The Talk

[Anglewannabe]

We get that you’re offended by it. I don’t think anyone said that your feelings are wrong.

Allegra said she was laughing at me, I think that is saying my feelings are wrong. You and Kamaduck never said my feelings were wrong. You two asked me to explain which I felt was healthy communication

The impression we got, however, was that you believe that it is universally considered to be offensive among civilized people

OK, and that is where I am open to polite feedback and a discussion to show me differently

–which, by implication, means that those of us who don’t believe it is offensive are somehow rude for not having your opinion.

Well, my intention was never to call anyone rude which is why I asked in a previous post how I could have said it differently.

Maybe some day the world will be the way you want it to be, but right now, it just isn’t. The word isn’t clinical, it isn’t formal, but neither is it universally considered a derogatory word.

NO, I never said the world should be my way. But as a Catholic, I do feel there are times when one should speak up when they disagree. Note I said disagree I did not say wants things their way. Which to repeat is why I am open to polite discussion

 

[Anglewannabe]

It offends you. That is not the same thing as being generally offensive. If I knew you in real life, I would refrain from using it around you, because I want to be considerate of you. I wouldn’t refrain from using it around people who weren’t offended by it, because it doesn’t bother them. The only reason to avoid it is absent.

Thank you for being considerate of my feelings and saying that you would refrain from using it around me. However, when you asked me why it was offensive, I though you wanted an answer. I did not realize what you were getting at

 

[EasterJoy]

Allegra said she was laughing at me, I think that is saying my feelings are wrong. You and Kamaduck never said my feelings were wrong. You two asked me to explain which I felt was healthy communication

OK, and that is where I am open to polite feedback and a discussion to show me differently

Well, my intention was never to call anyone rude which is why I asked in a previous post how I could have said it differently.

NO, I never said the world should be my way. But as a Catholic, I do feel there are times when one should speak up when they disagree. Note I said disagree I did not say wants things their way. Which to repeat is why I am open to polite discussion

Fair enough…on re-reading your posts, you were only trying to explain yourself, and why it is *your opinion *that the word is better avoided.

I am in favor of explaining to young people about the “in-between” words, which are fine with some people and very much not fine with others. It lets them know what they’re likely to hear and why repeating everything they hear will have its own pitfalls. For better or worse, we live in a society with a lot of strongly-held opinions, not just one unchanging standard, and it is worth the self-discipline required to avoid giving offense when none is meant. You can’t know who is feeling upset at what you say if they never speak up, and I believe it is better that they speak up and get accommodation. The tongue does not need unlimited freedom.

 

[Allegra]

Thank you for being considerate of my feelings and saying that you would refrain from using it around me. However, when you asked me why it was offensive, I though you wanted an answer. I did not realize what you were getting at

You are the one who insisted on interrupting the thread with your rediculous and unrelated right-fighting. Are your feelings hurt because I said “boobs”, or are you just angry because you failed so miserably at hurting my feelings? You can’t seriously convince yourself that God appreciates your efforts at fraternal correction over a word that was not used in anger or disrespect and is only offensive according to your own “feelings”. I assumed your screen name was the result of a spelling error, but maybe you actually do invest all your time and energy into being an angle. (as long as it’s a right angle)

 

[Anglewannabe]

You are the one who insisted on interrupting the thread with your rediculous and unrelated right-fighting. Are your feelings hurt because I said “boobs”, or are you just angry because you failed so miserably at hurting my feelings? You can’t seriously convince yourself that God appreciates your efforts at fraternal correction over a word that was not used in anger or disrespect and is only offensive according to your own “feelings”. I assumed your screen name was the result of a spelling error, but maybe you actually do invest all your time and energy into being an angle. (as long as it’s a right angle)

The problem I have with your posts after I said I found the word offensive is you are in no way trying to communicate maturely with me. It seems you just want to insult me. You admit that you have no intention to consider my point of view, are very sarcastic in how you respond by laughing at me and now are picking on my screen name with what appears to be solely motivated at insulting me. I actually find your tone very mean and to put me down.

You don’t like that I derailed the thread but yet have made several post off topic. If sticking to the topic is that important to you, why did you participate in this off topic debate?

 

[EasterJoy]

You are the one who insisted on interrupting the thread with your rediculous and unrelated right-fighting. Are your feelings hurt because I said “boobs”, or are you just angry because you failed so miserably at hurting my feelings? You can’t seriously convince yourself that God appreciates your efforts at fraternal correction over a word that was not used in anger or disrespect and is only offensive according to your own “feelings”. I assumed your screen name was the result of a spelling error, but maybe you actually do invest all your time and energy into being an angle. (as long as it’s a right angle)

Cool it, would you? Where did she try to hurt your feelings? And why would you find it helpful to put quotes around the word “feelings” when you talk about hers? You don’t do this to your aunts, do you? It is not as if you’re talking about a word that the President would use in his State of the Union Address. It is a slang term; if it bothers someone, lay off it for the moment. This is nothing to pick a fight about.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Cool it, would you? Where did she try to hurt your feelings? And why would you find it helpful to put quotes around the word “feelings” when you talk about hers? You don’t do this to your aunts, do you? It is not as if you’re talking about a word that the President would use in his State of the Union Address. It is a slang term; if it bothers someone, lay off it for the moment. This is nothing to pick a fight about.

Thank you EasterJoy. I feel much better knowing that someone understands my intention was never to offend anyone. Also, thank you for understanding it is no fun for me to be bullied when I am simply trying to get to the bottom of an issue

 

[EasterJoy]

Thank you EasterJoy. I feel much better knowing that someone understands my intention was never to offend anyone. Also, thank you for understanding it is no fun for me to be bullied when I am simply trying to get to the bottom of an issue

Be sure to keep in mind she had been bullied herself as a small child by at least one aunt that did not cotton to slang, and her mother took the aunt to task for being hard on the children about it. We all have our own histories with this kind of thing, and when someone is so very adamant, it is not usual to find something like that hiding somewhere. Very few people here want to hurt anyone else, including Allegra, which is a good thing.

 

[Allegra]

Cool it, would you? Where did she try to hurt your feelings? And why would you find it helpful to put quotes around the word “feelings” when you talk about hers? You don’t do this to your aunts, do you? It is not as if you’re talking about a word that the President would use in his State of the Union Address. It is a slang term; if it bothers someone, lay off it for the moment. This is nothing to pick a fight about.

My one aunt only tries to pick on little kids about words and only when their parents aren’t around. She doesn’t tell grown people how they should speak because she knows exactly how they would respond and she doesn’t want to be punched in the face.

My other aunt did exactly as Angle did. She started off as a snot, trying to ever-so-primly-and-passive-aggressively correct the language of grown people who weren’t doing anything wrong other than not being as civilized as she thought she was. (Just out of law school, you know the type.) But she didn’t make a very good bully because as soon as everyone told her she was crazy she went into this “poor me” crying act and went on whimpering about how no one respected her opinions. Unlike Angle, however, she got over it relatively quick (like within minutes) and realized she was just running a smart mouth and couldn’t honestly expect other people to take her seriously.

I put quotations around the word “feelings”, because both she and you are using the word incorrectly. She wasn’t expressing her “feelings”, she was expressing her opinion. Her “feelings”/opinion does not give her the authority to make demands upon other people especially since they are not based in reality. The word “boobs” is not hurting her and she knows it. I’m arguing about it because I’ve spent way too much of my life being abused by controlling, critical, passive-aggressive women and I’m not about to take flack off of some anonymous snot on the internt who thinks Jesus made her the grammer police.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Be sure to keep in mind she had been bullied herself as a small child by at least one aunt that did not cotton to slang, and her mother took the aunt to task for being hard on the children about it. We all have our own histories with this kind of thing, and when someone is so very adamant, it is not usual to find something like that hiding somewhere. Very few people here want to hurt anyone else, including Allegra, which is a good thing.

True out histories make us adamant, but there is a mature way of dealing with things. I personally think Allegra doesn’t care if she hurts me. Reading all her posts, her tones is nothing but an attack on me personally and she has admitted she was not willing to consider my point at all. Just in her post where she purposely refers to me as ‘angle’. She is just trying to start a fight by making fun of my name.

Angie

 

[Megan7]

St. Francis Books (www.stfrancisbooks.com) has 2 Catholic books about this. There’s one for girls called “Mother’s Little Helper” and one for boys called “Listen, Son”. They have talks for kids as young as 9-13. My mom has “Listen, Son” but I’ve only skimmed through it, but from what SFB has on their web site, they look very positive. I’m going to buy “Mother’s Little Helper” for my stepdaughter as she will be nine this year. SFB is a great Catholic company that has LOTS of resources for homeschooling, virtues, Catholic family life, etc. - even Catholic paper dolls for little girls, and lots of novels about the saints. Everything I’ve ever seen come from there has been completely solid. There are a very small number of things that are not specifically Catholic, but they always mention that on the web site.

Great ideas for gifts as well (for the parents when the baby arrives, to prepare in advance ) Sorry to interrupt “the talk”… Carry on…

 

[TheRealJuliane]

The problem I have with your posts after I said I found the word offensive is you are in no way trying to communicate maturely with me. It seems you just want to insult me. You admit that you have no intention to consider my point of view, are very sarcastic in how you respond by laughing at me and now are picking on my screen name with what appears to be solely motivated at insulting me. I actually find your tone very mean and to put me down.

You don’t like that I derailed the thread but yet have made several post off topic. If sticking to the topic is that important to you, why did you participate in this off topic debate?

FWIW, I agree with you about the term “boobs.” I hate the anti-breast cancer campaign, “Save the boobies,” because it seems so juvenile, like 5th grade boys came up with it. I haven’t called my breasts “boobs” since I was in junior high and I didn’t particular care for it then. I do think it’s dirty slang. Women usually don’t use the term ourselves; it’s young boys who tend to use it. It’s in the same category as “t*ts,” just perhaps one notch less coarse.

 

[EasterJoy]

True out histories make us adamant, but there is a mature way of dealing with things. I personally think Allegra doesn’t care if she hurts me. Reading all her posts, her tones is nothing but an attack on me personally and she has admitted she was not willing to consider my point at all. Just in her post where she purposely refers to me as ‘angle’. She is just trying to start a fight by making fun of my name.

Angie

Life is much better if you choose to believe better of people. I could go on with one of my windy explanations, but it is just true. This is how the Catechism puts it:

***2478 **To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved.280*

Now, from just a practical standpoint, are you using suitable ways that have any likelihood of changing Allegra’s mind? My opinion is not. Try what seems likely and then quit, deciding to believe that either the person is doing their best or perhaps this time (since your difference in this case is not about revealed truth), you are wrong and they are right. It does not matter if you give in on this, in any event. You’ve made yourself clear; if charity asks you to, just let it go quietly.

All you need to know about anyone is that God thirsts for their soul and sees them already as the saint he made them to be, and on that account has great mercy for each of us. He puts up with us parading around in saints’ clothing and getting the hems and sleeves all messy because we are in a garment that is too big for us. We each know how much we have been forgiven, so it is not a great trial to extend that same mercy in gratitude. Honestly, as I wrote at first, it really is a more pleasant way to live, too, sort of love’s opposite of paranoia. When you know you are loved and you are safe; you can afford to be merciful.