The "ten commandments" and the quran.

[Angelos]

And my point is that it means murder, regardless of how you translate it. Because killing as a form of justice is COMMANDED (not just allowed, but COMMANDED) in the Old Testament.

What does this have to do with the OP of this thread?

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS, I wish you wouln’t go trying to change the topic.

i’m not.

(1) Specific time – there is no proof for this statement, unless you will admit that God ABROGATED those commands. Which is another topic entirely. These are commands for the Jews, the Jewish law. Not Jewish law “until such time as you advance enough to learn diplomacy.”

 

[Lapell]

Well, since the topic is “The 10 Commandments and the Qur’an”, I don’t see InJesus’ latest posts as not related to it, Sister Amy. Unless you meant something else that isn’t really so clear to us?

 

[Lapell]

As for killing in the OT, I agree with InJesus that it’s not prescriptive for today, but it was meant within the context of the narrative.
I hope no genocide of the past century was a result of having misinterpreted God’s command in the narrative parts of the Torah!!! Wouldn’t it be horrible?

 

[Lapell]

A son who was disrespectful to his parents was supposed to be killed. Deuteronomy 21:18-21. Go read it.

From my understanding, this means such a son would DESERVE to be killed. You also have to examine what the parents consider disrespectful, and if the son meant or not to be disrespectful.
Never forget, besides all the laws of the Torah about punishing the criminals and the sinners, that God never intended to eliminate the persons who have sinned, but rather the sins themselves. " I don’t want death to the sinner, but rather that he repent, turn away from sin and live." You find this in one of the Prophets. (Too bad that they are not included among the inspired books where God spoke loudly to us, according to the Qur’an!)

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… Just go on and read the Old Testament. Just read it. There’s lots of killing. Lots of stoning to death. Death by stoning is a very frequently mentioned punishment in Deuteronomy. The death penalty. There is, plain and simple, capital punishment in the Bible and that’s a fact…

And when you finish with the Old Testament, make sure you read the New Testament. There you’ll see that the law maker has fulfilled the law Himself, and given us a new convenant.

Father of truth, behold your son who makes atoning sacrifice to you.
Accept the offering: he died for me that I might have life.
Amen.

(Prayer by St Charbel)

 

[Sister_Amy]

From my understanding, this means such a son would DESERVE to be killed. You also have to examine what the parents consider disrespectful, and if the son meant or not to be disrespectful.
Never forget, besides all the laws of the Torah about punishing the criminals and the sinners, that God never intended to eliminate the persons who have sinned, but rather the sins themselves. " I don’t want death to the sinner, but rather that he repent, turn away from sin and live." You find this in one of the Prophets. (Too bad that they are not included among the inspired books where God spoke loudly to us, according to the Qur’an!)

A cursory reading of the text suggests otherwise. Deuteronomy does not say that the man deserved to be stoned, but rather that he needed to be stoned, and it was an obligation on the people to have him killed.

 

[inJESUS]

A cursory reading of the text suggests otherwise. Deuteronomy does not say that the man deserved to be stoned, but rather that he needed to be stoned, and it was an obligation on the people to have him killed.

While the OT supports the death penalty in principle, it places formidable obstacles to its implementation and the Talmud nearly drove the executioner to extinction Taking a “cursory” reading at the civil laws of the OT, with its numerous transgressions having a sentence of death, is missing to recognize that capital punishment in late biblical times was exceedingly rare because of vast procedural protections limiting, if not eliminating, its application. Jesus explains it clearly: a person who is to kill another because of sinfulness must be himself sinless. .there are so many transgressions that deserve death punishments including murder, idolatry, blasphemy, adultery, violating the Sabbath, wizardry, bestiality, false witness, and rebelling against one’s parents that not too many will stay alive if applied…that’s because the law shows how much humans transgress against God and how much they deserve death. Just reading in the OT that adultery must be punished by death does not give Muhammad the right to kill people in the name of “purity” when he himself used to have sex with 9 women on a single day, thaught temporary marriages, married a son’s ex-wife, possessed sexual slaves beside all his women, picked up the beautiful women for booty ecc…

 

[Sister_Amy]

While the OT supports the death penalty in principle, it places formidable obstacles to its implementation and the Talmud nearly drove the executioner to extinction Taking a “cursory” reading at the civil laws of the OT, with its numerous transgressions having a sentence of death, is missing to recognize that capital punishment in late biblical times was exceedingly rare because of vast procedural protections limiting, if not eliminating, its application. Jesus explains it clearly: a person who is to kill another because of sinfulness must be himself sinless. .there are so many transgressions that deserve death punishments including murder, idolatry, blasphemy, adultery, violating the Sabbath, wizardry, bestiality, false witness, and rebelling against one’s parents that not too many will stay alive if applied…that’s because the law shows how much humans transgress against God and how much they deserve death. Just reading in the OT that adultery must be punished by death does not give Muhammad the right to kill people in the name of “purity” when he himself used to have sex with 9 women on a single day, thaught temporary marriages, married a son’s ex-wife, possessed sexual slaves beside all his women, picked up the beautiful women for booty ecc…

The fact of the matter as I will once again delicately point out, is that the Old Testament, clearly demands the death penalty in more than one instance as a penal measure of a slew of sinful behaviors. That is a fact. And it is something for you to wrestle with if you can’t accept it.

Most of what you attributed to Muhammad saaws is not true. Please stick to the topic.

 

[Angelos]

The fact of the matter as I will once again delicately point out, is that the Old Testament, clearly demands the death penalty in more than one instance as a penal measure of a slew of sinful behaviors. That is a fact. And it is something for you to wrestle with if you can’t accept it.

What does this prove??? We know that the Torah is a LAW, and a Law naturally has death penalty too. The purpose of the Law was to teach people about sin and its consequences. The Son of Man, on the other hand, came to save the lost and give life.

Most of what you attributed to Muhammad saaws is not true. Please stick to the topic.

Keep denying history to be happy, but be sure that your happiness is based on lies and fiction.

 

[inJESUS]

The fact of the matter as I will once again delicately point out, is that the Old Testament, clearly

demands the death penalty in more than one instance as a penal measure of a slew of sinful behaviors.did i say otherwise? i said:

While the OT supports the death penalty in principle, it places formidable obstacles to its implementation and the Talmud nearly drove the executioner to extinction Taking a “cursory” reading at the civil laws of the OT, with its numerous transgressions having a sentence of death, is missing to recognize that capital punishment in late biblical times was exceedingly rare because of vast procedural protections limiting, if not eliminating, its application. Jesus explains it clearly: a person who is to kill another because of sinfulness must be himself sinless. .there are so many transgressions that deserve death punishments including murder, idolatry, blasphemy, adultery, violating the Sabbath, wizardry, bestiality, false witness, and rebelling against one’s parents that not too many will stay alive if applied…that’s because the law shows how much humans transgress against God and how much they deserve death.

That is a fact. And it is something for you to wrestle with if you can’t accept it.

 

[inJESUS]

Amy, a man who slept with 9 women in a single day, a man who had right hand possessions to fulfill his sexual desires, a man who allowed temporary marriages is the last man to pick a stone to kill you.

Jesus makes it pretty clear. A sinful man who himself deserves death does not have the right to kill you in the name of God and righteousness. If you are guilty of adultery, he will surely be guilty of any of the previously mentioned sins and has no right to kill you.

So instead of picking OT laws and and comparing them to Islamic legalism, you must read how they were written, how they were interpreted and what Jesus said about them before you listen to someone who gave a blind eye to Jesus’ words and picked and chose from the law with no theological reason or background.

 

[Lapell]

The fact of the matter as I will once again delicately point out, is that the Old Testament, clearly demands the death penalty in more than one instance as a penal measure of a slew of sinful behaviors. That is a fact. And it is something for you to wrestle with if you can’t accept it.

Most of what you attributed to Muhammad saaws is not true. Please stick to the topic.

Sister Amy, whether you like it or not, inJesus was telling you about how it actually happensin Judaism. Deuteronomy is part of the Torah which belongs to Judaism. So if Judaism has developed its commentaries of the Bible the way inJesus told you, who are you to say it’s irrelevant? The Bible comes from God, true, but through Judaism!
Therefore, very relevant of inJesus to have pointed it out.

 

[planten]

Yes or no

Do the Muslims respect the commandment from Moses;
“one shall not kill” ?

I had read part of the old testament. All was correct and very good. If the same law is enforced in the world today, it could help to improve the condition of the world.

Please note that all is there in the Quran. I give a simple rule for you. You mention anything good from the OT or NT. It will be available in the Quran. It will not be missing.

The good words of Jesus in the NT are worth reading and useful, if only one understands them. About the ten commandments, I do not know each one of them. If you could present each one then i could tell if it is there in Quran.

About Killing, it is there in Quran not to kill any one. A verse of the Quran says to kill a peson is as if you have killed the whole mankind. So the Quran does not allow the killing of any innocent person.

But to say " You shall not kill." That is too short a sentence and meaningless as far as the people of the world are practicing. They do not believe it.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

… But to say " You shall not kill." That is too short a sentence and meaningless as far as the people of the world are practicing. They do not believe it.

But do you believe it?

 

[Booklover]

I had read part of the old testament. All was correct and very good. If the same law is enforced in the world today, it could help to improve the condition of the world.

Please note that all is there in the Quran. I give a simple rule for you. You mention anything good from the OT or NT. It will be available in the Quran. It will not be missing.

The good words of Jesus in the NT are worth reading and useful, if only one understands them. About the ten commandments, I do not know each one of them. If you could present each one then i could tell if it is there in Quran.

About Killing, it is there in Quran not to kill any one. A verse of the Quran says to kill a peson is as if you have killed the whole mankind. So the Quran does not allow the killing of any innocent person.

But to say " You shall not kill." That is too short a sentence and meaningless as far as the people of the world are practicing. They do not believe it.

Please stop misleading us, Planten! This verse about not killing any innocent person is brought up all the time by you, Muslims, but what you omit is the fact that in Islam, only a Muslim is considered innocent!

Vickie

 

[Sister_Amy]

Please stop misleading us, Planten! This verse about not killing any innocent person is brought up all the time by you, Muslims, but what you omit is the fact that in Islam, only a Muslim is considered innocent!

Vickie

You’ve been deceived, Vickie–what you said just now is not true. If someone does injustice to a non-Muslim (towards whom justice means the same as it does toward Muslims), then Muhammad himself will be an advocate for the non-Muslim on the Day of Judgment, against the Muslim.

 

[Angelos]

You’ve been deceived, Vickie–what you said just now is not true. If someone does injustice to a non-Muslim (towards whom justice means the same as it does toward Muslims), then Muhammad himself will be an advocate for the non-Muslim on the Day of Judgment, against the Muslim.

How romantic indeed

 

[Lapell]

If he does, Amen to that! Still. the Judgment Itself belong to the Lord God Almighty, of course.

 

[Lapell]

And Muhammad himself will have to accept it the way will have decreed it. He, God Almighty, is the One who knows the hearts of all His human creatures.