The Traitors in the Pews

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Hmmm…now wouldn’t these be the same people who don’t like OTHERS telling THEM what to do? But they’re giving orders to the POPE !?

Thanks for bringing this one to our attention. It’s probably the most appalling thing I’ve read in awhile. Maybe, we should return the favor - and tell them THEY should “modify” THEIR stand…since it’s all wrong and. :mad:
 
That’s it. Recall the Pope.

“Ooo, I didn’t vote for you!” (in a pythonesque accent)

To the French…two words:

Inter. Dict.

Nah, just kidding. Like they’d notice. :rolleyes:

BTW, isn’t “cafeteria” a French word (cafetiere)? :hmmm:
 
Although I am a French Canadian, I don’t know how much parallel between French Canada (inside and outside of Québec) and France there is. But it has been my observation of French culture to attack the church for the quest of relentlessly striving for radical individualism.

When I was home over the Holidays, I was agast at the amount of swearing on the French Canadian channels (almost every “meaningful” swear word in French takes the Lord’s name in vein much more vulgarly than in English). Most people when they swear with these words do so with “pride” and ensure that they have good annunciation. This phenomenon seems to have exploded from when I first came out west 7 years ago.

Beyond swearing, there is a pride in French Canadian pop-culture that drives many to seperate themselves from the Church’s more “controversial” teachings (e.g. Abortion, Homosexual sex, Fornication, Divorce). And naturally it follows to push for Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation or to push the Church to “modify” its teachings.

This has been my experience and I don’t know if it is representative of the whole demographic. But I see French Canada and perhaps even France heading for a pit. I believe there is a big problem here, and we need a new St Francis de Sales to evangelize this ill strickened community. Don’t get me wrong, French Canadian culture is deep and rich in Canada and I love it very much, but I worry that it has radically changed itself and turned from its rich Catholic roots.

Is there someone else here from Ontario, Quebec or New Brunswick that can bring some perspective to this? Am I way off?

God Bless, Vive le Québec et Vive l’Acadie!
Derek
 
We must all pray for Pope Benedict. People are attacking him from every direction simply because he is defending our Catholic faith. The French should be ashamed of themselves! How could a country who produced so many saints sink so low?

***St. Joan of Arc, St. John Vianney, St. Vincent De Paul, St. Bernadette, and all the Glorious French saints, pray for the Church in France!
I knew the world would turn against the Pope eventually. It would have happened sooner, but the personality and charisma of John Paul II silenced the wolves. Pope Benedict isn’t as charismatic as his predecessor but he is a better theologian, and they don’t like him because he is defending the traditional stance of the Catholic Church regarding sexuality and liturgy.

The Pope needs our prayers at this time when all about him are vipers on the attack. We know the Gates of Hell will never prevail, but they are definitely trying.
 
derekohachey said:
Is there someone else here from Ontario, Quebec or New Brunswick that can bring some perspective to this? Am I way off?

God Bless, Vive le Québec et Vive l’Acadie!
Derek
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You’re not way off but you have to see it in context.

In the 60s, the ‘Révolution tranquille’ resulted in a shaking off of what the Quebecois perceived as the oppression of the Church which really did dictate their every move, including telling them for whom to vote, and has led to the greatly secularized society of today.

It’s interesting that you brought up swearing. Yes, it’s true that when a Francophone curses in French (if he does it in English it’s usually with the same crude or sexual words as his English counterparts) he usually strings together ‘Church words’, using the names of the sacred vessels with the occasional name of God thrown in for good measure.

It’s interesting that the Church in Québec realized that the younger people have no idea what the words even mean. Can it be a sin to curse when you don’t know what you’re actually saying and have heard those words used that way since you were a babe-in-arms? In an attempt to sensitize them to what they are saying the Church took out billboards on each of which one of the words was written in 6’ letters and then the definition was was given.

religionnewsblog.com/16742/in-french-speaking-canada-the-sacred-is-also-profane
 
Only 43% of French catholics want the pope to step down? That’s actually pretty good, considering that over 80% disagree with important church teachings on this and that. I’d be more worried the the dissenters loved him.
 
Just another “sign of the times.”

There is a certain boldness in the air these days, a worldy fighting spirit that spews rebellion and disobedience toward all that is good and holy.

Kinda reminds me of just before the election when a few good deacons and priests were trying to remind Catholics that abortion is intrinsically evil and they should think twice before voting for BO. I heard, firsthand, that some walked out of the homily during Mass.

Arrogance and belligerance reign!
 
derekohachey said:
Although I am a French Canadian, I don’t know how much parallel between French Canada (inside and outside of Québec) and France there is. But it has been my observation of French culture to attack the church for the quest of relentlessly striving for radical individualism.

When I was home over the Holidays, I was agast at the amount of swearing on the French Canadian channels (almost every “meaningful” swear word in French takes the Lord’s name in vein much more vulgarly than in English). Most people when they swear with these words do so with “pride” and ensure that they have good annunciation. This phenomenon seems to have exploded from when I first came out west 7 years ago.

Beyond swearing, there is a pride in French Canadian pop-culture that drives many to seperate themselves from the Church’s more “controversial” teachings (e.g. Abortion, Homosexual sex, Fornication, Divorce). And naturally it follows to push for Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation or to push the Church to “modify” its teachings.

This has been my experience and I don’t know if it is representative of the whole demographic. But I see French Canada and perhaps even France heading for a pit. I believe there is a big problem here, and we need a new St Francis de Sales to evangelize this ill strickened community. Don’t get me wrong, French Canadian culture is deep and rich in Canada and I love it very much, but I worry that it has radically changed itself and turned from its rich Catholic roots.

Is there someone else here from Ontario, Quebec or New Brunswick that can bring some perspective to this? Am I way off?

God Bless, Vive le Québec et Vive l’Acadie!
Derek
Click to expand...
I’m french canadian too and well there is not much you can do about the swearing … it is like a tradition in itself 😦
 
Dempsey1919 said:
We must all pray for Pope Benedict. People are attacking him from every direction simply because he is defending our Catholic faith. The French should be ashamed of themselves! How could a country who produced so many saints sink so low?

***St. Joan of Arc, St. John Vianney, St. Vincent De Paul, St. Bernadette, and all the Glorious French saints, pray for the Church in France!
I knew the world would turn against the Pope eventually. It would have happened sooner, but the personality and charisma of John Paul II silenced the wolves. Pope Benedict isn’t as charismatic as his predecessor but he is a better theologian, and they don’t like him because he is defending the traditional stance of the Catholic Church regarding sexuality and liturgy.

The Pope needs our prayers at this time when all about him are vipers on the attack. We know the Gates of Hell will never prevail, but they are definitely trying.
Click to expand...
Yes, the Holy Father definitely needs our prayers.

Isn’t it ironic how the French are turning against him, after the welcome they gave him last September when he went to Paris and to Lourdes?

I echo your invocation to the Saints of France-you picked out some of my favorites, Dempsey! 👍

Are there any ‘faithful’ left in France? Has the Eldest Daughter become a prostitute?
 
I lived in France for 2 years and lived with a French family as an aupair. I had and still have many French friends. While that doesn’t make me an expert or even close, it does give me a bit of extra perspective as to what could be causing these events.

I’ve heard from some of my french friends, some of whom are elderly, that they practiced their faith more when they were younger. They’ve commented that things changed dramatically after the war. Imagine the horrors they saw and lived. And it touched everyone’s life in some way. And even the newer generations have experienced it through their parent’s suffering. I think it would shake anyone’s faith. It certainly contributed to the attitude they have nowadays of “live and let live.” Secular humanism reigns supreme over there as well as a more “live for pleasure” philosophy.

The truth is, France is NOT a happy, joyful place. So many people there seem lost. Even in their marketing ads and campaigns, the happiness is forced. It’s sad, really. If they would just TRY living their lives in communion with the church, so much joy would be brought back to their lives. But they see the church as archaic and out of touch. Very many don’t even baptise their babies anymore.

Obviously, this is just my overly simplified opinion. If I’ve offended anyone, I’m sincerely sorry.

ETA: the traitors are not the ones in the pews, in France. The Catholic traitors in France don’t go to church anymore. Not even on Easter or Christmas. The people in the pews are the ones still somewhat devoted to the Church.
 
PJM said:
Yes, and about the same OR GREATER % of Americas bishops, priest, religious and LAITY DO NOT not obey him; so my friend should we who live in the same “glass house” be throwing stones:hmmm::nope:

Love and prayers,
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You didn’t really take this as an attack on the French, did you? The finger is pointed, quite correctly, at the wolves among the sheep everywhere.

The Church is universal, and so are its problems at the moment.
 
Regarding France - and Europe in general - of course, they are most correctly considered ‘post-Christian’ at this point. The faith of the people is at such a low, and true Christian doctrine so unwelcome in public life, it is almost astonishing.

When my wife and I were in Lourdes a few years ago we were quite surprised to hear from our tour guide that the French are not allowed to wear crucifixes externally in public! At least not in some places. This is the law there!

The government owns all the churches as well, since the Revolution.

Speaking of that, the French Revolution is one of the least-understood events of modern history, thanks to the disinformation that’s been built-up around it. It was, primarily, a rebellion against the Church. Approximately 17,000 French priests and more than double that many nuns were murdered in the course of that masonic-inspired bloodbath.

France, and, indeed, all of Western Europe, is largely a place without faith, and a place without hope, and it is thoroughly depressing to see.

Of course, we are no ‘better’ here in the States, but there is more tolerance of outward Christianity here - though perhaps not much. This is due, though, of course, more to our evangelical brothers, who outnumber us orthodox Catholics by a great margin. But thanks to them for it.
 
Paul_Folbrecht said:
Speaking of that, the French Revolution is one of the least-understood events of modern history, thanks to the disinformation that’s been built-up around it. It was, primarily, a rebellion against the Church. Approximately 17,000 French priests and more than double that many nuns were murdered in the course of that masonic-inspired bloodbath.
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Says who? Louis XVI over taxed his people to pay for his projects as well as help fund the American Revolution. HIs people were so overtaxed and poor and were frustrated by the expenditures and loose morals of the royals and aristocracy. That is what led to the revolution. They were starving. I’d love to hear where you found that they were revolting against the Church.
 
gator(name removed by moderator) said:
Says who? Louis XVI over taxed his people to pay for his projects as well as help fund the American Revolution. HIs people were so overtaxed and poor and were frustrated by the expenditures and loose morals of the royals and aristocracy. That is what led to the revolution. They were starving. I’d love to hear where you found that they were revolting against the Church.
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Doesn’t sound like you made any attempt to research the question.

What you cite was also a factor - of course! And those flames were fanned by the people that sought the revolution for their own purposes.

You were not aware that Pius VI condemned the Revolution, and the indignations he suffered?

history1700s.com/articles/article1076.shtml

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dechristianisation_of_France_during_the_French_Revolution

tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage/product_id/576/

newadvent.org/cathen/13009a.htm
 
We have our own anti-Pope (doesn’t maatter who it is ) people in Ireland.

I had a discussion with a lady this 25/3/09 about what Rome needs to do, I never heard about what the people had to do. (she couldn’t wait to get me out of her house quick enough)

And she goes to Mass to hear this Priest who preaches women Priests, ETC; little wonder the Passionist Order he is in has failed to attract anymore young men to join them. (even after a high profile newspaper add: campaign)

God will not bless orders with Priests or religious who are in opposition to the Magesterium, whilst the ones here who are in silent obedience are receiving new recruits…as my dear old departed mother used to say. " It don’t take the brains of an Archbishop to figure that one out."
 
Some French people don’t like the pope? I say deal with it, there’s nothing you can do. Personally, I really like Pope Benedict.

I think about half of my ancestors are French, and I think they left for the US possibly because of the post-Revolution atmosphere, sometime in the 1830s(?). Napolean had died by then, right? Maybe the ancestors I’m thinking of were Belgians who had left France. Yeah, I think that’s it…:confused:
 
The roots of the new schism started with the Summorum Pontificum. With the lifting of the excommunications of the SSPX Bishops, it is now in full swing.

Well, too bad. More and more priests are preparing to pray the EF. Many Dominican clergy are in favor of bringing back the Dominican Rite.

Before the internet, mainstream Catholics were lead to believe traditionalists were renegades and schismatics. But now, it’s all on the table. It is blatantly obvious that there are two mindsets, two Catholic world views, two different forms of the Latin Rite, one of which lies wide open to abuses, sacrilege, and irreverence.

H.H. BXVI tosses the seeds of healing. He’s doing what he can, yet both hard line trads and the lukewarm liberals join in an ironic common goal of urinating on the seeds our Holy Father is tossing, rather than watering them and trying to understand the importance of letting him guide the Church back on course. Some trad groups can’t help but to continue their rejection of BXI’s efforts, pointing out he “still can’t shake his modernist ways” as one poster stated on another forum. Some liberals, many of which are Bishops and Cardinals, cry that H.H. is backstepping and going against the purpose of VII.

However well intended, VII has ripped the Church apart. The “Spirit of VII” is more of a nod toward the rejection of Tradition than the embrace of it. And the only thing that casts a light of hope, is the priests who are embracing the SP and running with it. God Bless them and our Holy Father. God Bless the clergy who refused to reject Tradition, and continued to pray the TLM, and bore the stigma for doing so. And God Bless there flocks for supporting them all these years. And God Bless those laity who chose to go along with the Pauline Rite while keeping the Faith by holding tight to their personal devotions handed down to them by their parents and grandparents.

Some day, long after all here are gone, a history of the Catholic Church will be written. I have a hunch H.H.BXI will spoken well of. Indeed we must pray for him without ceasing.
 
There is a growing threat in Europe that is underplayed almost everywhere. Europe has a birth rate amongst the natives of far less than replacement. So when we see any Europeans object to the Church’s teachings on life, it is exactly what could be expected of a group determined to commit societal suicide. After all, the Church is for life and they are part of the Culture of Death.

The same thing is reflected in the US: Those millions of Catholics who contracept or have abortions strongly oppose any teaching that is against their personal desires. Many of those who have divorced cannot stand the idea of pennance and quit the Church rather than go through the processes necessary to stay in communion. They oppose the Church’s teachings on divorce.

We can expect increasing opposition to all Church teachings as the culture moves away from a Culture of Life toward a Culture of Death, as it moves from a culture of opportunity to one of government granted rights and as it abandons the idea that “we are endowed by our Creator with certain inalienable rights” to one that disavows any creator.
 
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