The Talmud and Jesus

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sassygal1973 said:
Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekial, all my favorites… What about Job?? They all foretold Christ!! Isaiah foretold Christ’s birth 700 years before He came and you still don’t believe after these prophets told you so?? What about Esther, Daniel, etc…?
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That’s another thread. (I mentioned Job). Obviously, Jews don’t view the prophets as discussing Jesus. Nothing I’ve ever read in any of the prophets even gave me pause on that matter. It is only if you first believe Jesus is the messiah and then look backward that you can say “this is about jesus!” Reading it and looking forward… no Jesus.

The redemption that all those books are primarily concerned with is the redemption of a people, not personal salvation.
 
inJESUS said:
lol forget about prophecies. To a Jew, in order for a person to be the Messiah, he has to accomplish things first…if Jesus did not do what people think he should have done, then no prophecy will convince.
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absolutely. We get that from the prophecies!
 
Valke2 said:
absolutely. We get that from the prophecies!
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indeed, but as you said, you’ll have to believe first that Jesus is the Messiah in order to be convinced about the prophecies that Christians use. If you don’t, then we won’t have the same prophecies in common, though we do believe in the prophecies you refer to, but which pertain to Jesus’ second coming, not the first.
 
Valke2 said:
He’s Italian 🙂
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Valke, I don’t get it. Help me to understand. If your father was Italian (you must be good-looking), then did he not instill any Catholicism at all? I know if mother is Jewish, then you are truly Jewish. Did he not mention Christ? Was he not religious at all? Is this all a rebellion?? And who do you think the Prophets were talking about? It wasn’t “personal salvation”, not in my Bible. You will wait forever for a Messiah that is already here. pity.
 
InJesus I saw your funny face after the post…Your only kidding…😃
 
Valke2 said:
That’s another thread. (I mentioned Job). Obviously, Jews don’t view the prophets as discussing Jesus. Nothing I’ve ever read in any of the prophets even gave me pause on that matter. It is only if you first believe Jesus is the messiah and then look backward that you can say “this is about jesus!” Reading it and looking forward… no Jesus.

The redemption that all those books are primarily concerned with is the redemption of a people, not personal salvation.
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Christianity does not teach that all prophets lived only or primarily to talk about Jesus or predict the major events in Messiah’s life.

It’s true that we need faith in Jesus to approach certain texts in the Old Testament from a purely Messianic perspective. The New Testament underscores the fact that the apostles began to teach that some parts of the Holy Scripture pointed at the Messiah only after they believed and worshipped Jesus as the risen Messiah and Savior. No faith, no understanding of the Scripture! Matthew 13:12 “For whoever has will be given more, and will have an abundance. But whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him”.

Besides, the New Testament claims that some of the prophecies in the Old Testament are not directly associated with the Messiah. For instance, Peter in the Acts quotes two Psalms while stating the necessity to replace Judas with another apostle. Peter implies that those two Psalms pointed at Judas Iscariot (1: 20).

As for national redemption vs personal salvation, the Gospel of John says that the Messiah came to His people (first Jews, then Gentiles): John 1:11 He came to what was his own, but his own people did not receive him.

Remember that Abraham became the father(singular) of nations(plural). There is an astonishing association between the personal and national redemption in the Old Testament. It says in Genesis that all humanity had one father and mother at the beginning of creation 😉

Shalom to you,
Angelos
 
Saint_Michael,
I don’t think you should leave. It will only deprive the forum of your insight. What does it matter what the Talmud says about Jesus? Does anyone expect it to acknowledge what the Christians believe about Jesus? No. Would anyone expect it to cast Jesus in a negative light? Absolutely.

Please remember the historical events that led to the crucifixion. Those were not gentle times.

I have read something similar in the Talmud about the trial and execution of some man some construe to be Jesus.

Hasta la vista,
Rodrigo
 
I’m really confused here.

Is that ‘Son of Pandira’ the same person as Jesus of Nazareth? I’ve seen some people think that they aren’t. :confused:
 
Valke, you haven’t answered my question about your father mentioning Christ in your household at all. You say he was a Catholic.
 
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