The term "Catholic Buddhist" or "Jesus Buddhist."

[1voice]

Actually, the Buddha’s rejection of the powers of the gods to liberate, is very similar to Christ’s rejection of the relevance of the “powers of this world”.

Jesus rejected the powers of this world as you affirm. How do Buddhists deal with the fact that Jesus’ stated mission was to reestablish a healthy relationship between his Father (the God of creation according to the scriptures that Jesus adhered to) … and mankind?

 

[1voice]

Buddhists are not particularly interested in the attributes of the various gods. We don’t particularly affirm or deny them. The gods are not relevant to the task of a Buddhist to attain enlightenment.

The gods can seek their own enlightenment, while we will seek ours.

As far as I can figure … Buddhism requires that people live according to a particular standard in order to eventually achieve enlightenment … which usually takes many multiple lifetimes.

 

[rossum]

I understand.
Q:
You mentioned that Jesus (many Buddhists believe) is a Bodhisattva, and not a Buddha,(and therefore) complete doctrinal correctness is not expected of Him.
Within the parameters of Buddhist thinking … How do Buddhists determine what is correct about Jesus … and what is not. Specific examples would be helpful … for a left-brain thinker like me…

Take Jesus’ two commandments: Love God and Love your neighbour. To a Buddhist these are not seen as two separate commandments, but one. We are neighbours not just to other humans but to all living things. Since gods are also living things then we are neighbours to all the gods as well and so we have to love them as ourselves. Basically we take the words of Jesus and interpret them with a Buddhist perspective.

Similarly with the Ten Commandments; the first few (Protestants and Catholics number them differently) up to and including the one about the Sabbath are irrelevant. Which gods we worship, or don’t worship, is not important. The rest of the Ten are useful and effectively mirror the five Buddhist moral rules for laymen:* avoid injuring living things.

• avoid taking what is not given.
• avoid sensual misconduct.
• avoid false and malicious speech.
• avoid intoxicants.

Again, things are re-interpreted from a Buddhist perspective.

rossum

 

[rossum]

So did Jesus attain status as a Buddha? I have not heard what Buddhism says about this.

Pass. He may have done so elsewhere, but no Buddha has appeared on Earth since Jesus died. The next Buddha to appear on Earth is the Maitreya, currently a Bodhisattva, and he won’t appear until the Buddhist religion ceases to exist.

So has Buddha’s past lives been documented about, that would make for some interesting reading.

Yes. They are called the “Jataka Tales” and contain a great deal of legendary, folk tale and other added material. They can however be very entertaining. Think of them as an Indian version of Aesop’s Fables and you won’t be far wrong. See here for a selection.

So when you say that the Buddha is not active in the material world, is it because he is beyond caring about others, or errr, why would he not be active.

He is not beyond caring, he is just beyond. The status of the Buddha after his final death is one of the unanswerable questions. To describe such a status is to describe nirvana, and words are not capable of such. The Zen story of the finger and the moon applies. Words can only ever be the finger, they cannot be the moon.

I would think [and know that this comes from a very limited understanding of Buddhism] that the Buddha would want everyone else to get enlightened and would he not want to help others reach this state as well.

Immediately after his enlightenment the Buddha considered whether or not it was worth the time and trouble to tell others of what he had discovered. After a discussion with one of the gods he decided that it was indeed worth his while and spent 45 years teaching others. However, not even a Buddha can avoid death. Everything that is born dies, even a Buddha.

rossum

 

[Izdaari]

Just IMHO: I don’t think you can really meld Buddhism and Christianity. They’re just too different. But you can be a Buddhist who adopts some things from Christianity, or a Christian who adopts some things from Buddhism (as the Trappist monk Thomas Merton did). Either way, how well that works is going to depend on how compatible are the things you adopt.

Personally, I incorporate some bits of Zen and Taoism into my Christianity. But I am not a Zen-Taoist-Christian, but rather a Christian who finds some Zen and Taoist insights useful and true. That came about because I was a childhood Christian who lost my faith in my teens, became a rationalist skeptic, and came back to Christianity using Zen and Taoism as stepping stones.

 

[Ahimsa]

Jesus rejected the powers of this world as you affirm. How do Buddhists deal with the fact that Jesus’ stated mission was to reestablish a healthy relationship between his Father (the God of creation according to the scriptures that Jesus adhered to) … and mankind?

Some Buddhists see “the Father” as analogous to “the Dharma” (“Truth”, “Reality”), so Jesus’ mission to re-establish a healthy relationship between mankind and Truth, could be seen as a very positive mission.

 

[Ahimsa]

Just IMHO: I don’t think you can really meld Buddhism and Christianity.

What would you say to those who suggest that you can’t really meld Anglicanism and Pentecostalism?

 

[Little_One0307]

Rossum,

Pass. He may have done so elsewhere, but no Buddha has appeared on Earth since Jesus died. The next Buddha to appear on Earth is the Maitreya, currently a Bodhisattva, and he won’t appear until the Buddhist religion ceases to exist.

Hmmm, I did not know that the Buddhist religions would cease to exist, is this because everyone will reach a state of nirvana, or why would it cease to exist.

Yes. They are called the “Jataka Tales” and contain a great deal of legendary, folk tale and other added material. They can however be very entertaining. Think of them as an Indian version of Aesop’s Fables and you won’t be far wrong. See here for a selection.

I love Aesop’s Fables, I will check them out.

Immediately after his enlightenment the Buddha considered whether or not it was worth the time and trouble to tell others of what he had discovered. After a discussion with one of the gods he decided that it was indeed worth his while and spent 45 years teaching others. However, not even a Buddha can avoid death. Everything that is born dies, even a Buddha.

I am taking from this that a Buddha could choose to reincarnate?

A couple of questions.

1. You mentione that there were gods, is Buddhism polythesistic?
2. Can a Bodhisattva is he chooses to reincarnate and does some bad things can he lose his status as a Bodhisattva? It is possilbe that one can regress and regress to nothingness due to negative karma?

Again thanks for answering my questions.

 

[Contarini]

Take Jesus’ two commandments: Love God and Love your neighbour. To a Buddhist these are not seen as two separate commandments, but one. We are neighbours not just to other humans but to all living things. Since gods are also living things then we are neighbours to all the gods as well and so we have to love them as ourselves.

I’ve tried to explain this to you before and failed, but here goes again:

In traditional, orthodox Christianity God is not a god. The equivalent to “gods” in Buddhism would not be God but angels in Christianity (not an exact equivalent, but in the sense that they are superhuman beings who cannot themselves save us but with whom some kind of beneficial relationship is possible).

Edwin

 

[Bookcat]

There can of course be various things that a Catholic can learn (with prudence …taking great care…to avoid syncretism and other dangers) from Buddhism.

But one remains a Catholic…a Christian.

This will be helpful:

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfmed.htm

 

[rossum]

Hmmm, I did not know that the Buddhist religions would cease to exist, is this because everyone will reach a state of nirvana, or why would it cease to exist.

Everything is impermanent, and Buddhism is no exception. At some point in the future Buddhism will no longer exist and will be restored by the Maitreya.

I am taking from this that a Buddha could choose to reincarnate?

Ideas vary. The more common opinion is that a Buddha can no longer reincarnate, he has attained the goal and just lives out the remainder of his current life. For more you need to get into Trikaya theory, which can get very abstruse and theological. A Bodhisattva has more of a choice.

A couple of questions.

1. You mentione that there were gods, is Buddhism polythesistic?

Yes, in that there are tens of thousands of gods. No, in that the gods are not important. Their main function in scripture is to bulk out the audience and to applaud in the right places.

1. Can a Bodhisattva is he chooses to reincarnate and does some bad things can he lose his status as a Bodhisattva?

Advanced Bodhisattvas can chose where and when they are reborn. They have no need to do evil to be reborn in one of the hells, they merely decide to be reborn there. Shakyamuni while still a Bodhisattva decided where and when he would be reborn on Earth for the last time.

It is possilbe that one can regress and regress to nothingness due to negative karma?

A very large amount of ink has been used discussing at which point on a Bodhisattva’s path he or she becomes irreversible, i.e. can no longer fall back into lower states without wishing to do so. The most common opinion is that when you are predicted by a Buddha to become a Buddha yourself then you are irreversible. Shakyamuni Buddha was predicted by Dipankara Buddha one of the earlier Buddhas.

An advanced stage Bodhisattva cannot even think of doing wrong. They automatically do the right thing.

rossum

 

[Izdaari]

What would you say to those who suggest that you can’t really meld Anglicanism and Pentecostalism?

I’m guessing that’s a reference to my “Anglicostal” identification?

But Anglicanism and Pentecostalism are the same in all the essentials that define Christianity. Pentecostalism (the non-wacky version, as practiced by AG and Foursquare, not any of the weird offshoots) at its core amounts amounts to Methodism + continuationism, and John Wesley called himself an Anglican all his life. Anglicanism is very broad and tolerant, insisting only on certain essentials, so there’s little gap in terms of doctrine. The major difference is in style, and I do prefer a style that is somewhere in between the two.

I made up that portmanteau word (“Anglicostal”) because though I’m a member of an AG church, my faith is largely due to C.S. Lewis, and further informed by N.T. Wright, and because of that I will always think of myself as at least an honorary Anglican.

 

[Little_One0307]

Rossum,

Advanced Bodhisattvas can chose where and when they are reborn. They have no need to do evil to be reborn in one of the hells, they merely decide to be reborn there. Shakyamuni while still a Bodhisattva decided where and when he would be reborn on Earth for the last time.

Hells? Do Buddhists believe that Hell is a state of the mind or a place? I am thinking that hell in Buddhism differes from Hell in Catholic theology.

Is there any really basic website that you could recommend a newbie such as myself, that is not complex and will give me an overview of Buddhism in general? I really appreciate again your time in answering my questions.

God bless.

 

[rossum]

Hells? Do Buddhists believe that Hell is a state of the mind or a place? I am thinking that hell in Buddhism differes from Hell in Catholic theology.

The major theological differences are that Buddhism has multiple hells (8 hot and 8 cold according to the Abhidharmakosa) and that all the hells are temporary, as are all the heavens.

Some Buddhists will see the hells as physical places. For others, the hells are mental states.

Is there any really basic website that you could recommend a newbie such as myself, that is not complex and will give me an overview of Buddhism in general? I really appreciate again your time in answering my questions.

I suggest starting with Buddhism in a Nutshell. Good sites are Buddhanet for general information and Access to Insight for the Pali Scriptures. Mahayana scriptures can be more difficult to follow, I would suggest starting with the Questions of Vimalakirti to get the flavour of the Mahayana sutras.

rossum

 

[Little_One0307]

The major theological differences are that Buddhism has multiple hells (8 hot and 8 cold according to the Abhidharmakosa) and that all the hells are temporary, as are all the heavens.

Some Buddhists will see the hells as physical places. For others, the hells are mental states.

I suggest starting with Buddhism in a Nutshell. Good sites are Buddhanet for general information and Access to Insight for the Pali Scriptures. Mahayana scriptures can be more difficult to follow, I would suggest starting with the Questions of Vimalakirti to get the flavour of the Mahayana sutras.

rossum

Rossum,

Thanks so much for these resources. If I have any questions I surely will post them here in this thread. You have been so much help in this. I am beginning to see much beauty in Buddhism.

Does one have hope in Buddhism like one has hope in Catholicism?

I will check out those websites on Thursday or later tonight. I got a lot of gardening work to do. Gardening is so peaceful.

 

[Sonny1954]

Honestly, I get Buddhism and Hinduism mixed up, so I might not be all that much help.

But I get the impression that many of those eastern religions are pretty malleable and don’t generally see God as a person (much less a Trinity of persons). Even more different is that they tend not to place the same level of importance on dividing truth from error and attempt to harmonize things, even if they are mutually contradictory.

So while catholics may (rightly, IMO) see the whole idea as an oxymoron, the far eastern mind doesn’t necessarily think there is such a thing as an oxymoron.

Some Hindus see God as impersonal but not all. There are “denominations” in Hinduism as there are in Christianity. For many Hindus there is a Trinity: Brahma (the creator), Vishnu (the preserver) and Shiva (the destroyer). These are all aspects of the one Brahmin. Brahmin is the paratman or ultimate reality.

 

[CopticChristian]

Rossum,

Thanks so much for these resources. If I have any questions I surely will post them here in this thread. You have been so much help in this. I am beginning to see much beauty in Buddhism.

Does one have hope in Buddhism like one has hope in Catholicism?

I will check out those websites on Thursday or later tonight. I got a lot of gardening work to do. Gardening is so peaceful.

You might want to check out these websites too as a compare and contrast.

newadvent.org/cathen/10483a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/03028b.htm

Another fatal defect of Buddhism is its false pessimism. A strong and healthy mind revolts against the morbid view that life is not worth living, that every form of conscious existence is an evil. Buddhism stands condemned by the voice of nature the dominant tone of which is hope and joy. It is a protest against nature for possessing the perfection of rational life. The highest ambition of Buddhism is to destroy that perfection by bringing all living beings to the unconscious repose of Nirvana. Buddhism is thus guilty of a capital crime against nature, and in consequence does injustice to the individual.

 

[rossum]

You might want to check out these websites too as a compare and contrast.

newadvent.org/cathen/10483a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/03028b.htm

Another fatal defect of Buddhism is its false pessimism. A strong and healthy mind revolts against the morbid view that life is not worth living, that every form of conscious existence is an evil. Buddhism stands condemned by the voice of nature the dominant tone of which is hope and joy. It is a protest against nature for possessing the perfection of rational life. The highest ambition of Buddhism is to destroy that perfection by bringing all living beings to the unconscious repose of Nirvana. Buddhism is thus guilty of a capital crime against nature, and in consequence does injustice to the individual.

I wonder where people get this perception of Buddhism. Does the Dalai Lama strike you as a pessimist?

rossum

 

[Little_One0307]

You might want to check out these websites too as a compare and contrast.

newadvent.org/cathen/10483a.htm

newadvent.org/cathen/03028b.htm

Another fatal defect of Buddhism is its false pessimism. A strong and healthy mind revolts against the morbid view that life is not worth living, that every form of conscious existence is an evil. Buddhism stands condemned by the voice of nature the dominant tone of which is hope and joy. It is a protest against nature for possessing the perfection of rational life. The highest ambition of Buddhism is to destroy that perfection by bringing all living beings to the unconscious repose of Nirvana. Buddhism is thus guilty of a capital crime against nature, and in consequence does injustice to the individual.

Hi,

I will go check those websites out and thank you for recommending them. What I am interested in here is to try to understand Buddhism from a Buddhism point of view. I am not in the process of converting or anything. The only way that I came to understand about the Catholic Church was to ask Catholics and those who were Catholic.

It does help to have a comparison.

God bless.

 

[CopticChristian]

I wonder where people get this perception of Buddhism. Does the Dalai Lama strike you as a pessimist?

rossum

If you open the link you will find the people that are speaking are speaking from the Catholic Encyclopedia.

In my understanding, having experienced Buddhism and rejected it, suffering is the big issue.