The Talmud

  • Thread starter Thread starter RomanCrusader
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think the mission statement of Michael Hoffman and his Revisionist History site speaks for itself in terms of its agenda and potential for being considered an objective credible site

revisionisthistory.org/page1/page6/page6.html

We can also take a look at his track record on other issues:
the Holocaust for instance
ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p467_Hoffman.html
revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2006/02/holohoax-cartoon-satirizing.html

The Columbia shuttle disaster
splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=8
"Holocaust denier Michael Hoffman took the location of the destruction as a sign of good things to come. “The symbolism of the Israeli ‘combat air force’ pilot blowing up in the approximate vicinity of Palestine, Texas, requires no embellishment or explications,” Hoffman wrote. “Rarely does what we might call ‘the hand of God’ move so dramatically in world affairs.” "
Karen,… Yet again you are a wonderous angel of God Himself…!!

I’m almost never for banning persons from these fori, but Roman is the first exception to my toleration of the inane.

Thanks again for running down the facts behind the scum.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.
 
I find an obsession by members of a group of about a billion about the fact that members of a group of about 20 million don’t believe the same way is more than a bit crazy.
 
The Talmud is not a book you can criticize without studying. It is akin to criticizing the New York Federal Supplement vol. 2 case law.

The overall structure of a page of Talmud traditionally goes something like this:

The text of the Mishna is placed in the center of the page. The Mishna is the earliest redacted transcription/recording of the Oral Torah that was given to Moses at Sinai. This material has changed at times due to editing of non-jewish censors but it has been restored in later editions. The Mishna is often difficult to understand because it uses oral memory devices to convey a lot of information, information that is not readily apparent from simply reading it. This is because the Mishna was taught orally and a lot of information had to be memorized.

Example of Mishna:
"If a person was riding on an animal and he saw a found object, and he said to another person, “Give it to me,” [and the other person] took it and said, “I have acquired it,” he has acquired it. If, after he gave it to him, he said “I acquired it first,” he said nothing.
The Mishna’s goal is to clarify how to behave in certain circumstances that the written Torah does not expressly cover. As you can see, the commentary can often require further commentary. This is where the Gemara comes in. Gemara is later commentary written on the Mishna. In the Talmud, it follows underneath the Mishna passage.

Gemara: We have learned there: Someone who gahtered pe’ah and said 'Behold this is for so-and-so the poor man. Rabbi Elizer says:…

Most Talmuds will also have the Rashi commentary on the same page, giving his view of the Mishna and/or the Gemara. Rashi was one of the greates rabbis, lived in the 12th century France, and wrote extensive commentaries on all the Jewish scriptures.

Then in the bottom half of the page will be notes:
“Gemara” We have learned elsewhere in a Mishna in tractate Pe’ah (4:0): Someone who gathered pe’ah - produce which by Torah law [Leviticus 23:22] is left unharvested in the corner of a field by the owner of the field, to be gleaned by the poor – and said, 'Behold, this pe’ah which I have gleaned is intended for so and so the poor man, Rabbi Elizar says: The person who gathered the pe’ah has acquired it…

Then there would be footnotes that discussed certain words or terms used in the Mishna and Gemara:

“If a person gathered pe’ah.” According to Rahsi, the Mishna must be referring to someone other than the owner of the field. By Torah Law the owner of a field is required to seperate part of his field as pe’ah, even if he himself is poor, and he may not take the pe’ah for himself. Thereofre the “since” argument…

At the very bottom of the page will be the Halakhah – the law that is derived from the Mishna:

"A person who gahtered pe’ah for someone else. If a poor person, who himself is entitled to collect pe’ah, gathered pe’ah for another poor person, and said, “This pe’ah is for x, the poor person,’ he acquires the 'e’ah on behalf of that other poor person. But if the person who collected the pe’ah was wealthy, he does not acquire the pe’ah on behalf of the poor person. he must give it instead to the first poor person who appears in the field,” following the opinion of the Sages as explained by Rabby Yehoshua ben Levi (Rambam, Sefer Zeraim, Hilkhot Mattenot Aniyyim 2:19).

On the margins of the page might be notes providing background information:
“The Torah forbids harvesting the corners of your field,” so that the produce left standing may be harvested and kept by the poor (Leviticus 19:9). The Torah did not specify a minimum amount of produce to be left as pe’ah, but the Sages stipulated that it must be at least 1/60th of the crop.
Pe’ah is set aside only from crops that ripen at one time and are harvested at one time. THe poor are allowed touse their own intitiative to reap the pe’ah left in the fields. But the owner of an orchard must see to it that each of the poor gets a fixed share of the pe’ah from places that are difficult to reach. The poor come to collect pe’ah three times a day. The laws of pe’ah are discussed in detail in tractate Pe’ah.

And there you have a typical page of Talmud. One page. There are most likely several other pages discussing the two lines of Mishna.

If one only attempts to learn a little bit of Talmud, hopefully with a knowledgeable study partner, it quickly becomes apparent how misleading, wrong, and hurtful are the majority of nonjewish comments on various Talmud verse that are found all over the internet.
 
And if we are going to use selective quotes, I’d like to throw in two:

the Talmud is pure evil (demonic) and modern Judaism is full of atheists… - Roman Crusader.

Another example of more Foxman stupidity is how Foxman wants the Polish government and the Catholic Church to CENSOR a Polish priest because the priest did the unthinkable (drumroll)…he called Jews “greedy”."TYPE=PICT;ALT lol - Roman Crusader.

So it is not as if I haven’t heard his schtick before.
 
You are quite the scholar. DId you study this with David Duke?
Typical response, immediatly scream “anti-semetism” to try and alienate your opponent. Well done. You sure proved a lousy goyim like me wrong:rolleyes:
 
Have you ever read any of the older canons of both the Eastern and Western Church and what they say about avoiding Jews?

How many Jew’s have gone out to the local Christian communities and slaughterd the villigers?
Yet Jews knew at Easter Time that rabid anti-semites egged on by the Christian Seromons were coming for them and had to hide out or face being lynched…

Those in glass houses…etc.
In 300 AD a Jewish mob snatched a 8 year old Christian boy and publically crufcified him during passover.

In 518 AD the Najran massacre Jewish king Dhu Nuwas orders forced conversion and subsequent massacre of Christians in his realm.

In the 614 Jerusalem massacres the Jewish residents assited the Persians in massacreing some 90,000 Christians.

Jews have blood on their hands as well, trust me. Christians do too. To say Jews (or anyone else) is completely innocent is a lie.
 
It just seems to me that religion can cloud people from seeing something clearly before them. It’s like the Koran that says to find the Jew hiding behind the rock and slay him (paraphrasing) or these verses in the talmud, or Catholics who defend the inquisition and Crusades. It’s like people are too proud to say “you know what, yeah that was wrong and offensive I don’t even know why we still follow that, or it’s even taught”… It’s like this crazy black or whiteness in religion that admitting the tiniest error somehow dismantles your entire faith. So you use dissonance and self-justification to justify the most slanderous things and insane behavior. It’s crazy to me is all.

If you read these verses in the New York Times tomorrow you would be aghast at them.
The Inquisition and crusades were very good things in principle, and in practice they had some good outcomes as well, despite a few flaws. Do a little research bud.
 
The Inquisition and crusades were very good things in principle, and in practice they had some good outcomes as well, despite a few flaws. Do a little research bud.
No they weren’t, this goes back to my claim that overly-religious people will defend the most insane things in order to protray their religion in a better light. Somehow they’re incapable of saying “what a bunch of nonsense the inquisition was, like Jesus needs us to torture people to protect His Church”, the entire idea is laughable. It’s called cognitive dissonance, do some research bud…

Jesus Christ would be appaled at the Crusades and the inquisition. They were indefensible actions where tens of thousands were killed in the name of Christ.
 
And if we are going to use selective quotes, I’d like to throw in two:

the Talmud is pure evil (demonic) and modern Judaism is full of atheists… - Roman Crusader.

Another example of more Foxman stupidity is how Foxman wants the Polish government and the Catholic Church to CENSOR a Polish priest because the priest did the unthinkable (drumroll)…he called Jews “greedy”."TYPE=PICT;ALT lol - Roman Crusader.

So it is not as if I haven’t heard his schtick before.
What I said is true. The ADL are atheistic fanatics and have the exact same agenda as American Atheists does. Foxman is a racist and a Jewish supremacist.

I respect the Koran much moreso than the Talmud. The Koran, for all its flaws, does contain some wisdom. The Koran isn’t the book that says Jesus deserved to die.

Here is an old topic made by Valke where he outright admits that the Talmud calls Mary a “whore” and says Jesus is in Hell.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=121534
 
No they weren’t, this goes back to my claim that overly-religious people will defend the most insane things in order to protray their religion in a better light. Somehow they’re incapable of saying “what a bunch of nonsense the inquisition was, like Jesus needs us to torture people to protect His Church”, the entire idea is laughable. It’s called cognitive dissonance, do some research bud…

Jesus Christ would be appaled at the Crusades and the inquisition. They were indefensible actions where tens of thousands were killed in the name of Christ.
I’ll criticize plenty of Catholic flaws. Catholic support for the tyrannical Ustashi regime comes to mind. No excuse for that.
 
Not for nothing but that appears to be your “interpretation” of the verses or at least the one you like, when you just read them as they appear they seem pretty straightforward and offensive.
Reading words “as they appear” means reading them with your peculiar presuppositions. It does not mean reading them “as they are.” Jews are not responsible for your disinterest in actually understanding the context of this statement.

Edwin
 
I respect the Koran much moreso than the Talmud. The Koran, for all its flaws, does contain some wisdom. The Koran isn’t the book that says Jesus deserved to die.
A proper comparison for the Quran is the Torah.

A proper comparison for the Talmud is the Hadiths.
 
Not for nothing but that appears to be your “interpretation” of the verses or at least the one you like, when you just read them as they appear they seem pretty straightforward and offensive.

And it does explain why orthodox Jews who live in communities do not acknowledge the “gentiles” existence. Is it possible they take a more literal rendering of these verses?
Try reading them in Hebrew and then get back to me. You aren’t reading them as they appear. I am telling you how Judaism has interpeted that particular quote for the last 1,800 years. Your opinion on orthodox Jews notwithstanding.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top