The Ten Commandments

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IamOdd4God

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The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17)
  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image; thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
  4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
  5. Honor thy father and thy mother.
  6. Thou shalt not kill.
  7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  8. Thou shalt not steal.
  9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
  10. Thou shalt not covet.
Jesus summed up all of the commandments into two commandments…

Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
  1. To love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.
  2. To love your neighbor as yourself.
Reviewing these two commandments and contrasting them to the ten commandments we can clearly see that by obeying these two commandments we will obey all ten of the commandments.

1. To love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind.

If we do this we will obey the first four commandments, which all have to deal with our actions towards God…
  1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
  2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image; thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them.
  3. Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain.
  4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
2. To love your neighbor as yourself.

If we do this we will obey the remaining six commandments of God, which all have to deal with our actions towards others…
  1. Honor thy father and thy mother.
  2. Thou shalt not kill.
  3. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
  4. Thou shalt not steal.
  5. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
  6. Thou shalt not covet.
A man asked Jesus what good thing he must do to have eternal life, and Jesus told him to obey the commandments if he wants to enter into life (Matthew 19:16-17). Was Jesus lying? No! So therefore, if you want to have the right to the tree of life, then obey the commandments (Revelation 22:14).

In the name of Jesus,

Ken
 
IamOdd4God said:
… if you want to have the right to the tree of life, then obey the commandments
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We don’t have the right to anything. Salvation is a gift. If it were a right I could earn it. Obey God because you love Him. If you get anything from that what a bonus, but do not expect it.
 
b_justb said:
We don’t have the right to anything. Salvation is a gift. If it were a right I could earn it. Obey God because you love Him. If you get anything from that what a bonus, but do not expect it.
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I wasn’t talking about salvation, I was speaking about going to heaven. You are right, forgiveness (salvation) is a gift. Nobody can earn God’s forgiveness. By His grace (mercy) He has made His forgiveness available to you. God didn’t do this because of anything we’ve done to earn it; He did it because of His mercy He has for us.

What about after receiving God’s fogiveness? Does that mean you will enter heaven no matter what you say or do? No, to have the right to the tree of life you must obey the commandments…

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

…the opposite of this is just as true as what it states. If they who do (obey) the commandments have the right to the tree of life, then those who do not do (obey) the commandments will not have the right to the tree of life.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken
 
well, I don’t see any points to against this. 🙂
But let me ask you this. what is your point of this post?

Would this post indicate that we don’t need to “have faith” in order to “be saved”? After all, the 10 Commandments does not mention anything about “Having faith in God”? nor does it ask us to say “Jesus is my Savior”?
 
b_justb said:
I find quid pro quo Christianity disgusting.
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Quid pro quo Christianity? I have to ask why you even said that? Is it your way of getting the last word in? I simply quoted the Scripture, and you are rejecting it. That is your “free will” choice, but remember that there are consequences that comes with your choices.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken
 
water said:
well, I don’t see any points to against this. 🙂
But let me ask you this. what is your point of this post?

Would this post indicate that we don’t need to “have faith” in order to “be saved”? After all, the 10 Commandments does not mention anything about “Having faith in God”? nor does it ask us to say “Jesus is my Savior”?
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Greetings,

Not sure as to what you mean by saying that you don’t see any points to against this. But let me answer your questions…

What is my point of posting this post. We are instructed to preach the Word. That the day is coming when peple will not stay with sound doctrine; instead they will follow after false teachers, and will be lead away from the truth being turned away from God through false teachings (2Timothy 4:2-4). Because of this “MANY” people who believe that they are saved will be told to depart from Jesus (Matthew 7:21-23).

Am I indicating that we don’t need faith to be saved? Not at all, faith is absolutely necessary for salvation. Look at it with logic; will someone who has no faith ask God to forgive them of their sins? How could they unless they have faith?

Now let’s look at salvation, and going to heaven. The rich man asked Jesus what good thing he must do to have eternal life. Jesus told him to obey the commandments (Matthew 19:16-17). Did Jesus lie to the man? Absolutely not! So therefore, one would have to say that in order to enter into eternal life one MUST obey the commandments just as Jesus said.

In Revelation 22:14 we see God’s Word stating how those who do (obey) the commandments are blessed. Is God’s Word telling us a lie here? No! So if it is true that those who do (obey) the commandments are blessed, then isn’t it true that those who do not do (do not obey) the commandments are not blessed? Absolutely! And if it is true that those who do (obey) the commandments may have the right to the tree of life, then isn’t it true that those who do not do (do not obey) the commandments may not have the right to the tree of life? Yes!

So how can anyone say that obeying the commandments is not necessary to go to heaven, when according to the Bible it is absolutely necessary?

Now, the jailer asked what he must do to be saved. Notice the difference? the rich man asked Jesus what good thing must he do to have eternal life, where the jailer asked what he must do to be saved. The apostle Paul, and Silas told the jailer to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and he would be saved (Acts 16:30-31).

Two different questions having two different answers. The rich man asked what he must do to have eternal life, and the jailer asked what he must do to be saved. To “ENTER” into eternal life you MUSTobey the commandments. To be “SAVED” you MUST believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

How many people does the devil have deceived thinking that they are on their way to heaven, because they have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, yet they still disobey the commandments. Remember, not everyone who says Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY they that DO the will of God (Matthew 7:21). The only people who calls Jesus Lord are those who believe; non-believers DO NOT call Jesus Lord. There’s a difference between the hearers and the doers of the Word.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken
 
IamOdd4God said:
. . . if you want to have the right to the tree of life, then obey the commandments . . .
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Strictly speaking, no creatures can have any “rights” before God. Obey all the commandments, or even walk on water and you will have earned nothing. The fruit of the Tree of Life is God’s to give away as He sees fit and none of us have any standing to challenge His perfect justice.
 
So, in other words - you must obey the 10 Commandments.
I totally agree with that - Catholics believe the same thing.
 
Eden said:
I take objection to the lay-out of your Protestant commandments. Please read this article, if you are confused by my statement:

catholic.com/thisrock/2004/0403fea3.asp
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Greetings,

Didn’t the Catholic church combine two commandments into one, and divide a commandment into two so that they still have ten commandments?

The two commandments that the Catholic church combined are the first two commandments, which are…

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

and

Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, nor shall thou bow thyself before them or worship them.

…and the one commandment that the Catholic church divided is the last commandment, which is…

Thou shalt not covet.

…the Catholic church divided the last commandment into two parts making their last two commandments read as such…
  1. Thous shalt not covet thy neighbors wife.
  2. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors goods.
…these two commandments can be summed up into one commandment, which is “THOU SHALL NOT COVET.” This would cover both the wife and the goods.

In the Marine Corps, we had a saying: “Out of sight, out of mind” and this saying worked great for escaping nonsense work details. Well, let’s look at the commandment that is out of sight, out of mind on the Catholic lay-out of the ten commandments…

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

…many Catholics (though this will be argued against without doubt) commit idolatry not knowing that what they are doing is wrong. After all, how wrong can it be having a statue of Jesus? Well, according to Scripture, it is VERY wrong! Note what the Scripture says…

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above…”

Is Jesus in heaven above? Yes! Are not statues images of Jesus? Yes! According to Scripture is it allowed by God to make statues of Jesus? Absolutely not! It is forbiden as the Scripture says “THOU SHALT NOT…”

My grandpa used to have a saying; “people in glass houses shouldn’t cast stones.” I say that because before any Protestant says amen, they need to be warned that they too may be committing idolatry. Crosses inside any church is as graven as the statues inside Catholic churches. You may say, we don’t worship the cross the same way the Catholics worship statues. But think about that the next time you hear the preacher say, come kneel at the foot of the cross.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken
 
In some of the Protestant churches I have attended at times, there have been a cross present, usually behind or upon the pulpit.

It is not “idolatry” as no one believes it houses “a god” or is a “god form” in any way. “Come to the foot of the cross”, probably carries more of an understanding of the “perpetual sacrifice” Christ continues to offer on behalf of our sins…Hebrews speaks of him offering to God as does Revelation.

I no more believe Catholic statues of the saints are idolatry than I believe the cross is…Catholics do not believe the statue houses a “spirit” or a “god”…the Jewish understanding of idolatry was that the “idol” housed the god in some way…it not only represented the god…but was the god…they called their God the “Living God”…not a god of stone or clay or wood…BIG DIFFERENCE.

Friends Meeting Houses have no ornamentation in them…usually several “facing benches” at the front where the Clerk of the Meeting and the one chosen to end Meeting sit, or sometimes the Elders of the Meeting or “weighty Friends” who hold some importance in the Meeting.

We have down each side additional seating of two to three rows, which face one another as well.

No stained glass, no pictures, no cross, nothing which would detract us from “Centering down” in the Living Silence of worship.
 
Publisher said:
Which 10 Commandments are we to keep…Ex 20 or Ex 34?
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The commandments that were written on the second set of tablets was no different than the commandments that were written on the first set of tablets that Moses broke; note what the Scripture says…

Exodus 34:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou didst break.

…the LORD said “I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables.” So therefore, the commandments which was written on the second set of two tables of stone was no different than the commandmnets that were written on the first set of two tables of stone.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken
 
IamOdd4God said:
…many Catholics (though this will be argued against without doubt) commit idolatry not knowing that what they are doing is wrong. After all, how wrong can it be having a statue of Jesus? Well, according to Scripture, it is VERY wrong! Note what the Scripture says…

“Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above…”

Is Jesus in heaven above? Yes! Are not statues images of Jesus? Yes! According to Scripture is it allowed by God to make statues of Jesus? Absolutely not! It is forbiden as the Scripture says “THOU SHALT NOT…”
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God bless!

First, the whole Exodus 20:4 says:

“You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below”

So, let’s recap what you’re saying. You say that since the passage says that we cannot make an idol in the form of anything in heaven above then since Jesus in in the heaven above we cannot make statues of him. Right?

So first, do I have to destroy the picture of my Grandma since I believe she is in heaven above in order to avoid idolatry? So just to be on the safe side, should we destroy all pictures, photos and statues of people that die…just in case?

But the passage you the passage says more than you quote. It also says “or on the earth beneath or in the waters below”. Keeping the same standards (if we can’t have a statue of Jesus because he is in heaven) is it idolatry to keep my parents’ photograph in my wallet? They are on the earth after all. Of course I think your interpretation should include picture books for children because even animals live on earth (or in water).

This clearly doesn’t make sense, but there is more to it. The begging of the passage says that you cannot “…make for yourself an idol in the form of…” So, it is not simply about statues (or pictures or photos) but about idols. As was already mentioned, idols are not any statues, they are statues that are worshiped. We Catholics understand the difference between a chunk of wood and God (or a saint). We use the material images to help us in prayer to God - we do not actually pray to those things. There is really no difference between having a statue of Jesus or perhaps Mary and having a photo of my grandmother as long as I don’t use them as idols.

In Christ,
~G
 
Publisher said:
In some of the Protestant churches I have attended at times, there have been a cross present, usually behind or upon the pulpit.

It is not “idolatry” as no one believes it houses “a god” or is a “god form” in any way. “Come to the foot of the cross”, probably carries more of an understanding of the “perpetual sacrifice” Christ continues to offer on behalf of our sins…Hebrews speaks of him offering to God as does Revelation.

I no more believe Catholic statues of the saints are idolatry than I believe the cross is…Catholics do not believe the statue houses a “spirit” or a “god”…the Jewish understanding of idolatry was that the “idol” housed the god in some way…it not only represented the god…but was the god…they called their God the “Living God”…not a god of stone or clay or wood…BIG DIFFERENCE.

Friends Meeting Houses have no ornamentation in them…usually several “facing benches” at the front where the Clerk of the Meeting and the one chosen to end Meeting sit, or sometimes the Elders of the Meeting or “weighty Friends” who hold some importance in the Meeting.

We have down each side additional seating of two to three rows, which face one another as well.

No stained glass, no pictures, no cross, nothing which would detract us from “Centering down” in the Living Silence of worship.
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“From the very earliest days of the church there has been a tradition whereby images of our Lord, His holy mother, and of the saints are displayed in churches for the veneration of the faithful…this practice of placing sacred images in churches so that they can be venerated by the faithful is to be maintained. (Vatican II)

Veneration is a religious symbolic act giving honor to someone by honoring an image of that person, particularly applied to saints.

In traditional Christian Churches of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, veneration (Latin veneratio, Greek δουλια dulia), or veneration of saints, is a special act of honoring a dead person who has been identified as singular in the traditions of the religion, and through them honoring Godwho made them and in whose image they are made. Veneration is often shown outwardly by respectfully bowing or making the sign of the cross before a saint’s icon, relics, or statue. These items may also be kissed.

Again, the commandment is “THOU SHALT NOT MAKE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE; THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF BEFORE THEM OR SERVE THEM.”

How is bowing before statues of Saints “NOT” idolatry? Regardless if a person believes it houses a god or not does not make the violation go away; just bowing before a graven image violates the 2nd commandment.

As far as the Protestant symbolically kneels before the cross. That is an act of worshipping; worshipping God through graven images is idolatry, and it is not permitted.

Who wants us to disobey God, and violate the commandments? Satan does. He is a deceiver, and he has many people deceived. Millions of people are unknowingly breaking the commandments, because they are deceived.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken
 

Hi,
Matthew 22​

34 But when the Pharisees heard that he had silenced the Sad’ducees, they came together.
35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, to test him.
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
38 This is the great and first commandment.
39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

Comment: Jesus did not mention anything about images to the lawyer.
The catholic church understands the first commandment as Jesus,intends my humble opinion.

Peace, Onenow1:coffeeread:
 
40.png
IamOdd4God:
Didn’t the Catholic church combine two commandments into one, and divide a commandment into two so that they still have ten commandments?
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No, not really. The commandments aren’t numbered in the original scriptures so all we know for sure is that there are 10 of them.

Now,

I am the Lord thy God
Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Thou shalt not make for thyself an idol

…can pretty much be summarized as one and that is. It speaks about one and the same thing in detail. I’m to believe and worship God only. If I do that I will not break this commandment.

*You shall not covet
your neighbor’s wife.

AND
  1. You shall not covet
    your neighbor’s goods.*
Speaks about two ditrictint issues don’t you think?
 
IamOdd4God said:
“From the very earliest days of the church there has been a tradition whereby images of our Lord, His holy mother, and of the saints are displayed in churches for the veneration of the faithful…this practice of placing sacred images in churches so that they can be venerated by the faithful is to be maintained. (Vatican II)

Veneration is a religious symbolic act giving honor to someone by honoring an image of that person, particularly applied to saints.

In traditional Christian Churches of Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, veneration (Latin veneratio, Greek δουλια dulia), or veneration of saints, is a special act of honoring a dead person who has been identified as singular in the traditions of the religion, and through them honoring Godwho made them and in whose image they are made. Veneration is often shown outwardly by respectfully bowing or making the sign of the cross before a saint’s icon, relics, or statue. These items may also be kissed.

Again, the commandment is “THOU SHALT NOT MAKE ANY GRAVEN IMAGE; THOU SHALT NOT BOW THYSELF BEFORE THEM OR SERVE THEM.”

How is bowing before statues of Saints “NOT” idolatry? Regardless if a person believes it houses a god or not does not make the violation go away; just bowing before a graven image violates the 2nd commandment.

As far as the Protestant symbolically kneels before the cross. That is an act of worshipping; worshipping God through graven images is idolatry, and it is not permitted.

Who wants us to disobey God, and violate the commandments? Satan does. He is a deceiver, and he has many people deceived. Millions of people are unknowingly breaking the commandments, because they are deceived.

In the name of Jesus,

Ken
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IamOdd4God, before we get into this discussion, please do me a favor and define graven image and support your interpretations.

And just to make sure were understand each other please answer us these questions:
  • Is an image or a statue of a living person a graven image (such as a photo of my parents)? Yes or No?
  • Is an image of a dead person or a statue of a person who is already dead a graven image (such as the statue of Lincoln)? Yes or No
  • I an image or a statue of a saint a graven image (such as Mary)? Yes or No
  • I an image or a statue of Jesus Christ a graven image (such the statue of Christ in Rio de Janeiro)? Yes or No
  • Is an image or a statue of an animal a graven image (such as horse or a fish)? Yes or No
In Christ!
~G
 
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