The Tribulation

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Faith1960

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I’m one of those people who get a little freaked out about talk of the End Times but today I was reading my Bible, as I’ve been doing most days lately. While I was reading Matthew, I read Chapter 2. I usually skip the parts about the Tribulation but today I read it.

I know that as Catholics we follow what the Bible teaches about not knowing the day or the hour Jesus will return but after reading this chapter, today, I’m wondering if the Church thinks the End Times are upon us? Much of what’s written in the Bible could pertain to the days we currently live in, but then again, there have always been wars, earthquakes etc.
Thoughts?
 
=Faith1960;6289936]
I know that as Catholics we follow what the Bible teaches about not knowing the day or the hour Jesus will return but after reading this chapter, today, I’m wondering if the Church thinks the End Times are upon us? Much of what’s written in the Bible could pertain to the days we currently live in, but then again, there have always been wars, earthquakes etc.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
The “last days” started, according to Peter, on Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came upon them.
Acts 2:14 “And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit upon all flesh”
We are currently in the 1,000 years reign of Christ ( Rev 20)
This number is symbolic and simply means a complete time. Scripture tells us that the Gospel must be preached to the whole world. There will be a conversion of Jews to the faith through baptism, there will be an antichrist, a time of tribulation for the body of Christ then when the “full number” of Gentiles comes into the Church the end will occur. (Romans 11:25)

The dead in Christ (those saved) will rise first then those alive (who are saved) will be transformed into glorified bodies in the twinkling of an eye at the sound of the last trumpet.
1 Cor. 15:51
The universe will disolve (2 Peter 3:10-13) and a new heaven and a new earth will appear Revelation 21

Your last day could occur at any moment. If you are in the state of grace you have no worries. In other words, don’t worry about it.
 
"…At the time when St John wrote the Book of Revelation, this dragon represented for him the power of the anti-Christian Roman Emperors, from Nero to Domitian. This power seemed boundless; the military, political and propagandist power of the Roman Empire was such that before it, faith, the Church, appeared as a defenseless woman with no chance of survival and even less of victory.

Who could stand up to this omnipresent force that seemed capable of achieving everything? Yet, we know that in the end it was the defenceless woman who won and not egoism or hatred; the love of God triumphed and the Roman Empire was opened to the Christian faith.

The words of Sacred Scripture always transcend the period in history. Thus, not only does this dragon suggest the anti-Christian power of the persecutors of the Church of that time, but also anti-Christian dictatorships of all periods.

We see this power, the force of the red dragon, brought into existence once again in the great dictatorships of the last century: the Nazi dictatorship and the dictatorship of Stalin monopolized all the power, penetrated every corner, the very last corner. It seemed impossible in the long term that faith could survive in the face of this dragon that was so powerful, that could not wait to devour God become a Child, as well as the woman, the Church. But also in this case, in the end love was stronger than hate.

Today too, the dragon exists in new and different ways. It exists in the form of materialistic ideologies that tell us it is absurd to think of God; it is absurd to observe God’s commandments: they are a leftover from a time past. Life is only worth living for its own sake. Take everything we can get in this brief moment of life. Consumerism, selfishness and entertainment alone are worthwhile. This is life. This is how we must live. And once again, it seems absurd, impossible, to oppose this dominant mindset with all its media and propagandist power. Today too, it seems impossible to imagine a God who created man and made himself a Child and who was to be the true ruler of the world.

Even now, this dragon appears invincible, but it is still true today that God is stronger than the dragon, that it is love which conquers rather than selfishness.

Having thus considered the various historical forms of the dragon, let us now look at the other image: the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, surrounded by 12 stars. This is also a multidimensional image.

Without any doubt, a first meaning is that it is Our Lady, Mary, clothed with the sun, that is, with God, totally; Mary who lives totally in God, surrounded and penetrated by God’s light. Surrounded by the 12 stars, that is, by the 12 tribes of Israel, by the whole People of God, by the whole Communion of Saints; and at her feet, the moon, the image of death and mortality.

con’t.
 
Mary has left death behind her; she is totally clothed in life, she is taken up body and soul into God’s glory and thus, placed in glory after overcoming death, she says to us: Take heart, it is love that wins in the end!

The message of my life was: I am the handmaid of God, my life has been a gift of myself to God and my neighbor. And this life of service now arrives in real life. May you too have trust and have the courage to live like this, countering all the threats of the dragon.

This is the first meaning of the woman whom Mary succeeded in being. The “woman clothed with the sun” is the great sign of the victory of love, of the victory of goodness, of the victory of God; a great sign of consolation.

Yet, this woman who suffered, who had to flee, who gave birth with cries of anguish, is also the Church, the pilgrim Church of all times. In all generations she has to give birth to Christ anew, to bring him very painfully into the world, with great suffering. Persecuted in all ages, it is almost as if, pursued by the dragon, she had gone to live in the wilderness.

However, in all ages, the Church, the People of God, also lives by the light of God and as the Gospel says is nourished by God, nourishing herself with the Bread of the Holy Eucharist. Thus, in all the trials in the various situations of the Church through the ages in different parts of the world, she wins through suffering. And she is the presence, the guarantee of God’s love against all the ideologies of hatred and selfishness.

We see of course that today too the dragon wants to devour God who made himself a Child. Do not fear for this seemingly frail God; the fight has already been won. Today too, this weak God is strong: he is true strength.

Thus, the Feast of the Assumption is an invitation to trust in God and also to imitate Mary in what she herself said: Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord; I put myself at the Lord’s disposal.

This is the lesson: one should travel on one’s own road; one should give life and not take it. And precisely in this way each one is on the journey of love which is the loss of self, but this losing of oneself is in fact the only way to truly find oneself, to find true life.

Let us look to Mary, taken up into Heaven. Let us be encouraged to celebrate the joyful feast with faith: God wins. Faith, which seems weak, is the true force of the world. Love is stronger than hate.

And let us say with Elizabeth: Blessed are you among women. Let us pray to you with all the Church: Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

HOLY MASS ON THE SOLEMNITY OF THE ASSUMPTION OF THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY
HOMILY OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
St. Thomas of Villanova Parish, Castel Gandolfo
Wednesday, 15 August 2007
zenit.org/article-20333?l=english
 
Faith1960 said:
I’m one of those people who get a little freaked out about talk of the End Times but today I was reading my Bible, as I’ve been doing most days lately. While I was reading Matthew, I read Chapter 2. I usually skip the parts about the Tribulation but today I read it.

I know that as Catholics we follow what the Bible teaches about not knowing the day or the hour Jesus will return but after reading this chapter, today, I’m wondering if the Church thinks the End Times are upon us? Much of what’s written in the Bible could pertain to the days we currently live in, but then again, there have always been wars, earthquakes etc.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Much of what is written on E scatology in the Bible can applied to any given point in history. Read Matthew 2 and think about living through the period leading up to and the American Revolution. Read Matthew 2 and think about the period leading up to and the French Revolution. Read Matthew 2 and think about the period leading up to and WWI. Read Matthew 2 and think about the Cold War.

Then read Revelation and realize that many of the things it talks about how not come to fruition yet like a World Government and a World Currency.

Just my $0.02
 
You want to know how close we are? Go to here jvim.com/ then click on watch TV Program and watch Jan 27 and Feb 03. The on person mentioned about the one world Government and currancy, they are working on it, it is closer then most think.
 
The Apostle John knew that the “dragon” was another name/title given to “satan” the enemy of GOD and man. Why “spiritualize” away many things that require to be taught in somewhat a “literal” manner (many protestants do this with Holy Communion by denying the Eucharist)You also allude to the “tribulation period” in a preterist kind of way (teaching the book of revelation was fulfilled in the past) The preterist vew is a lie, a veil to deceive people over the last 2000 yrs from generation to generation. All false teachings come from the devil (1 Tim 4:1) and he has “his own” in the churches teaching lies to deceive (Matt 24, Acts 20:28, 2 Pet 2, Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9)
 
jofo817 said:
Why “spiritualize” away many things that require to be taught in somewhat a “literal” manner (many protestants do this with Holy Communion by denying the Eucharist)
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Reading the spiritual sense of Scripture does not “spiritualize” the meaning away in the way Protestants misunderstand certain Catholic practices. Actually the Eucharist is a bad example, since they deny the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, which IS the spiritual meaning; they claim it is merely bread, which is physical.

A better example would be to refuse to kneel, make the sign of the cross, etc. on the grounds that they can be reverent in their hearts without using their bodies to kneel. This has a platonizing effect on their spirituality, creating a false dichotomy between body and soul. The Catholic worships God with body and soul.

Reading the spritual sense of Scripture has been a Christian practice since the very beginning. Since the Church teaches that the literal sense is primary and the spritual dependent on the literal, they are not in opposition to one another.
jofo817 said:
You also allude to the “tribulation period” in a preterist kind of way (teaching the book of revelation was fulfilled in the past) The preterist vew is a lie, a veil to deceive people over the last 2000 yrs from generation to generation.
Click to expand...
The preterist view, along with the futurist, moralist, and historicist views of the Apocalypse, is a valid means of exegesis as long as the conclusions drawn do not conflict with the whole of Scripture or with the teaching of the Magisterium.

By whose authority would you condemn the preterist view? The preterist view is gaining ground these days, with a significant minority of scholars taking the position that John wrote the Apocalypse prior to 70AD. In this view, the prophecies find their first and immediate fulfillment with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, while pointing to the events of the end times. Once again, the two are not in opposition to each other but are meant to be instructive to us.

Pax Christi,

Jim
 
rugr84me said:
You want to know how close we are? Go to here jvim.com/ then click on watch TV Program and watch Jan 27 and Feb 03. The on person mentioned about the one world Government and currancy, they are working on it, it is closer then most think.
Click to expand...
I don’t take anything Jack Van Impe says seriously. 🙂
 
I’m sure my question has been answered somewhere, but to be honest, most of what’s been posted has gone waaaaaaaay over my little, pointed head. :o:blush:
 
From:conventhill.com/endtimes/
"Before Christ’s SECOND COMING the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.
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The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the “mystery of iniquity” in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth.
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The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo- messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh. (from Section 675 of the Catechism)"
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Use your fear of the end times to draw you closer to the Lord, to more fully rely upon Him.
 
Savagedds said:
Reading the spiritual sense of Scripture does not “spiritualize” the meaning away in the way Protestants misunderstand certain Catholic practices. Actually the Eucharist is a bad example, since they deny the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, which IS the spiritual meaning; they claim it is merely bread, which is physical.

A better example would be to refuse to kneel, make the sign of the cross, etc. on the grounds that they can be reverent in their hearts without using their bodies to kneel. This has a platonizing effect on their spirituality, creating a false dichotomy between body and soul. The Catholic worships God with body and soul.

Reading the spritual sense of Scripture has been a Christian practice since the very beginning. Since the Church teaches that the literal sense is primary and the spritual dependent on the literal, they are not in opposition to one another.

the example is used is a GREAT example, not a “bad example” like “you” said…but thanks anyway jimmy boy!

The preterist view, along with the futurist, moralist, and historicist views of the Apocalypse, is a valid means of exegesis as long as the conclusions drawn do not conflict with the whole of Scripture or with the teaching of the Magisterium.

By whose authority would you condemn the preterist view? The preterist view is gaining ground these days, with a significant minority of scholars taking the position that John wrote the Apocalypse prior to 70AD. In this view, the prophecies find their first and immediate fulfillment with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, while pointing to the events of the end times. Once again, the two are not in opposition to each other but are meant to be instructive to us.

Pax Christi,

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Savagedds said:
Reading the spiritual sense of Scripture does not “spiritualize” the meaning away in the way Protestants misunderstand certain Catholic practices. Actually the Eucharist is a bad example, since they deny the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, which IS the spiritual meaning; they claim it is merely bread, which is physical.

A better example would be to refuse to kneel, make the sign of the cross, etc. on the grounds that they can be reverent in their hearts without using their bodies to kneel. This has a platonizing effect on their spirituality, creating a false dichotomy between body and soul. The Catholic worships God with body and soul.

Reading the spritual sense of Scripture has been a Christian practice since the very beginning. Since the Church teaches that the literal sense is primary and the spritual dependent on the literal, they are not in opposition to one another.

The example is used is a GREAT example, not a “bad example” like you said it was jimmy boy. but thanks, none the less!

The preterist view, along with the futurist, moralist, and historicist views of the Apocalypse, is a valid means of exegesis as long as the conclusions drawn do not conflict with the whole of Scripture or with the teaching of the Magisterium.

By whose authority would you condemn the preterist view? The preterist view is gaining ground these days, with a significant minority of scholars taking the position that John wrote the Apocalypse prior to 70AD. In this view, the prophecies find their first and immediate fulfillment with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, while pointing to the events of the end times. Once again, the two are not in opposition to each other but are meant to be instructive to us.

Pax Christi,

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Springkeeper said:
From:conventhill.com/endtimes/

Use your fear of the end times to draw you closer to the Lord, to more fully rely upon Him.
Click to expand...
But remember that the church always reminds us that with joyful hope and anticipation we look to God and heaven as we CHOOSE to follow him and KNOW we will be with him one day even if not in the current day.
But on an personal note I do and me think so does the church, I for one am really happy that I see Catholics Come Home .org on the TV. and are ways in which we can observe the Harvest is close at hand to be reaped more intently than before just maybe they Rome and the American Bishops Council are stepping up to the plate so when the voice from above and the visual heavens open up and we all go before the Lord; We as individuals as we as the clergy can then say we done our best to bring those fallen back. And yes this is only my personal reply not to offend or make angry the church or its Holy order leaders.
 
Springkeeper said:
From:conventhill.com/endtimes/

Use your fear of the end times to draw you closer to the Lord, to more fully rely upon Him.
Click to expand...
But remember that the church always reminds us that with joyful hope and anticipation we look to God and heaven as we CHOOSE to follow him and KNOW we will be with him one day even if not in the current day.
But on an personal note I do and me think so does the church, I for one am really happy that I see Catholics Come Home .org on the TV. and are ways in which we can observe the Harvest is close at hand to be reaped more intently than before just maybe they Rome and the American Bishops Council are stepping up to the plate so when the voice from above and the visual heavens open up and we all go before the Lord; We as individuals and those of the clergy can then say we done our best to bring those fallen back. And yes this is only my personal reply not to offend or make angry the church or its Holy order leaders.
 
Faith1960 said:
I’m one of those people who get a little freaked out about talk of the End Times but today I was reading my Bible, as I’ve been doing most days lately. While I was reading Matthew, I read Chapter 2. I usually skip the parts about the Tribulation but today I read it.

I know that as Catholics we follow what the Bible teaches about not knowing the day or the hour Jesus will return but after reading this chapter, today, I’m wondering if the Church thinks the End Times are upon us? Much of what’s written in the Bible could pertain to the days we currently live in, but then again, there have always been wars, earthquakes etc.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
I have no idea what you might have read in Matthew Chapter 2 about the Tribulation. The short answer is that we are in the end times, and have been since the birth, life, death and resurrection of the Christ.

However, you might want to read these additional verses and inform your faith so that you might not be so fearful. The last thing Jesus wants is for us to be afraid:

Catholics understand that to be saved, our faith must endure to the end of our lives:
Matthew 10:22 “You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.”

Catholics understand that the parable of the Sower gives insight to the end times:
Matthew 13:38-43 "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels. "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. “The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

And the scripture you might have been reading in Matthew 24: 24-31 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. "Behold, I have told you in advance. "So if they say to you,‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. "But immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and great glory. “And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.”

Catholics understand Matthew 28:19-20 in terms of the Word, of the Holy Spirit, of the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and in His Body the Church. There is no need of waiting for the Kingdom of God to arrive, or of waiting for the second coming of Christ. He is already here! Christ is with us now, in His Word, through the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit (through the laying on of hands in Baptism/Confirmation), in His Real presence in the most Holy Eucharist, in the sacrament of Confession, and in His Body, the Church, and He will continue to be so until the end: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Similar Words are also found in the rest of the Gospel of Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, John 6:27, Acts 14:22, 2 Thessalonians 2, Romans 2:9, 5:3, 8:35, and 12:12, Revelation 1:9, 2:9-10, and 7:9-14.

Fear is the probably the last thing we ought to feel when experiencing tribulation, when contemplating the end of days, or in examining the present condition of our times. When we fall into fear, it is Satan who has a grip on us. Pray about that grip, and ask Christ to help you to live in His peace. There is likely something in your life that is standing in His Way, so to speak.

Gene
 
climer97007 said:
And the scripture you might have been reading in Matthew 24: 24-31 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. "Behold, I have told you in advance. "So if they say to you,‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them. "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. "Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather. "But immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds with power and great glory. “And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.”
Click to expand...
Yes, those are the verses I wrote about. And the question remains – does the Church consider the current state of the world the tribulation spoken of in the Bible, the one that shortly precedes the end of the world?
 
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