The Third Secret of Fatima *Was* Fully Revealed!

[Paul_Folbrecht]

There are a lot of approaches to debate. I don’t take the ‘bate’ as they say from people who argue from emotion and opinion rather than facts. It appears to me that those who are being so brash lack facts. You can’t win an argument from someone who is in a temper and putting forth unsubstantiated statements. Let’s drill down to the facts. If people want to challenge those of us who believe the Third Secret has not been fully revealed let them refute the facts presented. Take a look at Paul’s posts and then take a look at those on the other side of the argument…I rest my case.

Well-put.

The reason nobody will go there is that to discount the evidence you have to either discount the statements of many other Church officials or else engage in clearly ridiculous leaps of logic. Unfortunately, the latter seems to be no problem for many as long as they can thereby maintain their ‘safe’ & naive few of the matter.

 

[LilyM]

You’re telling the Queen of Heaven what she has a right to do?

What the… !!!

Not I, my friend - Christ, through His Church, has dogmatically stated that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle (ie that NO-ONE, even Mary, even Our Lord Himself, is going to produce any more public revelation!).

And Christ, through His church, has dogmatically taught that all the revelation that has come since St John died, all revelation that will come in the future, including the Marian apparitions, including Our Lord’s apparitions even, is PRIVATE revelation. And has dogmatically taught that private revelation is NOT binding upon the Church, only upon the individual seer(s)!

So it’s straight from Our Lord, through the infallible Church which passes on His teachings, that the apparitions of Fatima are not, and cannot possibly, be binding on anyone other than the seer(s) personally. I hope you’ll agree that He and they (to whom He gave the power to bind and loose) have the right to tell even the Queen of Heaven what to do - since she has NOT been given like power.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Not I, my friend - Christ, through His Church, has dogmatically stated that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle (ie that NO-ONE, even Mary, even Our Lord Himself, is going to produce any more public revelation!).

And Christ, through His church, has dogmatically taught that all the revelation that has come since St John died, all revelation that will come in the future, including the Marian apparitions, including Our Lord’s apparitions even, is PRIVATE revelation. And has dogmatically taught that private revelation is NOT binding upon the Church, only upon the individual seer(s)!

So it’s straight from Our Lord, through the infallible Church which passes on His teachings, that the apparitions of Fatima are not, and cannot possibly, be binding on anyone other than the seer(s) personally. I hope you’ll agree that He and they (to whom He gave the power to bind and loose) have the right to tell even the Queen of Heaven what to do - since she has NOT been given like power.

Lily M,

With all respect you are badly mistaken. The teaching is that all dogma has been revealed and there will be no new ‘dogmas’ revealed. The revelations of Mary contain no new dogma. They contain predictions and warnings. They urge the faithful to pray the rosary, etc. She explains that certain punishments can be avoided if man will only pray the rosary.

The ‘infallible’ Church that you cite in your commentary has approved the appearance of Mary at Fatima and many other appearances along with their revelations. So you might consider that Our Lord, through the Magisterium of the Church, has also approved them.

If you can explain the Miracle of the Sun at Fatima, or the accuracy of Mary’s predictions as they relate to the on-set of WWII, I’d appreciate it. The Miracle of the Sun was witnessed by nearly 80,000 people of all faiths, some as far away as 70 or 80 miles. The predictions She made with regard to events prior to WWII came true 100%.

No one is bound to believe the revelations because they are not dogmatic in nature. But one should be careful not to dismiss them without checking them out thoroughly as our Holy Church as accepted them.

As for me…I believe absolutely in Fatima based upon studying it and the approval of our wonderful Church.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[LilyM]

Lily M,

With all respect you are badly mistaken. The teaching is that all dogma has been revealed and there will be no new ‘dogmas’ revealed. The revelations of Mary contain no new dogma. They contain predictions and warnings. They urge the faithful to pray the rosary, etc. She explains that certain punishments can be avoided if man will only pray the rosary.

With all respect to you - the Church has specifically taught exactly as I have said, that all public revelation has ended and that no private revelation is binding upon the Church as a whole. From the CCC:

" There will be no further Revelation

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation … "

In other words one can totally ignore ALL private revelation and not be lacking for it.

The ‘infallible’ Church that you cite in your commentary has approved the appearance of Mary at Fatima and many other appearances along with their revelations. So you might consider that Our Lord, through the Magisterium of the Church, has also approved them.

It has said that it is permissible to believe in them - rather like the Imprimaturs and Nihil Obstats it gives to books - are we required then to read every (or any) book which is so approved?

No one is bound to believe the revelations because they are not dogmatic in nature. But one should be careful not to dismiss them without checking them out thoroughly as our Holy Church as accepted them.

As for me…I believe absolutely in Fatima based upon studying it and the approval of our wonderful Church.

I believe in Fatima too - but I don’t go so far as to call Our Ladys messages and requests there demands. That IS going too far, it IS placing them on the same level as dogma.

If a chastisement is coming it is coming, as she herself said, because we SIN, and because we fail to repent our sins (which, while it is good that she emphasised their importance, is not news). It’s not even certain that we’ve failed to consecrate Russia - there’s evidence that Sr Lucy herself said it had been done acceptably, she wrote to someone saying so, no? And if not, it’s no sin and no grounds for a chastisement either.

I don’t dismiss the messages of Fatima in the slightest, but again, I don’t place them on the level of dogma either, as some advocates seem to be doing.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

With all respect to you - the Church has specifically taught exactly as I have said, that all public revelation has ended and that no private revelation is binding upon the Church as a whole. From the CCC:

" There will be no further Revelation

66 "The Christian economy, therefore, since it is the new and definitive Covenant, will never pass away; and no new public revelation is to be expected before the glorious manifestation of our Lord Jesus Christ."28 Yet even if Revelation is already complete, it has not been made completely explicit; it remains for Christian faith gradually to grasp its full significance over the course of the centuries.

67 Throughout the ages, there have been so-called "private" revelations, some of which have been recognized by the authority of the Church. They do not belong, however, to the deposit of faith. It is not their role to improve or complete Christ’s definitive Revelation … "

In other words one can totally ignore ALL private revelation and not be lacking for it.

In this we agree. I never said that revelation is dogma. In fact I said that all dogma has been revealed. All Catholics are obliged to believe dogma but no Catholic is required to relieve revelation…even private revelation made public. I agree revelation does not belong to the deposit of faith precisely because revelation is not dogmatic. However it does not mean that it is not a divine communication aimed at warning and guiding mankind which you seem to deny.

It has said that it is permissible to believe in them - rather like the Imprimaturs and Nihil Obstats it gives to books - are we required then to read every (or any) book which is so approved?

Imprimatures and Nihil Obstats no longer guarentee that all that is contained in the book etc. is in communion with the Church. There are a lot of books out there rife with error that carry both.

I believe in Fatima too - but I don’t go so far as to call Our Ladys messages and requests there demands. That IS going too far, it IS placing them on the same level as dogma.

The word demand is yours not mine. Our Lady has admonished, suggested and requested. You have free will to do whatever whether it relates to dogma or revelation.

If a chastisement is coming it is coming, as she herself said, because we SIN, and because we fail to repent our sins (which, while it is good that she emphasised their importance, is not news). It’s not even certain that we’ve failed to consecrate Russia - there’s evidence that Sr Lucy herself said it had been done acceptably, she wrote to someone saying so, no? And if not, it’s no sin and no grounds for a chastisement either.

Please take the time to read The Secret Still Hidden or The Devil’s Final Battle as both cover this topic extensively. Both books explain exacty why Russia is not consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Mary as she requested and why so many Catholics believe that Sr. Lucy said tthat the whole secret as been revealed. It simply isn’t true and there is compelling evidence to support the claim.

Portugal bishops have twice consecrated the country to the Sacred Heart of Mary. About thirty years after doing so the first time, the contry was converted from a majority masonic country to a Catholic Country. At Fatima Mary said that the faith would always be preserved in Portigal. Now look at Russia. The Church is being prosecuted and there are fewer that 500,000 Catholics left in the country and she is once again spreading her errors throughout the world. Hardly the kind of conversion I would expect if the country had actually been consecrated to Her Sacred Heart.

I don’t dismiss the messages of Fatima in the slightest, but again, I don’t place them on the level of dogma either, as some advocates seem to be doing.

You continue to confuse dogma with revelation. I quite agree that they are not on the same level, however I believe revelations are a divine communications once investigated and approved by Holy Mother Church. So why don’t you believe or are you saying the Church is wrong in their approval?

Also, you didn’t ask the questions I posed in my earlier post. It would be helpful if you would.

We are not as far apart as you might think, I simply think you dismiss approved revelation too easily.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

I believe in Fatima too - but I don’t go so far as to call Our Ladys messages and requests there demands. That IS going too far, it IS placing them on the same level as dogma.

I do not believe she ‘demanded’ anything either. But a request from Heaven is a demand to me, I’ll tell you that!

If a chastisement is coming it is coming, as she herself said, because we SIN, and because we fail to repent our sins (which, while it is good that she emphasised their importance, is not news). It’s not even certain that we’ve failed to consecrate Russia - there’s evidence that Sr Lucy herself said it had been done acceptably, she wrote to someone saying so, no? And if not, it’s no sin and no grounds for a chastisement either.

I purposefully avoided the whole consecration issue because it is a separate issue and even more thorny.

The letter which purported to have Lucy saying the '84 consecration was valid was very suspicious. Its origin was not verified, it was very terse, was typed when she never typed, and used rather odd wording.

I never used to understand this issue at all. Because I could not see any possible motive: WHY would the consecration fail to be done as requested???

How naive I was then. Can you imagine the cry of protests - public and private - if the Pope with every Catholic bishop in the world were to pray for Russia’s “conversion”? As in Russia only - Russia singled out as THE BAD NATION full of BAD PEOPLE that need to CONVERT. What a disaster for the ‘ecumenical’ movement! What an insult to certain people - people like Mikhail Gorbachev, who was in the Vatican meeting with Bertone the day after the Fatima announcement!

Yet this is EXACTLY what Our Lady requested: She requested that Russia - and only Russia - be specially consecrated to Her, and its conversion prayed for.

When you can see the motive for NOT doing it as requested - and you know it was not done as requested - it makes sense. It makes sense that consecrating the whole world, or consecrating without the bishops in union, is simply not the same thing. It doesn’t matter that Russia’s “in the world” - it’s not the same thing.

I have no doubt at all that our beloved pontiff John Paul would have LOVED to have done it just as requested - and I am quite sure his opponents in the Vatican would have blocked that at every step. Not to mention all of the “independent” bishops who would SURELY have declined to participate in something so offensive.

Our Lady promised that Russia would be ‘converted’ after such consecration. It has now been a quarter century from the alleged consecration.

Just a week or two ago, the Lifesitenews feed included a story about a movie just made about the abortion industry in Russia - a country where the average woman has six abortions, and where later term abortions are EXTREMELY common. The maker of this film stated that in his time at the abortion ‘hospital’ on multiple occasions he heard babies cry during ‘procedures’ there.

Russia is also now recognized as the child pornography & prostitution capital of the world.

Yes, there are many ways ‘conversion’ could be strictly defined, but this is NOT a nation that has converted to real Christianity in any sense.

I don’t dismiss the messages of Fatima in the slightest, but again, I don’t place them on the level of dogma either, as some advocates seem to be doing.

I’m not doing that. Ferrara and Socci aren’t doing that. I think Gruner could be said to be coming off that way. I still really don’t care for his style (at least).*

 

[barb_finnegan]

Yes, the Secret WAS fully revealed, in 2000!

Even Sister Lucia said so…‘there are no more secrets’. Why would she lie?

I would be very wary of anything Fr. Gruner or anyone associated with him says. He’s not in good standing with the Church [disobedient to his Bishop].

Sometimes I get things from Fr. Gruner’s ‘Fatima Crusader’ in the mail. It goes right in the trash!

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

Yes, the Secret WAS fully revealed, in 2000!

Even Sister Lucia said so…‘there are no more secrets’. Why would she lie?

I would be very wary of anything Fr. Gruner or anyone associated with him says. He’s not in good standing with the Church [disobedient to his Bishop].

Sometimes I get things from Fr. Gruner’s ‘Fatima Crusader’ in the mail. It goes right in the trash!

Wow; another seemingly knee-jerk comment from someone who obviously did not even read (or understand) the material in the thread.

There is no credible evidence that Sr. Lucy said what you claim here. Furthermore, when Cardinal Bertone was asked that very question, on Italian TV, his response was hedging and evasive, but basically ‘no’!

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Wow; another seemingly knee-jerk comment from someone who obviously did not even read (or understand) the material in the thread.

There is no credible evidence that Sr. Lucy said what you claim here. Furthermore, when Cardinal Bertone was asked that very question, on Italian TV, his response was hedging and evasive, but basically ‘no’!

So instead of calling Sr Lucia a liar you chose to call the Church a liar?

Here is a link to the Theological Commentary on the Third Secret by (then) Cardinal Ratiznger in which it states that the Third Secret has been revealed.

Third Secret of Fatima-Joseph Cardinal Ratizinger

And here is a link to where Sr Lucia says that the Secret has been revealed.

Sr. Lucia: “No More Mysteries in Fátima Secret”

Now tell me who is not reading or understanding the actual facts as put out by the Church and Seer who know what the actual Third Secret is.

 

[benedict_XVIII]

Excuse my ignorance.
Sometimes I feel I need a little help.
Why did Jesus say to the Apostles, before His departure:** I shall send you the Comforter, He will lead you to the whole Truth ?**

Doeas that mean that the Bible is not the whole Truth ?

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Yes, the Secret WAS fully revealed, in 2000!

Even Sister Lucia said so…‘there are no more secrets’. Why would she lie?

I would be very wary of anything Fr. Gruner or anyone associated with him says. He’s not in good standing with the Church [disobedient to his Bishop].

Sometimes I get things from Fr. Gruner’s ‘Fatima Crusader’ in the mail. It goes right in the trash!

Barb,

You simply see only one side of the discussion because from your remarks you don’t know the facts that support the other side. There is compelling evidence that the Third Secret has not been fully revealed. Why don’t you read the information and then decide?

Isn’t it interesting that the Vatican choose to publically discipline Fr. Gruner over Fatima but has not disciplined any of the Priest, Bishops or Cardinals involved in the sex abuse scandles etc. So out of hundreds of thousands of clergy, the Vatican has singled out this one priest to make their one and only public disciplinary announcement. I think this is absurd on the face of it.

Do you know that Sr. Lucy was prevented from appearing in public for years and many of these so called statements from her came from Cardinal Bertone when he interviewed her alone?

Do you know how many positions and stories Cardinal Bertone has had to retract or change?

Did you know that in Sr. Lucy’s writings she made no statements about Fatima that would support Cardinal Bertone’s accounts.

When I receive the ‘Fatima Crusader’ in the mail, I read it. I also read Cardinal Bertone’s statements, the Vatican statements, Ferrara’s statements, Father Paul Kramer’s statements, etc. In this way I get to see and measure both sides of the issue. I would encourage you to dig a little deeper.

Aldous Huxley said, “Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored”.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[barb_finnegan]

So instead of calling Sr Lucia a liar you chose to call the Church a liar?

Here is a link to the Theological Commentary on the Third Secret by (then) Cardinal Ratiznger in which it states that the Third Secret has been revealed.

Third Secret of Fatima-Joseph Cardinal Ratizinger

And here is a link to where Sr Lucia says that the Secret has been revealed.

Sr. Lucia: “No More Mysteries in Fátima Secret”

Now tell me who is not reading or understanding the actual facts as put out by the Church and Seer who know what the actual Third Secret is.

Thank you Brother David……you hit it on the head!

The EWTN link says it exactly.

As a recent poster put it, I was giving a ‘knee jerk’ reaction. Why ‘knee jerk’ ? I 'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone about this.

I believe that Our Lady appeared at Fatima. In fact, I went there four times on pilgrimage in the 1980s with the Blue Army. On my last one, in 1988, I remember I saw Fr. Gruner-his group was staying at the same hotel my group was at. I also remember that he was not allowed to set foot on the Shrine grounds by the priests in charge. So he said Mass for his group…a Traditional Latin Mass, if I recall…in a glassed-in lounge off the main lobby. He was ‘persona non grata’, as far as the authorities in Fatima were concerned!

In a word, I believe that the Secret was fully revealed in 2000…I believe that Sister Lucia was not ‘silenced’, and she really did say ‘there are no more secrets’…and that Russia was consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by John Paul II in 1984.

Let’s stop ‘biting one another’ and turn our attention to doing what Our Lady has asked us to do-especially in these days when the Faith is under such attack!

 

[pnewton]

“the Secret should not fall into alien hands”? What does that even mean?

An illusion an upcomijng alien invasion?

Everytime this topic comes up, and it is not required to adhere to any revelation, much less the spin-offs of revelation, I am reminded of how no one is even looking at the word “revelation”, meaning to reveal, as oppose to obscure. The desire to make some secret cabalistic message out of this is not what the Catholic Church is all about. That is Gnosticism, not Catholicism. What we believe is open and available for all, not sealed up in secret Vatican catacombs.

If Mother Angelica agrees that there is something fishy, I will disagree with her. I would like to point out that the prudent thing for her would be the course she has chosen not to pursue supposed secret knowledge.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

Thank you Brother David……you hit it on the head!

The EWTN link says it exactly.

As a recent poster put it, I was giving a ‘knee jerk’ reaction. Why ‘knee jerk’ ? I 'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone about this.

I believe that Our Lady appeared at Fatima. In fact, I went there four times on pilgrimage in the 1980s with the Blue Army. On my last one, in 1988, I remember I saw Fr. Gruner-his group was staying at the same hotel my group was at. I also remember that he was not allowed to set foot on the Shrine grounds by the priests in charge. So he said Mass for his group…a Traditional Latin Mass, if I recall…in a glassed-in lounge off the main lobby. He was ‘persona non grata’, as far as the authorities in Fatima were concerned!

In a word, I believe that the Secret was fully revealed in 2000…I believe that Sister Lucia was not ‘silenced’, and she really did say ‘there are no more secrets’…and that Russia was consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary by John Paul II in 1984.

Let’s stop ‘biting one another’ and turn our attention to doing what Our Lady has asked us to do-especially in these days when the Faith is under such attack!

I’m not biting anyone. If you believe Russia has been consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Mary…explain their behavior. Explain why the Church is being persecuted and there are less than 500,000 Catholics left in the whole country. Does that sound like they have been converted?

I don’t believe, as so many others don’t believe, that we have the whole story. I’ve seen and read the Vatican accounts on this and their disgraceful treatment of Father G. I’ve also read the evidence from the those that hold that the secret has not been fully disclosed, have you? Your statement that Sr. Lucy was never silenced flys in the face of how she was treated in the final years of her life which is a matter of record. This evidence and all supporting citations have been laid out in Ferrara’s book, The Secret Still Hidden.

No Pope has ever consecrated Russia, by name, to the Mary’s Immaculate Heart. If you have a citation that would say otherwise I would be interested in seeing it.

If we are going to do what our Lady asked us to do we should start by making sure the controversy over Third Secret is resolved and that Russia is consecrated, by name.

The Third Secret can be resolved by releasing Lucy’s single page explanation of the .etc which follows our Lady’s words as conveyed by Sr. Lucy, “In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved, etc.” There are many witnesses to the existance a second envelope kept in the papal apartments containing the single page of approximately 25 lines.

God Bless,

Iowa Mike

 

[Pam_Folbrecht]

An illusion an upcomijng alien invasion?

Everytime this topic comes up, and it is not required to adhere to any revelation, much less the spin-offs of revelation, I am reminded of how no one is even looking at the word “revelation”, meaning to reveal, as oppose to obscure. The desire to make some secret cabalistic message out of this is not what the Catholic Church is all about. That is Gnosticism, not Catholicism. What we believe is open and available for all, not sealed up in secret Vatican catacombs.

If Mother Angelica agrees that there is something fishy, I will disagree with her. I would like to point out that the prudent thing for her would be the course she has chosen not to pursue supposed secret knowledge.

Among the non-sequiturs evident here is your assertion that because the knowledge is secret it is akin to some sort of gnosticism and thus something condemned by the Church. Are you stating that there were no secrets? Did Lucy not use the word ‘Secret’ constantly in her discussion of the apparitions??

Ironically, it wasn’t supposed to be hidden from the public forever - that’s the whole point here.

This is essentially another knee-jerk reaction, which I understand (since I used to think the same way).

Nobody here will actually respond to a single piece of the evidence! If you wanted to make an actual argument - if you were able to - you’d simply go through the points one by one and refute them. You’d go through all the quotes from all these different popes, priests, cardinals, and the seer and explain how either (1) they’re false or (2) they’re in harmony with the revealed part of the Secret.

The fact that none of you will even attempt this is not at all surprising, but telling.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

So instead of calling Sr Lucia a liar you chose to call the Church a liar?

Here is a link to the Theological Commentary on the Third Secret by (then) Cardinal Ratiznger in which it states that the Third Secret has been revealed.

Third Secret of Fatima-Joseph Cardinal Ratizinger

And here is a link to where Sr Lucia says that the Secret has been revealed.

Sr. Lucia: “No More Mysteries in Fátima Secret”

I find your tactics to be disingenuous and your arguments convincing only to those who won’t carefully read what you refer to, look at the evidence, and think.

Nobody has denied that part of the Secret has been revealed. The source you cite simply does not firmly state that all of the Secret has been revealed - it implies it, I’ll certainly acknowledge.

It is laughable for you to offer a statement from Bertone giving us Sr. Lucy’s words when it is Bertone’s credibility is exactly what is called into question by the entire matter!

It seems you are unable to properly distinguish between churchmen and Church - a critical distinction indeed! Among the most critical! I fear to see how you’d fare in an apologetics debate with a learned Protestant for that reason (if you’d engage in one).

Read this carefully: I am not calling the Church a liar.

We are going to nail down the specifics of this matter now to demonstrate that you either do not understand the nature of Catholic authority or you are being disingenuous.

To summarize, because I don’t believe Cardinal Bertone has been forthright in this matter, you tell me that I call ‘The Church’ a liar. Are you really going to go on record as stating that believing that a single churchman has been less than completely forthcoming about something is calling the Church liar?

If you cannot make the necessary differentiation here, I think you would be very surprised indeed at many document events in Church history! I can provide examples.

How is it that infallibility is granted to Bertone’s statement, but not even to a Pope’s except when speaking ‘from the Chair’?

You are aware, I presume that the Magisterium is defined as all of the bishops speaking in unison and is infallible in the area of faith and morals when it makes a statement. Could you explain how that relates to Cardinal Bertone speaking on his own?

Could you speak to these points before daring to accuse me, others here, Mother Angelica, Mr. Socci, and millions of others of ‘calling the Church liar’?

Could you explain why the Pope himself has thanked Mr. Socci for his work after he publicly accused Bertone of lying?

Could you explain why the Pope has not settled this matter in Bertone’s favor as he certainly would if it were as clear as you proclaim?

And could you perhaps consider making some attempt to speak to the actual evidence instead of completely ignoring?

Nobody here will actually respond to a single piece of the evidence! If you wanted to make an actual argument - if you were able to - you’d simply go through the points one by one and refute them. You’d go through all the quotes from all these different popes, priests, cardinals, and the seer and explain how either (1) they’re false or (2) they’re in harmony with the revealed part of the Secret.

The fact that none of you will even attempt this is not at all surprising, but telling.

 

[Paul_Folbrecht]

An illusion an upcomijng alien invasion?

Everytime this topic comes up, and it is not required to adhere to any revelation, much less the spin-offs of revelation, I am reminded of how no one is even looking at the word “revelation”, meaning to reveal, as oppose to obscure. The desire to make some secret cabalistic message out of this is not what the Catholic Church is all about. That is Gnosticism, not Catholicism. What we believe is open and available for all, not sealed up in secret Vatican catacombs.

If Mother Angelica agrees that there is something fishy, I will disagree with her. I would like to point out that the prudent thing for her would be the course she has chosen not to pursue supposed secret knowledge.

Among the non-sequiturs evident here is your assertion that because the knowledge is secret it is akin to some sort of gnosticism and thus something condemned by the Church. Are you stating that there were no secrets? Did Lucy not use the word ‘Secret’ constantly in her discussion of the apparitions??

Ironically, it wasn’t supposed to be hidden from the public forever - that’s the whole point here.

This is essentially another knee-jerk reaction, which I understand (since I used to think the same way).

I’ll repeat this:

Nobody here will actually respond to a single piece of the evidence! If you wanted to make an actual argument - if you were able to - you’d simply go through the points one by one and refute them. You’d go through all the quotes from all these different popes, priests, cardinals, and the seer and explain how either (1) they’re false or (2) they’re in harmony with the revealed part of the Secret.

The fact that none of you will even attempt this is not at all surprising, but telling.

(And that’s far from all of the argument, too.)

 

[VitaminC]

So instead of calling Sr Lucia a liar you chose to call the Church a liar?

Here is a link to the Theological Commentary on the Third Secret by (then) Cardinal Ratiznger in which it states that the Third Secret has been revealed.

Third Secret of Fatima-Joseph Cardinal Ratizinger

And here is a link to where Sr Lucia says that the Secret has been revealed.

Sr. Lucia: “No More Mysteries in Fátima Secret”

There are also two other published interviews done after the last consecration attempt where Sr. Lucia stated that none of the consecration attempts satisfied the requests of the Blessed Virgin.

One of these interviews was in the September, 1985 issue of “Sol de Fatima”, and the other was a published interview with Enrique Romero from 1987.

In my opinion, Cardinal Bertone lied and produced fake documents, just as he lied about so many other things, including the Third Secret. In the book, “The Secret Still Hidden”, you’ll find an appendix in the back entitled “101 Grounds for Doubting Cardinal Bertone’s Account.”

Sr. Lucia did not give her assurances as to the consecration or to the release of the full Third Secret.

 

[LilyM]

I’m not biting anyone. If you believe Russia has been consecrated to the Sacred Heart of Mary…explain their behavior. Explain why the Church is being persecuted and there are less than 500,000 Catholics left in the whole country. Does that sound like they have been converted?

I do believe Russia was probably successfully consecrated under JP2.

I believe the end of over 75 years of Communism in Russia (probably the second greatest evil of the 20th century after abortion) - and across the rest of Eastern Europe - within a matter of years from that consecration of JP2 stems from it. I believe THAT in and of itself sounds like a very promising beginning of conversion.

I believe that - to a God who took thousands of years after the Fall to send His own son, and who two millennia after that son came has not yet come again as He promised He would - 25 years is NOTHING, not even a blink of the eye.

And I think the main problem is your own impatience and your insistence that if God has really acted in this matter He would act on YOUR timetable and do the things YOU think He should do!

Above all, I am not going to take the word of Third Secret conspiracy theorists over that of the Church. To the Church I am bound to the greatest possible extent to give my obedience, not to Fr Gruner, his followers, or even Our Lady of Fatima herself.

 

[Iowa_Mike]

There are also two other published interviews done after the last consecration attempt where Sr. Lucia stated that none of the consecration attempts satisfied the requests of the Blessed Virgin.

One of these interviews was in the September, 1985 issue of “Sol de Fatima”, and the other was a published interview with Enrique Romero from 1987.

In my opinion, Cardinal Bertone lied and produced fake documents, just as he lied about so many other things, including the Third Secret. In the book, “The Secret Still Hidden”, you’ll find an appendix in the back entitled “101 Grounds for Doubting Cardinal Bertone’s Account.”

Sr. Lucia did not give her assurances as to the consecration or to the release of the full Third Secret.

I need more Vitamin C…Amen!

God Bless,

Iowa Mike