The "ten commandments" and the quran.

[Irene72]

Do muslims recognize the ten commandments of Moses? Are they mentioned in the Quran?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Do muslims recognize the ten commandments of Moses? Are they mentioned in the Quran?

The Qur’an mentions the Torah which was given to Moses (more comprehensive than the 10 Commandments.)

Here’s a short article about the 10 Commandments in Islam.

 

[Irene72]

The Qur’an mentions the Torah which was given to Moses (more comprehensive than the 10 Commandments.)

Here’s a short article about the 10 Commandments in Islam.

I looked at that article but its not a direct mention of the ten commandments. ???
Am I reading it wrong?

 

[Sister_Amy]

No I don’t think you’re reading it wrong. Forgive me if you were looking for something else.

The Qur’an specifically mentions the Law, the Torah, which God gave to Moses, many many times. And the Qur’an also basically includes all of the 10 commandments, just not as a single summary measure–as part of the overall faith of Islam.

What it mentions specifically about 10 Commandments, I find here:

And We wrote for him [Moses] on the tablets [something] of all things - instruction and explanation for all things, [saying], “Take them with determination and order your people to take the best of it. I will show you the home of the defiantly disobedient.” 7:145

 

[R_not]

The Qur’an mentions the Torah which was given to Moses (more comprehensive than the 10 Commandments.)

Here’s a short article about the 10 Commandments in Islam.

Except that muslims don’t tell infidels that they don’t apply them to us. It is ok to kill us, to steal from us, to kidnap and enslave us, etc.

And because we are lower than pigs and feces - they don’t look at us as innocent, or beings that their 10 commandments should apply to, hence all the violence in majority of muslim countries. They enslave, kill, torture, steal from, and lie to infidels all the time. Kidnapping is a problem with not only some in Europe, but also in Africa, India, and Southeast Asia. For example, Hindus are kidnaped and given to (I called it slavery) muslim men to marry and are forced to convert.)

Here is a short article on it our standing in islam and an excerpt from the article and take note of the phrase “…he will not have the priviledges of a muslim…”:

**Contact with najis things brings a Muslim into a state of ritual impurity (najasat). Not only do Muslims think pigs are impure, but they believe non-Muslims are, too:

"84. The following ten things are essentially najis: 1. Urine 2. Faeces 3. Semen 4. Dead body 5. Blood 6. Dog 7. Pig 8. Kafir 9. Alcoholic liquors 10. The sweat of an animal who persistently eats najasat *.

1. The entire body of a Kafir, including his hair and nails, and all liquid substances of his body, are najis.
2. If the parents, paternal grandmother and paternal grandfather of a minor child are all kafir, that child is najis, except when he is intelligent enough, and professes Islam. When, even one person from his parents or grandparents is a Muslim, the child is Pak.
3. A person about whom it is not known whether he is a Muslim or not, and if no signs exist to establish him as a Muslim, he will be considered Pak. But he will not have the privileges of a Muslim, like, he cannot marry a Muslim woman, nor can he be buried in a Muslim cemetery."

jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005438.php***

 

[inJESUS]

And We wrote for him [Moses] on the tablets [something] of all things - instruction and explanation for all things, [saying], “Take them with determination and order your people to take the best of it. I will show you the home of the defiantly disobedient.” 7:145

The Bible says there were 2 tablets containing the 10 commandmants…

“And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.” Exodus 31:18

“When Moses came down from Mount Sinai, with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand as he came down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because he had been talking with God.” Exodus 34:29

“And he declared to you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments, and he wrote them on two tablets of stone.” Deuteronomy 4:13

“These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly at the mountain out of the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and he added no more. And he wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.” Deuteronomy 5:22

is that what the Quran means by “all things/explanation of all things”? and why does it refer to the 2 tablets as al-alwahi, which denotes more than 2?

 

[Sister_Amy]

I haven’t read the ayah in Arabic so I’ll take your word for it.

But don’t Christians believe that Moses destroyed the first set of tablets, and had to receive a second set of two? Making 4? I dunno.

 

[inJESUS]

I haven’t read the ayah in Arabic so I’ll take your word for it.

the word used in Arabic denotes more than 2. In Arabic, unlike English, there is a whole grammar for “duality”. The Quran word does not fall in that category because it is al-alwahi when it should be al-lawhayni if it meant 2.

But don’t Christians believe that Moses destroyed the first set of tablets, and had to receive a second set of two? Making 4? I dunno.

 

[Sister_Amy]

the word used in Arabic denotes more than 2. In Arabic, unlike English, there is a whole grammar for “duality”. The Quran word does not fall in that category because it is al-alwahi when it should be al-lawhayni if it meant 2.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3925115:

I might even ask this one to my Arabic teacher (who I haven’t talked to in a long time…) because it’s a really interesting question. Cool. The more I read the verse though it just sounds like maybe there were more than two tablets.

as far as i know, the Bible mentions only 2, as the verse i gave show.

Maybe you can ask as well if “everthing/explanation of everything” refers to the 10 commandmants as well.

 

[Irene72]

Yes or no

Do the Muslims respect the commandment from Moses;
“one shall not kill” ?

 

[Sister_Amy]

You mean “Thou shalt not murder.” If the commandment were simply not to kill, then the death penalty would not have been prescribed in the Torah, throughout the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The Qur’an says: (17:33)

**And do not kill **the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law].

I like this translation of the same verse:

Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).

 

[dolphinlove]

You mean “Thou shalt not murder.” If the commandment were simply not to kill, then the death penalty would not have been prescribed in the Torah, throughout the books of Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

The Qur’an says: (17:33)

**And do not kill **the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right. And whoever is killed unjustly - We have given his heir authority, but let him not exceed limits in [the matter of] taking life. Indeed, he has been supported [by the law].

I like this translation of the same verse:

Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).

Douay-Rheims:
13 Thou shalt not kill.

Challoner_Rheims:
20:13. Thou shalt not kill.

RSV version:
[13] You shall not **kill. **

The Jerusalem Bible
13 'You shall not kill.

The new american bible:
13 You shall not kill.

Sorry Amy, but these translations are from Catholic translated bibles, not like the KJV you get your translations from. The Catholic church is the true version of the translation, not the inferior translations of the other versions, and it clearly states 'You shall not kill’

So you cannot use that as an excuse for those quotes you gave as an excuse to ‘kill’. God forbids killing, not just murdering.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Eh? I’m not someone entitled to interpret the Bible, that’s for sure, nor was I attempting to. I don’t consult KJV, either.

The crux of my point was not the way a particular translator opted to translate one word.

Just go on and read the Old Testament. Just read it. There’s lots of killing. Lots of stoning to death. Death by stoning is a very frequently mentioned punishment in Deuteronomy. The death penalty. There is, plain and simple, capital punishment in the Bible and that’s a fact. So to say that the Bible simultaneously forbids killing in all instances is not a correct assertion. It forbids killing without a right, but in fact it demands killing to redress particular wrongs. The Qur’an is exactly the same.

 

[dolphinlove]

Eh? I’m not someone entitled to interpret the Bible, that’s for sure, nor was I attempting to. I don’t consult KJV, either.

The crux of my point was not the way a particular translator opted to translate one word.

Just go on and read the Old Testament. Just read it. There’s lots of killing. Lots of stoning to death. Death by stoning is a very frequently mentioned punishment in Deuteronomy. The death penalty. There is, plain and simple, capital punishment in the Bible and that’s a fact. So to say that the Bible simultaneously forbids killing in all instances is not a correct assertion. It forbids killing without a right, but in fact it demands killing to redress particular wrongs. The Qur’an is exactly the same.

The point of my post was to show you it was not the word ‘murder’ but ‘kill’, if you want to start another debate the bible about these things, we shall start another thread ok, i have no problem with that. But as i said, the point of my thread was to show it was kill, not murder in the 10 commandments.

 

[Sister_Amy]

And my point is that it means murder, regardless of how you translate it. Because killing as a form of justice is COMMANDED (not just allowed, but COMMANDED) in the Old Testament.

 

[inJESUS]

It is to be noted that the OT war commands were specific in time within specific wars and circumstances, reflecting an environment already at war historically, and not a war manual forever as denoted by the Quran. Nowhere do we find in the OT the general command of : i was commanded to kill people until they say there is no deity but God.

Anyway, what does observing the sabbath become in Islam?

Narrated Abu Huraira:
I heard Allah’s Apostle (p.b.u.h) saying, “We (Muslims) are the last (to come) but (will be) the foremost on the Day of Resurrection though the former nations were given the Holy Scriptures before us. And this was their day (Friday) the celebration of which was made compulsory for them but they differed about it. So Allah gave us the guidance for it (Friday) and all the other people are behind us in this respect: the Jews’ (holy day is) tomorrow (i.e. Saturday) and the Christians’ (is) the day after tomorrow (i.e. Sunday).” (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 13, Number 1, see also Number 21)

Is it Friday out of superiority? and who says the Sabbath was given because Jews differed about Friday?

regarding the other commandmants, i think one can find them in the Quran, though in a way sometimes that opposes the Bible. For example, marrying another man to be able to go back to your first husband is a big no no.

“God says, 'If a husband divorces his wife And she goes from him And belongs to another man, Will he still return to her? Will not that land be completely polluted? But you are a harlot with many lovers; Yet you turn to Me,’ declares the LORD. Lift up your eyes to the bare heights and see; Where have you not been violated? By the roads you have sat for them Like an Arab in the desert, And you have polluted a land With your harlotry and with your wickedness.” Jeremiah 3:1-2

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man, and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies, then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the LORD. Do not bring sin upon the land the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance." Deuteronomy 24:1-4

Yet Muhammad called good what God calls detestable:

These are the limits ordained by Allah. So do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (themselves as well as others). So if a husband divorces his wife (irrevocably), he cannot, after that, re- marry her until after she has married another husband and he has divorced her. In that case there is no blame on either of them if they re-unite.

what Muhammad taught breaks thou shall not commit adultry.

This breaks thou shall not bear false witness:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, **"Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, “You may say it.” **

 

[Lapell]

And my point is that it means murder, regardless of how you translate it. Because killing as a form of justice is COMMANDED (not just allowed, but COMMANDED) in the Old Testament.

And I remember having read a Jewish source some time ago pointing out that the commandment was meant to forbid murder.
Also, there are dispositions in the OT in case of legitimate defence where you had no choice but to kill your adversary you had to fight against (it had to be him or you!), like going to one of three shelter-cities and stay there for a while.
I think it also implicitly commands us to choose life, too. Not to get rid of people’s lives because they are handicapped or have an incurable disease, even if it hurts and we can’t stand the sight of it… not to kill ourselves if we are in a situation that seems most desperate… Does it make sense?

 

[Sister_Amy]

inJESUS, I wish you wouln’t go trying to change the topic.

It is to be noted that the OT war commands were specific in time within specific wars and circumstances, reflecting an environment already at war historically, and not a war manual forever as denoted by the Quran. Nowhere do we find in the OT the general command of : i was commanded to kill people until they say there is no deity but God.

(1) Specific time – there is no proof for this statement, unless you will admit that God ABROGATED those commands. Which is another topic entirely. These are commands for the Jews, the Jewish law. Not Jewish law “until such time as you advance enough to learn diplomacy.”

(2) Within specific wars? No, perhaps you should yourself read Deuteronomy. A son who was disrespectful to his parents was supposed to be killed. That has nothing to do with war. Deuteronomy 21:18-21. Go read it.

(3) Environment already at war historically – This is the case about Islam–a society already at war, and people now are trying to apply the rulings of war to a peaceful state, and it isn’t appropriate. But I was not talking abotu war. I am talking about the Jewish law.

Anyway, what does observing the sabbath become in Islam?

Yeah, totally unrelated.

regarding the other commandmants, i think one can find them in the Quran, though in a way sometimes that opposes the Bible. For example, marrying another man to be able to go back to your first husband is a big no no.

That’s not allowed. It’s not allowed to get married, in Islam, with the intention of divorce–which is what you described. Still not related.

The rest of your post wasn’t related either.

 

[Sister_Amy]

And I remember having read a Jewish source some time ago pointing out that the commandment was meant to forbid murder.
Also, there are dispositions in the OT in case of legitimate defence where you had **no choice but to kill your adversary **you had to fight against (it had to be him or you!), like going to one of three shelter-cities and stay there for a while.
I think it also implicitly commands us to choose life, too. Not to get rid of people’s lives because they are handicapped or have an incurable disease, even if it hurts and we can’t stand the sight of it… **not to kill ourselves **if we are in a situation that seems most desperate… Does it make sense?

Yes, this makes lots of sense, Lapell, thanks!

And also, this is exactly the Islamic position, exactly. Stated very clearly and concisely by the way.