The "three walls"?

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ptbenner

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Hello everyone,

I’ve been reading the forums for some time, and have learned so much about our faith! Today, however, someone asked me a question I’ve never heard before. I’m hoping someone here might know.

What are the “three walls” of Catholicism? I’ve never even heard this phrase! My friend’s college-age daughter apparently needs to answer this question for a class she’s taking.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

:confused:
 
Is that anything like the “three legs” of the stool, as taught in the Anglican tradition? Scripture, Tradition, Reason?
 
rr,
That is also Catholic, see the catechism paragraph 95. 👍

But no, I don’t think that is what ptbenner is looking for. . .

ptbenner,
Welcome to the forums!

I think it might be a reference to a work by Martin Luther, in which he criticizes the Church for having set up “three walls”. 😦
You can find it online.

God Bless,
VC
 
I’ve never heard of the three walls of Catholicism. Perhaps she meant the 3 pillars of the Church’s authority, which are Sacred Scripture, Oral Tradition, and the Magesterium.

Upon further searching, I found this, which might be what she is talking about:
“‘Luther first proposed his thesis in the appeal he made to the Emperor Charles V and the German nobility in 1520, just three years after his breach with Rome. It has since become the stock-in-trade of non-Catholic political philosophy. Directing his attack against the Church whom he charged with responsibility for the social distress in Germany, he pleaded for the tearing down of three walls which the Romanists have drawn around themselves, “so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has suffered terribly.” The second and third of these “walls,” namely, the claim that no one but the pope can summon a general council, do not concern us here, and, in fact, they were quite incidental to Luther’s main argument. His principal accusation was that, “if pressed by the temporal power, the Romanists have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but on the contrary, that the spiritual is above the temporal.’”

There’s also this page, which talks of the Three Walls of the Romanists
 
Hello everyone,

I’ve been reading the forums for some time, and have learned so much about our faith! Today, however, someone asked me a question I’ve never heard before. I’m hoping someone here might know.

What are the “three walls” of Catholicism? I’ve never even heard this phrase! My friend’s college-age daughter apparently needs to answer this question for a class she’s taking.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

:confused:
It sounds like a reference to Martin Luther’s Address to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation. Fordham’s Medieval Sourcebook is ever so helpful.
The Three Walls Of The Romanists The Romanists have, with great adroitness, drawn three walls round themselves, with which they have hitherto protected themselves, so that no one could reform them, whereby all Christendom has fallen terribly.
Firstly, if pressed by the temporal power, they have affirmed and maintained that the temporal power has no jurisdiction over them, but, on the contrary, that the spiritual power is above the temporal.
Secondly, if it were proposed to admonish them with the Scriptures, they objected that no one may interpret the Scriptures but the Pope.
Thirdly, if they are threatened with a council, they pretend that no one may call a council but the Pope.
Wall 1: authority of the spiritual power over the temporal power
Wall 2: only the Pope may interpret the Scriptures
Wall 3: only the Pope may call a council

Note of course, that’s Luther’s arguments are wrong. 🙂 And Wall 2 is a strawman.

-Rob
 
😛

You cad. 🙂

Note, however, that the Catechism wisely differentiates “reason” from “right reason”. : ) Guided by the Holy Spirit too!

God love you, rr, you made me smile.
VC
 
😛

You cad. 🙂

Note, however, that the Catechism wisely differentiates “reason” from “right reason”. : ) Guided by the Holy Spirit too!

God love you, rr, you made me smile.
VC
Well thanks. It’s been a hard week and I’m glad I did something worthwhile today! 🙂
 
Thanks for the warm welcome, and the answers!

I’m going to send my friend’s daughter Luther’s three walls. I think that’s what the question she’s answering is about. I’ll also be sure to tell her how wrong Luther was. 👍
 
Hello everyone,

I’ve been reading the forums for some time, and have learned so much about our faith! Today, however, someone asked me a question I’ve never heard before. I’m hoping someone here might know.

What are the “three walls” of Catholicism? I’ve never even heard this phrase! My friend’s college-age daughter apparently needs to answer this question for a class she’s taking.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

:confused:
Why are you asking this here? Why are you trying to help your friend’s daughter short-circuit the class instead of learning the material? If she’s being asked this, it’s because she’s supposed to know the basic ideas of Luther’s Address to the German Nobility. Either the professor hasn’t gotten the ideas across effectively, or the student is slacking. Quite possibly there’s some combination of the two at work–no student and no professor is perfect, after all. But either way, she needs first of all to make sure she’s read all the assigned material for the class. If she hasn’t, then that’s her problem and helping her out by asking the question on the Internet is simply hindering her education. If she has done her homework and still doesn’t understand, she should ask her professor. No matter whether it’s the professor’s fault or not, the professor needs to know that at least one student isn’t getting the message. I know I always want to know that.

And yes, the three walls have to do with Catholic authority claims which Luther is trying to dismantle in the Address to the German Nobility, thus winning the support of the aristocracy for his reform program by showing how it frees the Germans (especially the nobles!) from the (allegedly) tyrannical ecclesiastical power across the Alps.

Edwin
 
Why are you asking this here? Why are you trying to help your friend’s daughter short-circuit the class instead of learning the material? If she’s being asked this, it’s because she’s supposed to know the basic ideas of Luther’s Address to the German Nobility. Either the professor hasn’t gotten the ideas across effectively, or the student is slacking. Quite possibly there’s some combination of the two at work–no student and no professor is perfect, after all. But either way, she needs first of all to make sure she’s read all the assigned material for the class. If she hasn’t, then that’s her problem and helping her out by asking the question on the Internet is simply hindering her education. If she has done her homework and still doesn’t understand, she should ask her professor. No matter whether it’s the professor’s fault or not, the professor needs to know that at least one student isn’t getting the message. I know I always want to know that.

Edwin
Edwin, no need to try to impress me with your learned background. I too have taught at the univeresity leveI. If you were uncomfortable answering the question, you were certainly free to pass right by my post.

I have no idea why my friend’s daughter asked her mother this question. Nor, quite frankly, do I care. It could have been an assignment, it could have been a classroom discussion, it could have been a disagreement between classmates in the dorm. I assumed it was for a class, so that’s what I put in my original post. Our entire conversation, between my friend and I, was by email from two states away.

What I do know is that my friend, a fallen-away Catholic who is struggling with not just with her faith, but in her life, provided me an opportunity to talk about faith, God and theology. I was able to send her the information people here were gracious enough to provide, invite her to these forums and the catholic.com website and engage in a dialouge with her that has been years coming. By God’s grace, perhaps this will prompt her to continue to seek answers on other questions of faith and lead her back to the Church. I’d trade an opportunity to open someone’s eyes to the love of Christ for the possibility a freshman college student may be slinking out of one assignment any day. When the Holy Spirit opens the door you don’t slam it shut in his face.

Finally, if it is for an assignment, the answers provided here would only point her in the right direction for further research and reading. They were all great answers and much appreciated, but they certainly weren’t comprehensive enough to get a decent grade on any paper I’ve ever had the privilege, or the misfortune, of reading.

Patricia
 
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