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Robert_Burns
Guest
I just encountered an Individual who insists that the term Apocatastasis is synonomous with Universal salvation.
Agrree or Disagree?
Agrree or Disagree?
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Andreas_Hofer
Guest
I’ve never read much on either, but I would think that in their practical consequences they are (everyone is saved). Perhaps there is a distinction between apokatastasis whereby all are eventually schooled in charity and thus saved on those merits, versus a form of universal salvation in which all are saved regardless of their wills in the matter.
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floresco
Guest
newadvent.org/cathen/01599a.htm
Apocatastasis: A name given in the history of theology to the doctrine which teaches that a time will come when all free creatures will share in the grace of salvation; in a special way, the devils and lost souls.
That sounds very much like the doctrine of universal salvation.
Apocatastasis: A name given in the history of theology to the doctrine which teaches that a time will come when all free creatures will share in the grace of salvation; in a special way, the devils and lost souls.
That sounds very much like the doctrine of universal salvation.
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Barbkw
Guest
“…all free creatures will share in the grace of salvation; in a special way, **the devils **and lost souls.”
Devils are saved. They’re talking fallen angels?
I was listening to Bott Radio this morning, a preacher with a family was talking about disciplining his children, that he was harder with punishment than his children felt he should be. He said he purposely imposes harsher restrictions to train his children in the right ways of behavior, that the world will be much harsher yet.
He said that Gods’ punishment is a grace to us.
Yesterday, on Bott, two of their pastors/hosts talked about forgiveness and the difficultly they personally have believing that the sins they confess to God are actually forgiven.
I can understand their doubts and why I take solice in hearing those words of absolution.
Devils are saved. They’re talking fallen angels?
I was listening to Bott Radio this morning, a preacher with a family was talking about disciplining his children, that he was harder with punishment than his children felt he should be. He said he purposely imposes harsher restrictions to train his children in the right ways of behavior, that the world will be much harsher yet.
He said that Gods’ punishment is a grace to us.
Yesterday, on Bott, two of their pastors/hosts talked about forgiveness and the difficultly they personally have believing that the sins they confess to God are actually forgiven.
I can understand their doubts and why I take solice in hearing those words of absolution.
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floresco
Guest
I think so. These are theories that have been put forward by some theologians. As far as I know, the Church teaches neither apocatastasis nor universal salvation.
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josephdaniel29
Guest
No they are not necessarily synonymous. The Apocatastasis was a teaching of Origen of Alexandria. The term means restoration. Origen taught that the souls of all human beings (and angels and demons) were pre-existing, pre-cosmic spirits that were in a state of unity and harmony with God. Eventually there came the fall where all of these spirits were cast into disarray and disunity with God. He taught that one of those pre-existing souls was placed in the human body at its creation. The term apocatastasis refers to the final “restoration” of all those spirits and creation to the same state of pure harmony with God. That is what was condemned by the Fifth Ecumenical Council.
If anyone asserts the fabulous preexistence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema.
Some people use the term apocatastasis in a more general sense to mean that God will eventually save everyone without reference to Origen’s teaching on the pre-existence of souls. In that case the two terms could be more or less synonymous, but not necessarily so.
In Christ
Joe
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Hesychios
Guest
Great answer Joe.
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josephdaniel29
Guest
The Church specifically condemned the Apocatastasis at the Fifth Ecumenical Council, but there have been saints, such as St Gregory of Nyssa and St Issac the Syrian, who taught universal salvation without reference to Origen’s teaching on the final restoration. There actually is quite a compelling case to be made for universal salvation from the Holy Scriptures.
In Christ
Joe
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josephdaniel29
Guest
Thanks.
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Robert_Burns
Guest
I Thought those Teachings attributed to St Gregory of Nyssa were confirmed as Fraudulent?
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floresco
Guest
Did you see the Catholic Encyclopedia article I linked to above? It seems to me to be conflating these concepts. Is that your impression also?
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josephdaniel29
Guest
No I don’t think his teachings specifically have ever been condemned. I do think the Catholic Church generally teaches that there will be some people condemned to hell forever.
In Christ
Joe
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josephdaniel29
Guest
Yes I noticed that. It is fairly common in modern usage for the term apocatastasis to be used synonymously with the term universal salvation. Of course the apocatastasis necessarily includes universal salvation, so it’s not that surprising that people would conflate the two.
In Christ
Joe
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Robert_Burns
Guest
Joe ,
Sorry but that isnt what I meant. St Gregory of Nyssa’s Teachings have not been Condemned - what I was saying is that the Teachings about Apocatastasis attributed to have come from him , were fraudulent. He didnt hold that position because there are other teachings they know are his that seem to contradict those teachings leading historians to believe that they were fraudulent.
Pax
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