would be the happiest grandpa ever. (Completely opposite of what I thought would happen. I thought he’d disown me!) and he’s an awesome dad and grandpa and my family is extremely close 12 years later.

 

[Slaney]

I am in my mid-30’s and we were taught this load of** horse manure** back when I was a teen in the LDS church.

Sorry about this, but reading your comments give me an almighty belly laugh, know I shouldn’t, but it was spontaneous.

 

[SteveVH]

Yes. I was a sinner who had premarital sex (which, okay, I was wrong. I admit that. But no one is perfect!) and it resulted in a pregnancy. But yes, I caught flack like “did I learn my lesson” and “I should give my baby to a good, Mormon family”. My father marched into the bishops office and said that wasn’t happening and people need to let up. The bishop told my dad he agreed and not to listen to the jerks! To this day, that man is a close, family friend. And my strict dad? Said he wanted to know his grandchild and if I wanted to keep and raise my baby, he would be the happiest grandpa ever. (Completely opposite of what I thought would happen. I thought he’d disown me!) and he’s an awesome dad and grandpa and my family is extremely close 12 years later.

Praise God for your family. And as far as being a sinner, welcome to the club.

 

[Michael57]

Just a clarification because I fully agree with you, but Ignatius heard John preach as a child, he was born after Jesus.

He was well acquainted with Polycarp as a contemporary.

Tradition identifies St. Ignatius as the child whom Jesus held as described in Matthew 18:4…

From Catholic Encyclopedia:

More than one of the earliest ecclesiastical writers have given credence, though apparently without good reason, to the legend that Ignatius was the child whom the Savior took up in His arms, as described in Mark 9:35. It is also believed, and with great probability, that, with his friend Polycarp, he was among the auditors of the Apostle St.

LINK

 

[xpirategrrlx]

Praise God for your family. And as far as being a sinner, welcome to the club.

I couldn’t be more grateful for my family. And thank you for the welcome! I think some forget they are not perfect and would rather just call everyone else out. I know we are all guilty at one point or another, but I try my best to keep from judging people.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Tradition identifies St. Ignatius as the child whom Jesus held as described in Matthew 18:4…

From Catholic Encyclopedia:

LINK

The link says it is legend without good reason???

Shouldn’t we dismiss legends as simply legends? Especially when we have better evidence?

Everything I’ve read puts him between AD35-50 as being born.

 

[iepuras]

Yes. I was a sinner who had premarital sex (which, okay, I was wrong. I admit that. But no one is perfect!) and it resulted in a pregnancy. But yes, I caught flack like “did I learn my lesson” and “I should give my baby to a good, Mormon family”. My father marched into the bishops office and said that wasn’t happening and people need to let up. The bishop told my dad he agreed and not to listen to the jerks! To this day, that man is a close, family friend. And my strict dad? Said he wanted to know his grandchild and if I wanted to keep and raise my baby, he would be the happiest grandpa ever. (Completely opposite of what I thought would happen. I thought he’d disown me!) and he’s an awesome dad and grandpa and my family is extremely close 12 years later.

Who isn’t a sinner? Did you learn your lesson?! Like having a baby is a punishment! Premarital sex is a sin, but a baby is not! Babies are beautiful blessings! I am so glad your father and bishop gave you love and support. Many unwed mothers are treated much worse in the LDS church.

 

[iepuras]

Sorry about this, but reading your comments give me an almighty belly laugh, know I shouldn’t, but it was spontaneous.

It’s been a rough day so knowing that my comments cause a hearty Irish belly laugh makes my day!

 

[Michael57]

The link says it is legend without good reason???

Shouldn’t we dismiss legends as simply legends? Especially when we have better evidence?

Everything I’ve read puts him between AD35-50 as being born.

I am sure you’re right, my memory is a bit dusty sometimes, as I have a habit of reading rather old books…

Perhaps it was Eusebius (or Polycarp? or Papias?) that I was recalling…looks like another opportunity to refresh my memory of it…thanks.

 

[TexanKnight]

However if they reason that the Apostle John fell away, it could fit that he lost his authority, but wouldn’t that cause him to be stripped of the benefit to still walk the Earth? If I remember correctly the 4 who still walk the earth were given the privilege for their faithfulness. I think if they lost the authority, that would make them part of the apostasy…

lol So, Mormons believe THE Apostle John lost his Authority, yet he came down with Peter and James to confer authority of the Mel. Priesthood on Joseph?

Really?

more LDS confusion

 

[TexanKnight]

The LDS teaching about John and the 3 Nephites presents a difficulty to claiming that the apostasy occurred but the LDS claim is that it was the church that lost the priesthood, not that John and the 3 Nephites and it was the church that began to change the plain and precious truths of the gospel, not that John and the 3 Nephites did. While John and the 3 Nephites would have had the necessary priesthood authority to restore it to the church or to start another church as Joseph Smith did, they didn’t do so for whatever reason.

because John apparently decided to totally disobey Jesus…

more LDS confusion

 

[JerryZ]

I would just like to point out that Jesus went out of His way to grab the attention of a really bad and mean sinner, one that had not personally met Him when he was alive.

He did not only because Saulo was persecuting the early Christians but as a result of his conversion he became known as the “Apostle to the Gentiles”. (St. Paul)

Any one doubts that, if He did this for the “worthless” gentiles. Would HE allow His followers to be left without shepards for what 1800 years?
Really?

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