The Targeting of Christians and How Christians Respond: Reflections on the Oregon Shootings

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Vanny said:
I see your point, I really do, and although I’m a conservative I don’t have a problem with keeping guns out of the wrong hands. And personally there are certain types of guns that I think should be illegal.
But here’s the thing. I’m nearing 60, and when I was in high school, and college, things like this NEVER happened, or were extremely rare. And people had guns and hunting rifles around then. I can’t remember one single instance prior to 1980, and I lived in Los Angeles. yes we didn’t have 24 hour news cable channels then, but still-it would have become known(as the Manson murders were,ect)yes there were domestic incidences with guns back then -but not the random crazy stuff that happens now.
Now it seems it’s almost routine.
We need to address the underlying root cause of WHY this is happening.
I have some theories, including what one poster mentioned about mental illness, among others. Also a breakdown of families, and morals and parenting.
Also, it was mentioned up the thread, and is true, that cities and D.C. which have the tightest gun laws-also have the highest crime and shooting rates.
Also, it doesn’t always require a gun to kill lots of people(though I do admit it helps)
The Oklahoma City bombing of 1995 is an example-this guy used fertilizer.
We, as a society, need to be asking what is the underlying root cause.
Why do we have these lone rangers that all of a sudden go off the deep end and think it’s the thing to do to commit mass murder?
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I was just having this same conversation with my Mom and I still can’t figure it out. It’s absolutely insane. My wife’s brother and wife live in Roseburg and any of her relatives who lived there went to that college in the past. Praying for those involved.
 
Vanny said:
Why do we have these lone rangers that all of a sudden go off the deep end and think it’s the thing to do to commit mass murder?
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It is partly due to social alienation. Everyone, speaking hyperbolically, is seen as an enemy who you must either defend yourself against or who you must first eliminate so that that person will not harm you.
 
St_Francis said:
Lots more people die in traffic accidents; do we care more about our cars than we do them?
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Yes. Americans do care too much about their cars. I see Americans driving and using their cell phones all the time. That’s why I favor stricter safety and semi-automatic robotic anti-accident features on cars such as are now being developed by Google.
 
I’ve been anti-gun for most of my life, but if I had a family I would have a gun in order to protect them. As it is, I live alone and I’m prepared to die whenever the time comes. It’s not a big deal to me and guns just aren’t important.🤷 I do think that more Americans are afraid of the police than they are of street crime or serial killers, and I think that’s a valid concern.
 
Tomdstone said:
It is partly due to social alienation. Everyone, speaking hyperbolically, is seen as an enemy who you must either defend yourself against or who you must first eliminate so that that person will not harm you.
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You are so knowledgeable about this! How do you know these things? (This is indeed a request for evidence of your assertions…)
 
HungerNThirst4R said:
Personally, as a Christian, I would be willing to be martyred rather than take another person’s life(I would get into a physical altercation though if it meant possibly saving the lives of others), I can only pray that I would have that much courage.
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I absolutely agree. However, I don’t know any responsible gun owners who are desiring to take another human’s life.

In the local news many years ago, there was a story about a man who broke into a home. He ended up killing all of the inhabitants who were trying to hide until the police arrived. He wiped out an entire family: mom, dad and seven children. Trust me, there were gun laws on the books…The criminal didn’t follow them. So I’m just wondering, should the father have been allowed to protect his family with a firearm? If not, what tools would you have suggested to give him a fighting chance to save his family? A physical altercation will only anger someone with a gun. What if your altercation was unsuccessful?
Lets all keep them in our prayers. I think that should be our first response.
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I absolutely agree. 👍
 
CatholicFireman said:
I was just having this same conversation with my Mom and I still can’t figure it out. It’s absolutely insane. My wife’s brother and wife live in Roseburg and any of her relatives who lived there went to that college in the past. Praying for those involved.
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Yes praying too. I’m wondering why the shooter targeted that particular school?
Apparently he never attended there-did he even live close by?
maybe because it was rural and would take police 30 minutes to get there?
was a gun-free Zone?
Maybe he applied and was rejected?
I read somewhere he was also rejected when he applied to the Army.
Lots of questions.
Then there is the anti-Christian rant which relates to the title of this thread.
 
liturgyluver said:
What a stupid argument! The clue is in the word accident. Cars are designed to get people from A to B, guns are designed to kill, but among western nations only in the US are they used so liberally to kill their fellow citizens.
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The fact that they are accidents only makes it worse–one could theoretically teach people not to kill people with their guns, but there’s only so much accident-reduction that can happen through training, because we are still human and therefore imperfect.

As to why people have guns, why so many people have guns, I will explain my situation. I live in a rural area with only a tiny police force. Were an accident to occur at one end of the jurisdiction, the one or two officers on duty would be at a minimum, half an hour away from me. If someone were to break into my home and endanger my children, where would we be without a form of self-defense? All potentially harmed or killed.
 
Vanny said:
Yes praying too. I’m wondering why the shooter targeted that particular school?
Apparently he never attended there-did he even live close by?
maybe because it was rural and would take police 30 minutes to get there?
was a gun-free Zone?
Maybe he applied and was rejected?
I read somewhere he was also rejected when he applied to the Army.
Lots of questions.
Then there is the anti-Christian rant which relates to the title of this thread.
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All I heard was he was from CA and move to OR. Maybe he moved to Roseburg?
 
Tomdstone said:
It is partly due to social alienation. Everyone, speaking hyperbolically, is seen as an enemy who you must either defend yourself against or who you must first eliminate so that that person will not harm you.
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True but there have always been odd, or socially isolated people.
They may have shot at you if you wandered on to their property-but I don’t remember these mass killings years ago-where they ventured out to take out people.
There’s a different component today-maybe more mental illness or socially isolated people.
 
Evania said:
I absolutely agree. However, I don’t know any responsible gun owners who are desiring to take another human’s life.

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👍

I am reminded of something said once by a gun-owner and CC-license holder: I don’t carry a gun because I want to shoot someone. I carry a gun because I want to be left alone.
 
Vanny said:
True but there have always been odd, or socially isolated people.
They may have shot at you if you wandered on to their property-but I don’t remember these mass killings years ago-where they ventured out to take out people.
There’s a different component today-maybe more mental illness or socially isolated people.
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Take a look at the violent movies today compared with the Humphrey Bogart movies of the past. Do you see any difference? Americans pay to see more and more violent entertainment. This is what Americans want and this is what Hollywod gives them.
 
Tomdstone said:
Take a look at the violent movies today compared with the Humphrey Bogart movies of the past. Do you see any difference? Americans pay to see more and more violent entertainment. This is what Americans want and this is what Hollywod gives them.
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Can’t argue with you there- although it’s far from just Americans.
If I had my way-America would go back to the Hayes Code which was a self imposed censorship on the movie industry(The MPA imposed it on itself not the government).
it was abandoned around 1970(naturally, in conjunction with the sexual revolution).
There is a description if you google Hayes code on Wikipedia, describes the history, the dos and don’ts and be carefuls.
 
I think that any time something like this happens, every trace of the perpetrator’s name and existence should be erased, as much as possible. The media should be barred from publicizing his name in any form. See how many copycats there are then.
 
Faithdancer said:
Over 10,000 people are killed in drunk driving related accidents every year, too. By your logic, cars should be made illegal.
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I agree that cars as made today should be made illegal and that all cars should be equipped with semi-automatic accident avoidance mechanisms as being developed by Google. But in any case you are forgetting that the purpose of a gun is to shoot accurately at a target, whether that be a child or a pregnant woman or an elderly person walking down the street. A car is designed with the purpose of transporting and individual from one location to another.
 
Tomdstone said:
Do Americans value guns more than the lives of a few college students and the lives of schoolchildren?
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Hi Tom. I have been thinking about the United States and values in relation to lives also.
I wonder if the mass shootings we have been experiencing in this country might be likened to the canary in the cola mine of the past-a sign of an environment which is not life affirming.
This is a country in which is has become customary to kill our young in the name of improving our own life prospects. It is a country in which we are passing laws in which some lives may be ascertained to have few redeeming qualities, and thus, with a prescription, that life may be taken.
The value of persons is often presented as a function of earnings capacity. Businesses treat employees as disposable, and, so often, we see people treat each other in a similar manner.
The young men who commit these acts of violence seem to have bought in to the Nihilist paradigm. They seem to have no hope, no sense of the possible and they treat others as disposable objects.
I agree that reconsidering the values which seem to be gaining ascendancy in this culture is important.
I think that, in a most unfortunate way, the young men who are committing these terrible acts, are indeed reflecting societal values, values which privilege profit and earning capacity over people.
May God bless us all and may we be guided to realign our values in accordance with His most holy will.
Amen.
 
Faithdancer said:
Over 10,000 people are killed in drunk driving related accidents every year, too. By your logic, cars should be made illegal.
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Drunk driving is a great analogy but not in the way you intended. In the 1980’s, drunk driving fatalities were in the 20,000 per year range. When MADD first started, they faced a lot of the same arguments that people use today about gun violence… “Nothing can be done,” “It’s a part of our culture,” “Freedom!” etc. Powerful lobbyists fought the common sense regulations MADD proposed and many American’s initially resisted the more restrictive laws they were proposing.

But, they persisted, and the America people soon became fed up with the senseless deaths and rallied to support them. As a result of education, activism and stricter laws and tighter enforcement, drunk driving deaths per year have decreased to half of what they were 30 years ago.

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