THE THOUSAND YEAR REIGN (era of peace)

[lee01238]

Yes, this is a familiar argument by Protestant dispensationalists, in their case because they wish to deny the reality of the Church. The fact is, the devil was unrestrained before Christ came and established his kingdom; he is restrained (though still active) at this time; he has no power over us unless we give it to him because of our new life of grace in Christ.

Well, I’m a Catholic with no agenda to deny the reality of the Catholic Church. Looking at the history, especially the last century it’s kind of hard to convince me that the devil is restrained. It seems to me that he has been deceiveng the world like never.before. And the argument that he can’t harm us unless we let him is pretty weak, that can’t be what God had in mind when He said he would chain him in hell. Satan’s power seems to be the same as it was in the Old Testament.

The way I see it now is the followng sequence fo events;

1. tribulation culminating with the coming of the antichrist and his defeat
2. era of peace with demons completely chained in hell
3. at the end of the era of peace devils released
   4 second coming

I may be wrong but as of now this seems like the most obvious interpretation of Revelation 20.

 

[Fidelis]

Well, I’m a Catholic with no agenda to deny the reality of the Catholic Church. Looking at the history, especially the last century it’s kind of hard to convince me that the devil is restrained. It seems to me that he has been deceiveng the world like never.before. And the argument that he can’t harm us unless we let him is pretty weak, that can’t be what God had in mind when He said he would chain him in hell. Satan’s power seems to be the same as it was in the Old Testament.

If the devil is as strong after the Cross as he was in the Old Testament, then the Cross of Jesus Christ has no power, there is no grace, and there is no difference whether one is a Christian or not. That is not the Gospel.

The way I see it now is the followng sequence fo events;

1. tribulation culminating with the coming of the antichrist and his defeat
2. era of peace with demons completely chained in hell
3. at the end of the era of peace devils released
   4 second coming

I may be wrong but as of now this seems like the most obvious interpretation of Revelation 20

Suit yourself. Arguing with a man about his pet personal Bible interpretation that is at demonstratedly at odds with the teaching of the Church is like arguing over what baseball team is better. It may be entertaining, but it is entirely subjective. Good night.

 

[lee01238]

Some more quotes from here:
markmallett.com/blog/?p=465

I and every other orthodox Christian feel certain that there will be a resurrection of the flesh followed by a thousand years in a rebuilt, embellished, and enlarged city of Jerusalem, as was announced by the Prophets Ezekiel, Isaias and others… A man among us named John, one of Christ’s Apostles, received and foretold that the followers of Christ would dwell in Jerusalem for a thousand years, and that afterwards the universal and, in short, everlasting resurrection and judgment would take place. —St. Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. 81, The Fathers of the Church, Christian Heritage

So, the blessing foretold undoubtedly refers to the time of His Kingdom, when the just will rule on rising from the dead; when creation, reborn and freed from bondage, will yield an abundance of foods of all kinds from the heaven’s dew and the fertility of the earth, just as the seniors recall. Those who saw John, the Lord’s disciple , [tell us] that they heard from him how the Lord taught and spoke about these times… —St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Church Father (140–202 A.D.); Adversus Haereses, Irenaeus of Lyons, V.33.3.4, The Fathers of the Church, CIMA Publishing Co.; (St. Irenaeus was a student of St. Polycarp, who knew and learned from the Apostle John and was later consecrated bishop of Smyrna by John.)

We do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem… We say that this city has been provided by God for receiving the saints on their resurrection, and refreshing them with the abundance of all really spiritual blessings, as a recompense for those which we have either despised or lost… —Tertullian (155–240 A.D.), Nicene Church Father; Adversus Marcion, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Henrickson Publishers, 1995, Vol. 3, pp. 342-343)

Since God, having finished His works, rested on the seventh day and blessed it, at the end of the six thousandth year all wickedness must be abolished from the earth, and righteousness reign for a thousand years… —Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius (250-317 A.D.; Ecclesiastical writer), The Divine Institutes, Vol 7.

But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come… sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bring in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day. —St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Fragments, Book V, Ch. 28, 2; from The Early Church Fathers and Other Works published in 1867.

 

[lee01238]

If the devil is as strong after the Cross as he was in the Old Testament, then the Cross of Jesus Christ has no power, there is no grace, and there is no difference whether one is a Christian or not. That is not the Gospel.

That’s not what I’m saying. Yes we are stronger because of the grace and everything else Jesus did, but the devil still has the same freedom to go around and tempt people. He is not chained at all.

1 Peter 5:8
Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.

 

[surfinpure]

I’ve been having this debate with my mother, who has always belonged to the “literal 1000 years” camp. Our present contention concerns Isaiah 65: 20:

"No longer shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not round out his full lifetime; He dies a mere youth who reaches but a hundred years, and he who fails of a hundred shall be thought accursed."Her argument is that if infants are being born and people are still dying, this cannot be a Heavenly Jerusalem, since there will be no birth or death in heaven.

Does anyone have any insight or references on this passage?

 

[beehumble]

The thousand years is not the period of peace spoken of at Fatima. Salvation history isthis:
-man created good, as is the universe
-man sinned.
-God redeemed.
-Satan restrained while the gospel spreads throughout the world - the Church built up.
-Satan loosed to try to destroy that now-built-up Church, for a short time (relative to the long time to build up the Church)
-Satan fails, and is consigned to hell forever.
-restored (renewed) earth is made by God, who dwells with man FOREVER, not a thousand years. Heaven is on the renewed earth. heaven and earth are in a sense one. (why have a physical body to live ins a spiritual heaven?) As we pray Glory be to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, WORLD WITHOUT END, Amen.
And Jesus said, “Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in Heaven”…and it wil be, once earth is restored and a a part of heaven.

The Period of Peace of Fatima is misconstrued. It means an era of reconciliation between man and God, not peace between man and man. God is not so small; He offers us something bigger - a peace with Him…akin to His gift of Divine Mercy specifically given for these times - where we get forgiveness of sin AND punishment due from the sin.

Our God is an awesome God!

 

[oksoitworked]

From: ewtnreligiouscatalogue.com/TRIAL+TRIBULATION+AND+TRIUMPH/cid=37/page_no=1/edp_no=4423/shop.axd/ProductDetails

Various prophecies describe a literal “age of peace” on earth and I do believe that the thousand years correlates with it (Revelations 20:1-7) although I don’t know if it will literally be a thousand years long. In summary, this current corrupt and faithless age will eventually come to an end with a “minor chastisement” which can be averted if enough people convert and cooperate with God’s grace. This will be followed by an “age of peace”, that precedes the “age of the anti-christ”, which sees the restoration of Catholicism and its spread throughout the entire world (Matthew 24:14) as well as a restored Holy Roman Empire. I do not believe that the “age of peace” or “minor chastisement” are declared dogma although the anti-christ most certainly is.
Ven. Bartholomew Holzhauser:

… the status afflictionis et purgativus or the fifth age of the Church, from Leo X to a strong ruler or grand monarch and a holy pope, (the age we are currently in)
the status consolationis of the sixth age of the Church, from that holy pope to the birth of Antichrist, (the “age of peace” with flourishing of Catholicism worldwide) …

“The fifth period of the Church, which began circa 1520, will end with the arrival of the Holy Pope and of the powerful Monarch who is called ‘Help From God’ because he will restore everything [in Christ]
. The fifth period is one of affliction, desolation, humiliation, and poverty for the Church. Jesus Christ will purify His people through cruel wars, famines, plague, epidemics, and other horrible calamities. He will also afflict and weaken the Latin Church with many heresies. It is a period of defections, calamities, and extermination. Those Christians who survive the sword, plague, and famines, will be few on earth. Nations will fight against nations, and will be desolated by internecine dissensions.”

So this would be the “minor chastisement” that brings an end to our current age and transitions us into the next one.

“During the fifth period, we saw only calamities and devastation; oppression of Catholics by tyrants and heretics; executions of Kings, and conspiracies to set up republics. But, by the Hand of God Almighty, there occurs so wondrous a change during the sixth period that no one can humanly visualize it. The Powerful Monarch, who will be sent by God will uproot every Republic. He will submit everything to his authority, and he will show great zeal for the true Church of Christ. The empire of the Mohammedans will be broken up, and this Monarch will reign in the East as well as in the West. All nations will come to worship God in the true Catholic and Roman faith. There will be many Saints and Doctors of the Church on earth. Peace will reign over the whole earth because God will bind Satan for a number of years until the days of the Son of Perdition. No one will be able to pervert the word of God since, during the sixth period, there will be an ecumenic council which will be the greatest of all councils. By the grace of God, by the power of the Great Monarch, by the authority of the Holy Pontiff, and by the union of all the most devout princes, atheism and every heresy will be banished from the earth. The Council will define the true sense of Holy Scripture, and this will be believed and accepted by everyone.”

“The power of Mary over all devils will be particularly outstanding in the last period of time. She will extend the Kingdom of Christ over the idolaters and Moslems, and there will come a glorious era when Mary is the Ruler and Queen of Hearts”

"Certain Doctors truly say, that one of the kings of the Frankish Empire shall possess it in its entirety, which King shall live in the last time and shall be the greatest and last of kings. Who after he shall have happily governed his Kingdom, shall come to Jerusalem and lay down his scepter and grown on Mount Olivet. He shall be the last and consummate Emperor of the Roman and Christian Empire. And immediately thereupon, according to the sentence of Paul, they [the **Doctors

] say Antichrist shall come."

“If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world.”

The “age of peace” that will be granted to the Church. It appears from the above passages that the 1000 year period does correlate with the “age of peace” where “He seized the dragon, the ancient serpent, which is the Devil or Satan, and tied it up for a thousand years” (Rev. 20:2). The teaching of the restoration of the Holy Roman Empire and the last Roman King is taught by the Fathers / Doctors of the Church and is confined pretty much to sacred tradition.

There is a lot more writings from both tradition and private approved (from saints, blesseds and venerables) prophecy which pretty much say the same thing, but too tired to copy any more. I would agree that private prophecy shouldn’t be taken too seriously in general, but when so many prophecies over such a vast expanse of time and space repeat the same thing, I would start paying attention.

 

[diggerdomer]

(Rev 20:1-6) talks about a 1000 year period of peace on Earth after the antichrist is defeated and before the second coming.

Here is an artcle by a Canadian catholic evangelist:
markmallett.com/blog/?p=389

My question is if this is really compatible with the Catholic teaching. The authors claims it is. He claims that this is also what the Fatima predicts.

The Catholic Church does not require nor deny that interpretation.

 

[patrick457]

What about this:

St. Augustin:
Those who, on the strength of this passage [of Revelation 20:1-6], have suspected that the first resurrection is future and bodily, have been moved, among other things, specially by the number of a thousand years, as if it were a fit thing that the saints should thus enjoy a kind of Sabbath-rest during that period, a holy leisure after the labors of six thousand years since man was created… (and) there should follow on the completion of six thousand years, as of six days, a kind of seventh-day Sabbath in the succeeding thousand years; and that it is for this purpose the saints rise, viz.; to celebrate the Sabbath. And this opinion would not be objectionable, if it were believed that the joys of the saints in that Sabbath shall be spiritual, and consequent on the presence of God… —De Civitate Dei [The City of God], Catholic University of America Press, Bk XX, Ch. 7

This I am familiar with.

In the early Church, there were two main eschatological views (as St. Justin Martyr testifies to) running side-by-side: amillennialism and premillennialism. However, we must remember that the premillenialism that was held at that time is different from the dispensational premillennialism that is dominant today in certain circles. Many of the Church Fathers who held this historical premillenialism believed in a sexta-septamillennial tradition which posits that the world is destined to last for just 6,000 years. Before the end of days, there would be a thousand-year period of Sabbath (the millennial kingdom). In total, all of human history will have a total of 7,000 years prior to the new creation: this is in parallel to Genesis - where God created the world in six days and rested in the seventh.

Throughout the Patristic period—particularly in the 3rd century—there had been rising opposition to premillennialism. Origen and the heretic Marcion were the first to challenge the doctrine openly. Through allegorical interpretation, Origen had been a proponent of amillennialism (of course, the sexta-septamillennial tradition was itself based upon similar means of allegorical interpretation). Dionysius, Bishop of Alexandria (d. 265) stood against premillennialism when the chiliastic (and anti-amillenialistic) work, The Refutation of the Allegorizers (aka Book of Nepos) written by Nepos, a bishop in Egypt became popular in Alexandria. Dionysius convincingly argued against Nepos’s influence and convinced the churches of the region of amillennialism.

St. Augustine was himself once a sexta-/septamillennial premillenialist. He once divided the 7,000 year-period of the universe into two separate dispensations: first the church age (the current age of 6,000 years), and then the millennial kingdom (Sermon 259.2). Nevertheless, early in his career Augustine converted from premillennialism to amillennialism. The reasons usually given are:

1. *]Reaction to Donatist Excesses: Augustine displayed a revulsion to the Donatists’ bacchanal feasts which seemingly used excessive amounts of food and drink (City of God, 20.7). Donatists were premillennial and it would seem that St. Augustine formed a connection between their ‘carnal’ behavior and their earthly eschatological expectation.
   *]Reaction to Eschatological Sensationalism: The millennial fervor of premillennialists as the year AD 500 was nearing caused them to have overly jovial celebrations: some septa-/sextamillennial interpreters calculated Jesus’s birth to have happened 5,500 years after creation; thus AD 500 should, according to these calculations, mark the beginning of the thousand-year Sabbath and the End of Days. These celebrations, in Augustine’s view, appeared to take more pleasure in the physical world than the spiritual.
   *]Preference for Allegorical Interpretation: Finally, St. Augustine was influenced by the popular allegorical interpretation of Scripture, particularly of Revelation. In this he took influence from Tyconius, the African Donatist writer about whom little is known except that in addition to two works in defense of Donatism, he wrote the Book of Seven Rules (Liber de septem regulis), detailing seven rules for interpreting the Bible, and a Commentary on Revelation itself, where he applies those same rules. Gennadius of Massilia wrote that Tyconius interpreted the book of Revelation in ‘a spiritual sense, nothing carnally’, and describes Tyconius’ interpretation of the book as a revelation, not of the (temporal) last days, but of the time of the Church: “He doubts that there will be a reign of the righteous on earth for a thousand years after the resurrection, or that there will be two resurrections of the dead in the flesh, one of the righteous and the other of the unrighteous, but maintains that there will be one simultaneous resurrection of all mankind.” His influence on St. Augustine is especially manifest in the work The City of God.
   
   After moving away from premillennialism to amillennialism, St. Augustine viewed Sabbath rest in the sexta-/septamillennial scheme as “symbolically representative of Eternity.” Moreover, the millennium of Revelation 20 became for him “symbolically representative of Christ’s present reign with the saints.” His view laid the eschatological foundation for the Middle Ages which practically abandoned premillennialism. Julian, Bishop of Toledo (642-690) summarizes the medieval doctrine of the millennium by referring to it as “the church of God which, by the diffusion of its faith and works, is spread out as a kingdom of faith from the time of the incarnation until the time of the coming judgment.”

 

[patrick457]

And BTW, that quote is unfortunately cherry-picked out of context. Here is the full version:

The evangelist John has spoken of these two resurrections in the book which is called the Apocalypse, but in such a way that some Christians do not understand the first of the two, and so construe the passage into ridiculous fancies. For the Apostle John says in the foresaid book:

“And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, which is named the Devil and Satan, bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations till the thousand years be finished: after that, he must be loosed a little time.
And I saw seats; and they sat on them; and judgment was given; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his inscriptions on their forehead, or in their hand; and they reigned with Jesus a thousand years; the rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.”

Those who, on the strength of this passage, have suspected that the first resurrection is future and bodily, have been moved, among other things, specially by the number of a thousand years, as if it were a fit thing that the saints should thus enjoy a kind of Sabbath-rest during that period, a holy leisure after the labors of the six thousand years since man was created, and was on account of his great sin dismissed from the blessedness of paradise into the woes of this mortal life, so that thus, as it is written, “One day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day,” (2 Peter 3:8) there should follow on the completion of six thousand years, as of six days, a kind of seventh-day Sabbath in the succeeding thousand years; and that it is for this purpose the saints rise, viz., to celebrate this Sabbath.

And this opinion would not be objectionable, if it were believed that the joys of the saints in that Sabbath shall be spiritual, and consequent on the presence of God; for I myself, too, once held this opinion. But, as they assert that those who then rise again shall enjoy the leisure of immoderate carnal banquets, furnished with an amount of meat and drink such as not only to shock the feeling of the temperate, but even to surpass the measure of credulity itself, such assertions can be believed only by the carnal. Those who do believe them are called by the spiritual Chiliasts, which we may literally reproduce by the name Millenarians (Milliarii). It were a tedious process to refute these opinions point by point: we prefer proceeding to show how that passage of Scripture should be understood.​

 

[beehumble]

Yes, the period of peace of Fatima is not the “1000 year” peace of Rev 20. That is the Age of the Church, spanning from the beginning days of the Church, such as at Pentecost, to the “short time” when Satan is “released”.

These times are relative. The number 1000 is used to signify a long time, many generations. And the “short time” is relative to that long time. Rev is apocryphal literature, and so has many symbols.

 

[reclavea]

Yes, but only the idea that Christ will come back and reign on earth physically. Ther idea of an era of peace (or “period of peace” as Fatima puts it) is not rejected. Of course a 1000years doesn’t need to be taken literally,it can.mean a prolonged period which can last less (or more) then 1000 years.

To me the interpretation which equates the 1000 years reign with the current age of the Church since the resurrection of the Lord Jesus seems totally wrong.for many reasons.

For one, the devil is clearly free to tempt the nations. That doesn’t fit the Revelation 20-3 which clearly says that “Satan is sealed up and cannot deceive the nations during the 1000 years”

Pope Leo XIII in 1886 reportedly had a vision of future upheaval in the church.

The Vision Of Pope Leo XIII October 13, 1884 Exactly 33 years to the day prior to the great Miracle of the Sun in Fatima, that is, on October 13, 1884, Pope Leo XIII had a remarkable vision. When the aged Pontiff had finished celebrating Mass in his private Vatican Chapel, attended by a few Cardinals and members of the Vatican staff, he suddenly stopped at the foot of the altar. He stood there for about 10 minutes, as if in a trance, his face ashen white. Then, going immediately from the Chapel to his office, he composed the prayer to St. Michael, with instructions it be said after all Low Masses everywhere. When asked what had happened, he explained that, as he was about to leave the foot of the altar, he suddenly heard voices - two voices, one kind and gentle, the other guttural and harsh. They seemed to come from near the tabernacle. As he listened, he heard the following conversation: The guttural voice, the voice of Satan in his pride, boasted to Our Lord: “I can destroy your Church.” The gentle voice of Our Lord: “You can? Then go ahead and do so.” Satan: “To do so, I need more time and more power.” Our Lord: "How much time? How much power? Satan: “75 to 100 years, and a greater power over those who will give themselves over to my service.” Our Lord: "You have the time, you will have the power. Do with them what you will.

In Medjugorje, our lady says that Satan approached the throne of God and asked to try the church for a period of time, the 20th Century. Also, his time is now coming to a close and is now very desperate. She also confirms that these are her last apparitions on the earth.

These seem to coincide with the… “He (Satan) must be set loose for a short time” in Revelations. Also, seems to point to the time of the Resurrection to some point in the 20th Century as being the “1000 year” era of peace. With Garabandal, Medjugorje, Fatima and all the other apparitions,…it seems we are at the door of the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary which will culminate with the 2nd coming of our Lord…

Though chastisement may be in store for the world, …it will be a glorious time for the church…and not so for those who stubbornly refuse gods mercy and remain in sin.

Just my thoughts.