The Third Secret

[rinnie]

So, did he also know he was going to be stabbed by one of his priests at Fatima? Because he was, and it drew blood and the Vatican originally lied and said it didn’t happen.

There were two assassination attempts.

If you want to believe that the Blessed Virgin appeared in 1917 to three children to tell them that a pope 64 years later would almost be assassinated along with performing a miracle for fifty to seventy thousand people to see, feel free.

It just all makes perfect sense after all, doesn’t it? It especially makes sense when Cardinal Ratzinger, three years after the first assassination attempt said in an interview with Jesus Magazine that the third secret dealt with the “end times” and said zero about the shooting in this context.

Thank-you and I will. And also it did happen. He did get shot, he knew he would, he knew he would not die, he didn’t die and fifty seventy thousand people did see. So whats your point. You saw it with your own eyes and what you don’t believe. Well FEEL FREE!

 

[VitaminC]

I understand that the shooting is only PART of the third secret. It simply isn’t totally revealed yet and I don’t think it ever will be. For the sake of the people, it can’t be.
I don’t get this post, are you saying you don’t believe Fatima or the 70,000 people who saw the Miracle of the Sun? If you don’t believe, are 70,000 people lying? Did the Secular News also lie that day when they, an atheist newspaper, proclaimed a Miracle did indeed happen? Please clarify. God Bless.

I’m saying that the shooting of JPII is not the Third Secret. The shooting and stabbing occurred to get JPII to listen to and believe Fatima, just as the Miracle of the Sun was to get people to listen. And another Pope was shown the miracle of the sun to get him to believe.

 

[VitaminC]

I need to rephrase that because that’s not what I intended.

There is a connection between Fatima and the failed assassination attempts. The appearance date of the Blessed Virgin was intentional so that when the shooting, stabbing, and Akita happened, it would reinforce belief in the message of Fatima. But it’s not the “message” of the Third Secret.

The real Third Secret involves the warning of Akita about satanic infiltration of the church, but with something much more telling and explanatory.

 

[pnewton]

How convenient for you to take what I said out of context with regard to the assassination attempt on JPII, and delete the BBC article link, and then ask, “according to who”, and then say, “fatima crusader?.”

That’s impressive. Yeah, go ahead and laugh. Dishonesty is exactly what the controversy is all about, after all.

From your link:

Previously unpublished details of an assassination attempt on the late Pope John Paul II in Portugal in 1982 have been revealed in a film based on the memoirs of the Pope’s former private secretary.

You can believe teh Fatima Crusader, the BBC, movies or even comic books for all care. But when someone accusese the Vatican of lying and conspiracy from these sources, I have no more respect for such an opinion than a Jack Chick fairy tale. I literally laughed when I read the one post because it never ceases to amaze me how gullible people are to conspiracy theories.

I will stand by my Church and igmore the rag sheets.

 

[allhers]

I need to rephrase that because that’s not what I intended.

There is a connection between Fatima and the failed assassination attempts. The appearance date of the Blessed Virgin was intentional so that when the shooting, stabbing, and Akita happened, it would reinforce belief in the message of Fatima. But it’s not the “message” of the Third Secret.

The real Third Secret involves the warning of Akita about satanic infiltration of the church, but with something much more telling and explanatory.

Perhaps this will help you understand the truth of the matter:

The Pope then continued more forcefully and with more specific references, as though commenting on the Message of Fatima in its sorrowful fulfilment:

“Behold, as we stand before you, Mother of Christ, before your Immaculate Heart, we desire, together with the whole Church, to unite ourselves with the consecration which, for love of us, your Son made of himself to the Father: ‘For their sake’, he said, ‘I consecrate myself that they also may be consecrated in the truth’ (Jn 17:19). We wish to unite ourselves with our Redeemer in this his consecration for the world and for the human race, which, in his divine Heart, has the power to obtain pardon and to secure reparation.

The power of this consecration lasts for all time and embraces all individuals, peoples and nations. It overcomes every evil that the spirit of darkness is able to awaken, and has in fact awakened in our times, in the heart of man and in his history.

How deeply we feel the need for the consecration of humanity and the world—our modern world—in union with Christ himself! For the redeeming work of Christ must be shared in by the world through the Church.

source:
ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp
First click on general questions not covered elsewhere and then
Click on Fatima Third Secret and then on third secret of Fatima

 

[missal]

Hi VitaminC
I just read your post about the Fatima Secret for the first time.
although it appears you do not follow Father Gruner, I believe his mission 100%. I have been reading his materials for years, and the world is living testimony coming true before our very eyes.
I am a practicing Catholic, and believe in unity with the Pope…I am just dismayed at the “cover up” for so many years.

Our Blessed Mother warned- that if the Pope and Bishops did not heed her warnings there would be great persecutions throughout the world. Our Holy Father would suffer, our Church persecuted, many souls lost. And all of this would begin ’ AT THE TOP…" if her messages were not revealed., It is in the process of affecting all of mankind, and lots of the people in the Vatican are afraid it will happen “on their watch”
Can you give me more information regarding the “Jesus Magazine”?View attachment 5274

 

[allhers]

Hi VitaminC
I just read your post about the Fatima Secret for the first time.
although it appears you do not follow Father Gruner, I believe his mission 100%. I have been reading his materials for years, and the world is living testimony coming true before our very eyes.
I am a practicing Catholic, and believe in unity with the Pope…I am just dismayed at the “cover up” for so many years.

Our Blessed Mother warned- that if the Pope and Bishops did not heed her warnings there would be great persecutions throughout the world. Our Holy Father would suffer, our Church persecuted, many souls lost. And all of this would begin ’ AT THE TOP…" if her messages were not revealed., It is in the process of affecting all of mankind, and lots of the people in the Vatican are afraid it will happen “on their watch”
Can you give me more information regarding the “Jesus Magazine”?View attachment 5274

…and perhaps you missed this earlier, this may help you.

,According to Matthew 5:8, the “immaculate heart” is a heart which, with God’s grace, has come to perfect interior unity and therefore “sees God”. To be “devoted” to the Immaculate Heart of Mary means therefore to embrace this attitude of heart, which makes the fiat—“your will be done”—the defining centre of one’s whole life. It might be objected that we should not place a human being between ourselves and Christ. But then we remember that Paul did not hesitate to say to his communities: “imitate me” (1 Cor 4:16; Phil 3:17; 1 Th 1:6; 2 Th 3:7, 9). In the Apostle they could see concretely what it meant to follow Christ. But from whom might we better learn in every age than from the Mother of the Lord?

…And so we come to the final question: What is the meaning of the “secret” of Fatima as a whole (in its three parts)? What does it say to us? First of all we must affirm with Cardinal Sodano: “… the events to which the third part of the ‘secret’ of Fatima refers now seem part of the past”. Insofar as individual events are described, they belong to the past. Those who expected exciting apocalyptic revelations about the end of the world or the future course of history are bound to be disappointed. Fatima does not satisfy our curiosity in this way, just as Christian faith in general cannot be reduced to an object of mere curiosity. What remains was already evident when we began our reflections on the text of the “secret”: the exhortation to prayer as the path of “salvation for souls” and, likewise, the summons to penance and conversion.

I would like finally to mention another key expression of the “secret” which has become justly famous: “my Immaculate Heart will triumph”. What does this mean? The Heart open to God, purified by contemplation of God, is stronger than guns and weapons of every kind. The fiat of Mary, the word of her heart, has changed the history of the world, because it brought the Saviour into the world—because, thanks to her Yes, God could become man in our world and remains so for all time. The Evil One has power in this world, as we see and experience continually; he has power because our freedom continually lets itself be led away from God. But since God himself took a human heart and has thus steered human freedom towards what is good, the freedom to choose evil no longer has the last word. From that time forth, the word that prevails is this: “In the world you will have tribulation, but take heart; I have overcome the world” (Jn 16:33). The message of Fatima invites us to trust in this promise.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html

 

[Hesychios]

Our Blessed Mother warned-

It is quite possible the Blessed Mother said no such thing.

No Catholic, anywhere at any time is required to believe the messages of contemporary visions, and for good reason, they might actually be a mistake…the Age of Revelation has closed, and been closed for many centuries! It ended with the death of the last Apostle, who was probably Saint John.

So instead of obediently accepting the statements from the Holy See on this matter, we have Catholics pretending obedience but forming their own beliefs based upon magazine articles and websites… :coffeeread:

 

[VitaminC]

Hi VitaminC
I just read your post about the Fatima Secret for the first time.
although it appears you do not follow Father Gruner, I believe his mission 100%. I have been reading his materials for years, and the world is living testimony coming true before our very eyes.
I am a practicing Catholic, and believe in unity with the Pope…I am just dismayed at the “cover up” for so many years.

Actually, I have no problem with Father Gruner. I’m thankful to him for all the work he’s done over the years on this matter and I know he tells the truth. I support him in this matter. I understand that he’s suffered a lot for his cause, spiritually, professionally, and even physically when he was beaten at Fatima. He has my respect.

I also understand that people leading the fight like Gruner and Fr. Kramer want everyone to have access to the actual proof, so that they can see it with their own two eyes and don’t just have to take someone’s word for it.

Unfortunately, we have people on these boards that use sophistry every time the topic is brought up, hoping to keep other people from getting an understanding of what this is all about. These people are not good people, in my opinion.

Our Blessed Mother warned- that if the Pope and Bishops did not heed her warnings there would be great persecutions throughout the world. Our Holy Father would suffer, our Church persecuted, many souls lost. And all of this would begin ’ AT THE TOP…" if her messages were not revealed., It is in the process of affecting all of mankind, and lots of the people in the Vatican are afraid it will happen “on their watch”
Can you give me more information regarding the “Jesus Magazine”?

Cardinal Ciappi is quoted as saying:
“In the Third Secret it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”

Earlier in this thread I posted a scanned copy of part of this interview from the magazine.

Also, you can read about it in the book, “The Devil’s Final Battle”, by Father Paul Kramer.

If you follow this link, and scroll down to the section about Cardinal Ratzinger, you’ll find information about this article:

devilsfinalbattle.com/ch4.htm

You can read the whole book for free at this website.

 

[pnewton]

I also understand that people leading the fight like Gruner and Fr. Kramer want everyone to have access to the actual proof, so that they can see it with their own two eyes and don’t just have to take someone’s word for it.

Herein lies the a basic difference between Catholicism and Protestantism. It is a shame to see priests not recognize this error. If the Holy Scripture must be interpreted with accordance to the Church, how much more care must be taken with these apparitions and revelations which are by their very nature can be twisted to satisfy the agenda or purpose of the one guessing at the meaning. Instead of being deceiptful or conspiratorial, the Church is behaving with prudence in its dealings with Fatima. Fatima, like all apparitions, is simply not core to our understanding of Catholicism.

 

[VitaminC]

You can believe teh Fatima Crusader, the BBC, movies or even comic books for all care. But when someone accusese the Vatican of lying and conspiracy from these sources, I have no more respect for such an opinion than a Jack Chick fairy tale. I literally laughed when I read the one post because it never ceases to amaze me how gullible people are to conspiracy theories.

I will stand by my Church and igmore the rag sheets.

What do you hope to accomplish with this sophistry, anyway?

All you do is give other people more opportunity to expose it.

 

[VitaminC]

So instead of obediently accepting the statements from the Holy See on this matter, we have Catholics pretending obedience but forming their own beliefs based upon magazine articles and websites… :coffeeread:

This is the statement from the Holy See:

“The message of Fatima is a call to conversion, alerting humanity to have nothing to do with the ‘dragon’ whose ‘tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth’ (Apoc. 12:4).” – Pope John Paul II, Homily, Fatima, May 13, 2000.

And this has been popularly understood by Catholic scholars to be referring to satanic infiltration of the Catholic clergy. These clergy will take millions of their laypersons along with them – the people who practice blind obedience to everything and abandon their own internal conscience that God gave them.

It’s part of original prophecy.

 

[Hesychios]

View attachment 5276

If I didn’t see this for myself, I would not have believed a man so obviously young could write so well!

WOW

Tell your Daddy you deserve a new set of boots and an axe to go along with that headgear and overcoat! Michael says so!

http://edge.shop.com/ccimg.shop.com/230000/235300/235373/products/thumb79053438.jpg

If the Holy Scripture must be interpreted with accordance to the Church, how much more care must be taken with these apparitions and revelations …

Agreed!

Pax et Bonum,
Michael

 

[VitaminC]

The encouragement of “blind obedience” has always been a tool of satan.

If you read the testimony of a lot of the molested altar boys by evil priests, a common claim is that they were compelled to comply with the abuse out of duty to “obey” and “trust” for their clergyman.

 

[Hesychios]

And this has been popularly understood by Catholic scholars…

What Catholic scholars?

Is that some amorphous cloud of witnesses who know better than the Holy See?

Do these people have names?

 

[VitaminC]

What Catholic scholars?

Is that some amorphous cloud of witnesses who know better than the Holy See?

Do these people have names?

I’m not going to entertain sophistry. The “Holy See”, Pope John Paul II, is the one that said the message of Fatima is a warning to have nothing to do with the tail of the dragon in his homily.

I gave titles of books, like the Devil’s Final Battle, and even posted the direct urls to find them. It’s all in there. Read it.

 

[pnewton]

The encouragement of “blind obedience” has always been a tool of satan.

If you read the testimony of a lot of the molested altar boys by evil priests, a common claim is that they were compelled to comply with the abuse out of duty to “obey” and “trust” for their clergyman.

Boy is that ever out of left field. You are linking child sexual abuse to this topic? This Fatima secret is not even needed for the Catholic faith and you link this (I still do not get this) to the scandal a while back?

Is it because you read into this some illogical connection between rejecting wild conspiracy theories with blind obedience? I do not read the National Enquirer believe in UFO’s or Bigfoot, but that does not mean I blindly believe everything CNN says.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

The encouragement of “blind obedience” has always been a tool of satan.

If you read the testimony of a lot of the molested altar boys by evil priests, a common claim is that they were compelled to comply with the abuse out of duty to “obey” and “trust” for their clergyman.

Well also about the constant abuse in the non-Catholic churches by evil pastors, is this too blind obedience?

 

[Hesychios]

Well also about the constant abuse in the non-Catholic churches by evil pastors, is this too blind obedience?

Aside from my distaste for what VitaminC posted as a bit “over the top”, I don’t see any point in muddying the waters with your suggestion.

Let’s try to keep the occasional failed Protestant ministry, and the occasional failed priestly vocations out of this discussion, shall we?

Thank you for your understanding.

 

[pnewton]

Aside from my distaste for what VitaminC posted as a bit “over the top”, I don’t see any point in muddying the waters with your suggestion.

A bit over the top is putting it mildly. I am still trying to figure which is a more insensitve connection; that the vicitms are at fault for their blind obedience to their priests, or that somehow parishoners are to blame for this abuse because of their blind obedience to the priests.

In any case, any time obedience to the Holy Father is mentioned, those who eschew obedience will label all obedience as blind, like all faith is called blind by the athiest.

I will probably never know who killed Kennedy or what happened at the Bay of Pigs, but somewhere down the line in life we all develop a sense of when cover-up may or may not happen, and when a cover up sounds more like paranoia. I think there is too much of a desire for the sensational in today’s Fatima fanatics.