The Third Secret

[redrosetea]

Thanks for taking to time to post the link, but I am not interested in conspiracy theories

I will stick with sources I am comfortable with like the Pope

 

[redrosetea]

This site is devoted to promoting the message of Fatima, particularly from the viewpoint of Fr. Nicholas Gruner, and to promoting The Fatima Crusader. While the site does present some useful information regarding the apparition, we have to advise extreme caution. The Fatima Network, and its website, is headed by Fr. Nicholas Gruner. Fr. Gruner has been suspended from priestly ministry and does not have ecclesiastical approval of his activities. Gruner has been in conflict with Church authorities for over 20 years because of his insistence that the Fatima message has gone unheeded. He has rejected the assurances of both Pope John Paul II and Sister Lucia, the surviving Fatima seer, that the directive of the Virgin Mary has been fulfilled, and Russia has been consecrated to her Immaculate Heart.

 

[BSHoop96]

This site is devoted to promoting the message of Fatima, particularly from the viewpoint of Fr. Nicholas Gruner, and to promoting The Fatima Crusader. While the site does present some useful information regarding the apparition, we have to advise extreme caution. The Fatima Network, and its website, is headed by Fr. Nicholas Gruner. Fr. Gruner has been suspended from priestly ministry and does not have ecclesiastical approval of his activities. Gruner has been in conflict with Church authorities for over 20 years because of his insistence that the Fatima message has gone unheeded. He has rejected the assurances of both Pope John Paul II and Sister Lucia, the surviving Fatima seer, that the directive of the Virgin Mary has been fulfilled, and Russia has been consecrated to her Immaculate Heart.

I’m with you Redrosetea, in areas of division…follow the lead of the Church. Not individual priests but the Church and the Pope.

 

[redrosetea]

I’m with you Redrosetea, in areas of division…follow the lead of the Church. Not individual priests but the Church and the Pope.

That little snippet I posted came from the website Catholic Culture…It’s a large well run site and it evaluates websites that claim to be catholic

 

[VitaminC]

This site is devoted to promoting the message of Fatima, particularly from the viewpoint of Fr. Nicholas Gruner, and to promoting The Fatima Crusader. While the site does present some useful information regarding the apparition, we have to advise extreme caution. The Fatima Network, and its website, is headed by Fr. Nicholas Gruner. Fr. Gruner has been suspended from priestly ministry and does not have ecclesiastical approval of his activities. Gruner has been in conflict with Church authorities for over 20 years because of his insistence that the Fatima message has gone unheeded. He has rejected the assurances of both Pope John Paul II and Sister Lucia, the surviving Fatima seer, that the directive of the Virgin Mary has been fulfilled, and Russia has been consecrated to her Immaculate Heart.

There were no “direct” assurances by Pope JP II or Sr. Lucia as to the fulfillment of the directive of the second secret, or as to the revelation of the contents of the Third Secret. None whatsoever. All we have really is Cardinal Bertone saying that these two gave him their assurances, and that he was passing it on. That doesn’t help much when you consider the fact that Bertone and Sodano are the two ‘primarily’ behind the disputed 2000 release.

Aside from Bertone’s second hand assurances, all we have is this:

One late interview of Sister Lucia where she claimed the directives were satisfied, and where the published contents of this interview were known to have been falsified. A priest present at this interview made an official statement that the published booklet was “full of lies.” Then the man who wrote the booklet more or less admitted to this under pressure, saying his “memory was bad” and that the contents had been “reconstructed.”

 

[VitaminC]

I’m with you Redrosetea, in areas of division…follow the lead of the Church. Not individual priests but the Church and the Pope.

Fine then. Follow the Pope. Follow Pope John Paul II when, during a beatification ceremony of two of the Fatima seers in 2000, Jacinta and Francisco, he said this:

“The message of Fatima is a call to conversion, alerting humanity to have nothing to do with the ‘dragon’ whose ‘tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth’ (Apoc. 12:4).”

It’s available on the Vatican’s website, as I recall. And it’s more authoritative than any release orchestrated by Cardinal Sodano and Bertone because it comes directly from the mouth of the then Pope.

Now keep in mind that Catholic theologians have interpreted this to be a reference to the Catholic clergy coming under the control of satan while events unfold in the Apocalypse. The ratio is 1/3, the same ratio of angels that defected in service of satan before being cast out of heaven. And with those 1/3 of priests, they will undoubtedly take millions of laypersons along with them.

And then we have this from the current Chief Exorcist in Rome from an interview with 30 days Magazine, where he says that demons have installed themselves in the Vatican:

christianorder.com/features/features_2004/features_mar04_bonus.html

The content of the above declaration by Pope John Paul II is very much in line with what Malachi Martin wrote in his book about the Third Secret of Fatima, “Windswept House.” It’s also consistent with comments attributed to Sr. Lucia to look to Apocalypse 8 to 13 to understand the third secret, and what Cardinal Ratzinger said in 1984 that the third secret deals with the importance of the “end times”.

 

[VitaminC]

I found this on EWTN’s website

And so we come to the final question: What is the meaning of the “secret” of Fatima as a whole (in its three parts)? What does it say to us? First of all we must affirm with Cardinal Sodano: “… the events to which the third part of the ‘secret’ of Fatima refers now seem part of the past”. Insofar as individual events are described, they belong to the past. Those who expected exciting apocalyptic revelations about the end of the world or the future course of history are bound to be disappointed. Fatima does not satisfy our curiosity in this way, just as Christian faith in general cannot be reduced to an object of mere curiosity. What remains was already evident when we began our reflections on the text of the “secret”: the exhortation to prayer as the path of “salvation for souls” and, likewise, the summons to penance and conversion.

I would like finally to mention another key expression of the “secret” which has become justly famous: “my Immaculate Heart will triumph”. What does this mean? The Heart open to God, purified by contemplation of God, is stronger than guns and weapons of every kind. The fiat of Mary, the word of her heart, has changed the history of the world, because it brought the Saviour into the world—because, thanks to her Yes, God could become man in our world and remains so for all time. The Evil One has power in this world, as we see and experience continually; he has power because our freedom continually lets itself be led away from God. But since God himself took a human heart and has thus steered human freedom towards what is good, the freedom to choose evil no longer has the last word. From that time forth, the word that prevails is this: “In the world you will have tribulation, but take heart; I have overcome the world” (Jn 16:33). The message of Fatima invites us to trust in this promise.

JosephCard. Ratzinger
Prefect of the Congregation
for the Doctrine of the Faith

Yeah, it’s part of the commentary that went along with the official 2000 release. And it completely contradicts Cardinal Ratzinger’s own statements about the Third Secret from the November 1984 edition of Jesus Magazine, not to mention a boatload of other evidence from other sources, including remarks directly from the mouth of Pope John Paul II himself during the same year. Pope John Paul II published his own version of part of the third secret that year, regarding events in the Apocalypse, and given that the Pope outranks the Cardinal Secretary of State, it is more authoritative.

Personally, I place greater value on Cardinal Ratzinger’s remarks from 1984, because he was speaking freely in that interview. In 2000, the reason this commentary was composed was because his then boss, the Cardinal Secretary of State, told him to draft a commentary based on the “bishop in dressed in white” vision material that he was handed and was told was the real Third Secret.

Cardinal Ratzinger’s 1984 remarks are consistent with Pope John Paul II’s remarks about Fatima in 2000 about the “tail of the dragon.” They’re not consistent with the 2000 release orchestrated by Sodano and Bertone.

 

[pnewton]

The Fatima Network, and its website, is headed by Fr. Nicholas Gruner. Fr. Gruner has been suspended from priestly ministry and does not have ecclesiastical approval of his activities. Gruner has been in conflict with Church authorities for over 20 years because of his insistence that the Fatima message has gone unheeded.

My whole life I have seen apocalyptic prophecy come and go. Even in the first century this was a common problem. There are always those that will go try so hard to look ahead and read more into things that they obscure realities of living in the world today.

As Roman Catholics we have this wonderful gift of Holy Spirit guided authority. It serves as an umbrella to help weather the winds and rain of every doomsayer that comes along. Instead of seeking after revelation, sensationalism and prophecy, we should desire things of God that last forever.

 

[Eucharisted]

STATEMENT ON FATHER NICHOLAS GRUNER
Congregation for the Clergy​

Declaration published on 4 October 1992 of English edition of L’Osservatore Romano:

The Congregation for the Clergy declares that the International Meeting on the topic, “Peace in the World and the Immaculate Heart of Mary”, scheduled for 8-12 October in Fatima, Portugal, and organized by Fr. Nicholas Gruner, has not been approved by the competent ecclesiastical authorities.

The Congregation also declares that the same Fr. Nicholas Gruner does not have faculties from the Diocese of Leiria-Fatima to perform ministerial acts.

Cardinal Jose T. Sanchez, prefect

Archbishop Crescenzio See, secretary

(source)

 

[Eucharisted]

STATEMENT ON TRIDENTINE LATIN RITE CHURCH (FATIMA CRUSADERS)

                    By Bishop Lawrence Welsh

After much consultation and prayer, I have given approval for the to publish the series of articles regarding the Fatima
Crusaders, which begins in this issue. In the history of the Catholic
Church, after almost every general Council there have been groups which
have broken away from the mainstream of the church. They have done this in
reaction to the restatement of the Christian tradition by the Fathers of
that particular Council.

It is a very sad phenomeon but also very human. In faith we grieve to see
the fabric of the church so divided. Our life as Christians is directed
toward the unity of all men and women in Christ. Whatever divides the
church is to be mourned because it divides Christ himself.

                             SINCERE

We are sure that the Catholics who have joined the Fatima Crusaders are
sincere in their belief. The series presents the
sorrows, the traumas, and the difficulties they have experienced for the
sake of their belief. They are seeking to do God’s will as they understand
it.

Yet, as Bishop of Spokane, I do not feel that I can stand by silently
while people from this group cause confusion in the minds of some of our
Catholic people.

The Fatima Crusaders or the Tridentine Latin Rite Church cannot be
identified as a legitimate expression of the Roman Catholic faith. Their
denial of the papacy as incorporated in the lives of the last four popes
is a denial of the church itself. How can one believe in the presence of
Christ in the church and the power of his Spirit while denying the
concrete presence of the office of the Pope?

                   NOT LEGITIMATELY CATHOLICS

There is no such thing as a legitimate expression of the Catholic
tradition that is not in union with the Holy Father. The Fatima Crusaders
are therefore not legitimately Catholics. Their celebration of the
sacraments is not a legitimate part of the life of the church. Bishop
Schuckardt has received no mission from the church universal and does not
accept the unity of the apostolic office. Yet these are some of the very
elements which make the Church Roman Catholic.

The past 18 years have been very challenging for the church. Given the
direction by the bishops of the church in union with the Holy Father,
Catholics have been about the difficult task of reform and renewal. There
have been extreme reactions at times and clearly abuses at times, but
guided by the official teaching office of the church it has sought to live
by and to teach the mainstream of Catholic tradition as it has been known
for 2,000 years.

As your bishop, I must caution you, the faithful of this diocese, to
protect yourselves from any error including this effort by the Fatima
Crusaders. Their presentation of Catholic tradition distorts the
mainstream of Catholic faith by a certain selected historical perception
of Catholic life. They take a far too pessimistic view of world order.

                    TEACHING AUTHORITY DENIED

Furthermore, they deny the teaching authority of the Second Vatican
Council and the last four popes. Implicitly Bishop Schuckardt has set
himself up as the final and last arbiter of Catholic tradition. This
follows the pattern used by all so-called reformers of the past.

They are above the then current expression of Catholic tradition. History
over and over again has demonstrated that such movements are not from the
Holy Spirit. Whatever the admitted weaknesses and sinfulness of the Roman
Cathoic Church, the Fatima Crusaders stand opposed to the unity,
Catholicity, and apostolicity of the church. I truly believe the series
that begins this week helps to identify this more clearly. I am grateful
to Bob Cubbage and the staff for their very competent
and professional efforts to bring this story to the Catholic people of our
diocese.

 This document was taken from "Cults, Sects, and the New Age," by
 Rev.  James J. LeBar, available from Our Sunday Visitor Press,
 200 Noll Plaza, Huntington, IN 46750.

(source)

 

[Eucharisted]

Though the attacks are unceasing, we have hope in God, who at the end of time will triumph over every lie and over every injustice.

 

[BSHoop96]

That little snippet I posted came from the website Catholic Culture…It’s a large well run site and it evaluates websites that claim to be catholic

That would be a great source! I actually have that website ear-marked but haven’t been there a lot. Do you have to search on it or is there a tab or something evaluating these websites? Thanks for the info!

 

[BSHoop96]

Eucharisted:
Good grief…if some of these posters who are so intent on convincing us that the Church is hiding parts of the secret for nefarious reasons believe in, or get their info, from “Fatima Crusaders” why are we even wasting our breath?

 

[redrosetea]

No you just type in any website or group into their search engine and they will show you what the have found out about them

 

[redrosetea]

Good grief…if some of these posters who are so intent on convincing us that the Church is hiding parts of the secret for nefarious reasons believe in, or get their info, from “Fatima Crusaders” why are we even wasting our breath?

I think they might be looking to convert some…But as for me I will listen to our pope , and not someone who is trying to spin things

 

[BSHoop96]

Fine then. Follow the Pope. Follow Pope John Paul II when, during a beatification ceremony of two of the Fatima seers in 2000, Jacinta and Francisco, he said this:

“The message of Fatima is a call to conversion, alerting humanity to have nothing to do with the ‘dragon’ whose ‘tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth’ (Apoc. 12:4).”

It’s available on the Vatican’s website, as I recall. And it’s more authoritative than any release orchestrated by Cardinal Sodano and Bertone because it comes directly from the mouth of the then Pope.

Now keep in mind that Catholic theologians have interpreted this to be a reference to the Catholic clergy coming under the control of satan while events unfold in the Apocalypse. The ratio is 1/3, the same ratio of angels that defected in service of satan before being cast out of heaven. And with those 1/3 of priests, they will undoubtedly take millions of laypersons along with them.

And then we have this from the current Chief Exorcist in Rome from an interview with 30 days Magazine, where he says that demons have installed themselves in the Vatican:

christianorder.com/features/features_2004/features_mar04_bonus.html

The content of the above declaration by Pope John Paul II is very much in line with what Malachi Martin wrote in his book about the Third Secret of Fatima, “Windswept House.” It’s also consistent with comments attributed to Sr. Lucia to look to Apocalypse 8 to 13 to understand the third secret, and what Cardinal Ratzinger said in 1984 that the third secret deals with the importance of the “end times”.

Sigh…fine…go ahead and keep digging and searching for a conspiracy if you want. To what purpose I don’t know.

 

[BSHoop96]

No you just type in any website or group into their search engine and they will show you what the have found out about them

Thanks. I kept asking myself why I kept coming back to this thread but I ended up with some useful info after all.

 

[VitaminC]

That little snippet I posted came from the website Catholic Culture…It’s a large well run site and it evaluates websites that claim to be catholic

And it contains inaccuracies, does not cite sources, and does not identify the author. Father Kramer is a priest in good standing, and a scholar with impressive credentials. There’s no record of Pope JPII or Sister Lucia giving their “assurances” as to the accuracy of the 2000 release to Father Gruner or to the public. Cardinal Bertone claims they gave assurances to him. This information in this “snippet” you posted is either misinformation, or disinformation.

 

[redrosetea]

Disinformation is in the eye of the beholder…believe what you want and so will I

 

[VitaminC]

Sigh…fine…go ahead and keep digging and searching for a conspiracy if you want. To what purpose I don’t know.

Obviously because I and millions of other Catholics want to know what the Blessed Virgin really had to say in the third message she gave at Fatima. If it wasn’t important, she wouldn’t have visited us and arranged for a miracle for 50-70,000 people to see.

There are some who say it doesn’t matter because anything like this is “private revelation.” However, this is oversimplifying things because the information in the Apocalypse is cryptic and suggestive of the fact that the content will be better understood at a later date. The evidence available suggests that the Blessed Virgin appeared multiple times to give insight into this. We have other approved apparitions like Akita warning of satanic infiltration of the Church, and the Chief Exorcist making public pronouncements that this is happening now. That’s the danger of blindly accepting anything that comes from a cardinal in the Vatican without doing some fact checking first.

And if you value what Pope John Paul II had to say regarding the Third Secret of Fatima, then continue to do so, and realize that what he had to say about the content of the Third Secret is inconsistent with what a couple of his subordinates claimed.