The Tribulation

  • Thread starter Thread starter Faith1960
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Just curious, may I ask why?
You’re kidding right?
Even back in the days when I was a dispensational fundamentalist I found Jack Van Impe very embarrassing.
Lets put doctrine aside and look at it objectively. The style he and his wife employ is so obvously geared toward a dumbed down audience as to be unintentionally hilarious. And I’m not kidding. If I didn’t know they were serious, I would think the show was a parody. The announcer had me rolling on the floor: “and now back to Reeeeeeeeeeexela”. :rolleyes:
Someone said once the two easiest groups to parody are Nazis and Televangelists. Why? Because they are charactitures of themselves.
If you want to talk dispensationalism, fine. But even most dispensationalists are embarrased by these two clowns.
 
Theres quite a few people selling books about the last days. I think there not as concerned about it as the ones buying it, Look at the Millions that were made on the left behind series. What most people do not realize is that the Book of revelation almost never made in into the bible. Do i worry about the last days? No as i feel when you die that is your last days and i’m a firm believer that revelation was a coded book written for the Christians as a book of hope and over coming.Think about this how many people die every day in the world as it has to be in the millions so that is quite a crowd appearing before GOD daily.
 
I’m one of those people who get a little freaked out about talk of the End Times but today I was reading my Bible, as I’ve been doing most days lately. While I was reading Matthew, I read Chapter 2. I usually skip the parts about the Tribulation but today I read it.

I know that as Catholics we follow what the Bible teaches about not knowing the day or the hour Jesus will return but after reading this chapter, today, I’m wondering if the Church thinks the End Times are upon us? Much of what’s written in the Bible could pertain to the days we currently live in, but then again, there have always been wars, earthquakes etc.
Thoughts?
The tribulation period is not mentioned in Matthew chapter 2. Chapter 24briefly speaks of the tribulation period and the 2nd coming of our Lord Jesus Christ to earth to set up His earthly kingdom with Israel and the nations. You can find a more expanded view of the tribulation period in the book of Revelation. The Body of Christ will not go through the tribulation. We will be “caught up” to be with the Lord Jesus Christ before the tribulation. We are not subject to the wrath of God. Thank HIM for that! I pray that you are saved and know it and will study the Word of God about the tribulation and 2nd advent.

Grace and Peace,

QC
 
If you want some seriously good teaching on the end times from an authentic Catholic position, I would suggest that you invest the little bit it will cost you to pick up the following excellent study booklet from San Juan Catholic Seminars . Catholic Answers online bookstore has it too.
Beginning Apologetics 8 http://shop.catholicapologetics.com/images/1166426830964382967293.jpeg
  • Item #: BA-8
    Code:
                                                                                                             Beginning Apologetics 8: How to Explain and Defend the End Times: What Catholics believe about the Second Coming, the Rapture, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, and Indulgences. (40 pages, $5.95)                                                        
                                                                                                                                                                                                    
                                    *Qty*                                                                                                                                                                                                                             *Price*                                                                   $5.95
 
Much of what’s written in the Bible could pertain to the days we currently live in, but then again, there have always been wars, earthquakes etc.
You need to factor in that today we have the Jews going back to the land of Israel and be restored when the Messiah comes back to rescue her. Most of the world rejects Israel as an “occupying force” and the hottest topics of the nations today is the Jews ownership of Jerusalem.
 
The tribulation is the time that God has set for the Jews to realize that Jesus is their messiah. This is also a call to those who have not accepted Christ to call on His name and be their Savior during the time of the trial as said in Revelation Ch. 3 Verse 10
“Because you have kept my plea to stand fast, I will keep you safe from the time of trial which is coming on the whole world.”
The Tribulation is the time of the trial. This is the Lord’s final call to repentance.
 
Much of what is written on E scatology in the Bible can applied to any given point in history. Read Matthew 2 and think about living through the period leading up to and the American Revolution. Read Matthew 2 and think about the period leading up to and the French Revolution. Read Matthew 2 and think about the period leading up to and WWI. Read Matthew 2 and think about the Cold War.

Then read Revelation and realize that many of the things it talks about how not come to fruition yet like a World Government and a World Currency.

Just my $0.02
I don’t have my Bible in front of me right now, but I’ve read Revelation many times. Where in Revelation does it prophesy about one world government and a one world currency?
 
I don’t think there is any writing written by any one any where that has caused as much confusion as Revelation. Even the early Church fathers and those since have never came to a concensus of what it actually means.The closest they have ever come in agreement is one, no one really knows if the John of Revelation is the John the Apostle, and that it was written so that the early Christian understood it but the Roman persecutors did not.
 
I don’t think there is any writing written by any one any where that has caused as much confusion as Revelation. Even the early Church fathers and those since have never came to a concensus of what it actually means.The closest they have ever come in agreement is one, no one really knows if the John of Revelation is the John the Apostle, and that it was written so that the early Christian understood it but the Roman persecutors did not.
Is that true? My idea was that it was almost certain that Apostle John wrote Revelation.
 
Yes, those are the verses I wrote about. And the question remains – does the Church consider the current state of the world the tribulation spoken of in the Bible, the one that shortly precedes the end of the world?
Do you still do not understand? Can you not hear? Can you not understand? Can you not read the signs of the times? Jesus said these or similar words to those who just did not get it.

You need to get away from the end times Rapturists, the political Christ who is going to take over the new world orderists, the Hal Lindsey = Late Great Planet Earth political conspiracy theorists, the Benny Hinn health and wealth Gospel deceivers, and any religious cult predicting the year, day, or hour, of the end times, including sects like the Jehovas Witnesses, the ***Mayan calendar 2012 ***end of the world hype’sters, Tim LaHaye’s Left Behinders, and the hundreds and hundreds of other ***profiteers of every ilk ***who could care less about eternity, or Christ, or about Truth, or about Salvation, all those profiteers who simply understand that end times hype=profits, that end times sermons bring in new members.

If the Truth was all that people were concerned about, we’d all be Catholic. The temptations are to run down all these other rabbit holes and to get lost in the process, eternally lost.

The end times are upon all of us and have been since Jesus lived, died, and rose from the dead. You see, St Peter lived in His End Times. So did St Paul. So did the Christians of every age until now. There will eventually be One magnificent and terrible end, but, make no mistake, NO ONE KNOWS the day or the hour of the last tribulation. This is the Catholic view point because this is simply what Jesus literally said.

I will say it again because it apparently needs to be repeated over and over again, in Matthew 24:36 Jesus says "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.". I mean, this is really very simple, literal and clear. What part of this are you having trouble with?

This is the One and Eternal Truth as spoken by Christ Himself, and yet false prohets have arisen just as Jesus Himself said they would (Re-read Matthew 24). And these false prophets are deceiving everyone, accept the elect, and the elect in this context are all those who have remained faithful to the original teaching of Jesus.

And yet you ask: ***“So, when is it? Really. Is it now?” ***And 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, 5 years, or even 50 years later, you might still be asking, “Is it now?” You are thinking like a child. On every journey taken by a child, the child asks incessently, ***“Are we there yet?” ***You see the problem here?

We get there when we get there. And we are all going to get there by going through our own trials and tribulations. There is no Christian on earth who will not experience trial and tribulation. Jesus Himself experienced Trials and Tribulations! And His Body, the Church, must do what He did, and more! And that includes THE TRIBULATION in the end. If you think that you can avoid tribulation, or even THE TRIBULATION, then you have fallen into the deception of a false Gospel and need to seek out and to grab ahold of the Truth.

Please, re-read all these scriptures: Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, John 6:27, Acts 14:22, 2nd Thessalonians CH 2, Romans 2:9, 5:3, 8:35, and 12:12, Revelation 1:9, 2:9-10, and 7:9-14. There are countless more references throughout the New Testament which describe the Kingdom of God, which describe the Kingdom of Heaven, which speak of the end, and in every case, in every verse, in every parable, in every example, in every single one, there is the tribulation, and THEN HE COMES.

Read these verses again, and again, in context. See for yourself what these verses teach, what Jesus says and what the Church He left behind continues to say to all those who have ears to hear.

Until the end in Christ,

Gene
 
Do you still do not understand? Can you not hear? Can you not understand? Can you not read the signs of the times? Jesus said these or similar words to those who just did not get it.

You need to get away from the end times Rapturists, the political Christ who is going to take over the new world orderists, the Hal Lindsey = Late Great Planet Earth political conspiracy theorists, the Benny Hinn health and wealth Gospel deceivers, and any religious cult predicting the year, day, or hour, of the end times, including sects like the Jehovas Witnesses, the ***Mayan calendar 2012 ***end of the world hype’sters, Tim LaHaye’s Left Behinders, and the hundreds and hundreds of other ***profiteers of every ilk ***who could care less about eternity, or Christ, or about Truth, or about Salvation, all those profiteers who simply understand that end times hype=profits, that end times sermons bring in new members.

If the Truth was all that people were concerned about, we’d all be Catholic. The temptations are to run down all these other rabbit holes and to get lost in the process, eternally lost.

The end times are upon all of us and have been since Jesus lived, died, and rose from the dead. You see, St Peter lived in His End Times. So did St Paul. So did the Christians of every age until now. There will eventually be One magnificent and terrible end, but, make no mistake, NO ONE KNOWS the day or the hour of the last tribulation. This is the Catholic view point because this is simply what Jesus literally said.

I will say it again because it apparently needs to be repeated over and over again, in Matthew 24:36 Jesus says "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.". I mean, this is really very simple, literal and clear. What part of this are you having trouble with?

This is the One and Eternal Truth as spoken by Christ Himself, and yet false prohets have arisen just as Jesus Himself said they would (Re-read Matthew 24). And these false prophets are deceiving everyone, accept the elect, and the elect in this context are all those who have remained faithful to the original teaching of Jesus.

And yet you ask: ***“So, when is it? Really. Is it now?” ***And 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, 5 years, or even 50 years later, you might still be asking, “Is it now?” You are thinking like a child. On every journey taken by a child, the child asks incessently, ***“Are we there yet?” ***You see the problem here?

We get there when we get there. And we are all going to get there by going through our own trials and tribulations. There is no Christian on earth who will not experience trial and tribulation. Jesus Himself experienced Trials and Tribulations! And His Body, the Church, must do what He did, and more! And that includes THE TRIBULATION in the end. If you think that you can avoid tribulation, or even THE TRIBULATION, then you have fallen into the deception of a false Gospel and need to seek out and to grab ahold of the Truth.

Please, re-read all these scriptures: Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, John 6:27, Acts 14:22, 2nd Thessalonians CH 2, Romans 2:9, 5:3, 8:35, and 12:12, Revelation 1:9, 2:9-10, and 7:9-14. There are countless more references throughout the New Testament which describe the Kingdom of God, which describe the Kingdom of Heaven, which speak of the end, and in every case, in every verse, in every parable, in every example, in every single one, there is the tribulation, and THEN HE COMES.

Read these verses again, and again, in context. See for yourself what these verses teach, what Jesus says and what the Church He left behind continues to say to all those who have ears to hear.

Until the end in Christ,

Gene
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
It is very dangerous for Catholics to toy with this dispensationalist end-times theology. Because it ultimately leads OUT of the Church.
 
If the Truth was all that people were concerned about, we’d all be Catholic.

We get there when we get there. And we are all going to get there by going through our own trials and tribulations. There is no Christian on earth who will not experience trial and tribulation. Jesus Himself experienced Trials and Tribulations! And His Body, the Church, must do what He did, and more! And that includes THE TRIBULATION in the end. If you think that you can avoid tribulation, or even THE TRIBULATION, then you have fallen into the deception of a false Gospel and need to seek out and to grab ahold of the Truth.
#1. Amen to that!

#2. One of the saddest things I hear is when Rapture-believers go on about how horrible the Tribulation is going to be but say that’s okay because we won’t be here, it is only for those non-Baptist ungodly types who are going to hell anyway.
 
Nope it is by tradition(small T) that it was John the Apostle who wrote it but never a concensus. Almost every bible scholar will admit that the John of Revelation writing style is unlike John the Apostle. That is one of the reasons it was such a battle to get it accepted as part of Bible Canon in 397 and if memory serves me correctly i believed it was accepted by one vote. I believe part of the argument against it was that John the Apostle being imprisoned on the Isle of Patmos was not mentioned by the early first writers such as Ignatius,Polycarp and others as it was believed that they would have made mention of it.
 
:clapping::clapping::clapping:
It is very dangerous for Catholics to toy with this dispensationalist end-times theology. Because it ultimately leads OUT of the Church.
I am not sure I understand your meaning here. Are you threatening Catholics who speak out against the false dispensationalist gospel, saying it is dangerous for Catholics to do this, by taking on this group? Or are you saying it is dangerous to the soul of a Catholic, of anyone really, to embrace dispensationism? I don’t know you well enough to know what point you are making here.
Thanks,
Gene
 
I am not sure I understand your meaning here. Are you threatening Catholics who speak out against the false dispensationalist gospel, saying it is dangerous for Catholics to do this, by taking on this group? Or are you saying it is dangerous to the soul of a Catholic, of anyone really, to embrace dispensationism? I don’t know you well enough to know what point you are making here.
Thanks,
Gene
If you look up in the upper right hand corner of my post you can see I am a Catholic.
Sheesh dude, I was giving you a compliment!!:cool:
 
If you look up in the upper right hand corner of my post you can see I am a Catholic. Sheesh dude, I was giving you a compliment!!:cool:
Ooops. :blackeye: My bad. :imsorry: I actually never noticed that before. :newidea: Thanks for pointing that out. I wonder what mine says? I’ll have to look and see. :bigyikes:
Gene
 
Ooops. :blackeye: My bad. :imsorry: I actually never noticed that before. :newidea: Thanks for pointing that out. I wonder what mine says? I’ll have to look and see. :bigyikes:
Gene
Ah, don’t sweat it, no damage done.😉

My point is however that certain dispensationalist teachers like Jack Van Impe deliberately intice Catholics making them think that he is a ‘friend’ to Catholics and the Catholic Church agrees with him, which it doesn’t. But the uncathecized Catholics who watch his show don’t know that.
When I was a Baptist preacher I knew another preacher who held ‘prophecy seminars’ every year to use as an ‘evangelistic’ tool to convert Catholics. That is not an uncommon tactic.
Hal Lindsay, Grant Jeffrey, Jack Van Impe, might appear to be great friends to the Catholic Church. But take my word for it, they’re not.
 
I’m one of those people who get a little freaked out about talk of the End Times but today I was reading my Bible, as I’ve been doing most days lately. While I was reading Matthew, I read Chapter 2. I usually skip the parts about the Tribulation but today I read it.

I know that as Catholics we follow what the Bible teaches about not knowing the day or the hour Jesus will return but after reading this chapter, today, I’m wondering if the Church thinks the End Times are upon us? Much of what’s written in the Bible could pertain to the days we currently live in, but then again, there have always been wars, earthquakes etc.
Thoughts?
I am not sure but I think the Church teaches that the end times have been upon us ever since Pentecost in the 1st century.
 
Thanks for the question faith1960:

One comment I would add to those already posted (although this comment does not necessarily apply specifically to Matthew 2), Revelations is apocalyptic literature. One of the characteristics of this genre of literature is that EVERYTHING described in the book has ALREADY happened in the days of the author. This means that John saw everything he wrote in Revelations as having already happened.

Yes there is a prophetic undercurrent that points to future events present here as in all apocalyptic literature. But as already said, if you put your faith in Jesus and are in a continuous state of grace you have nothing to worry about. And in case you are worried about your non-christian friends and family, we are also promised by St. Paul not to worry for our prayers for their conversion WILL be answered - i.e. they will come to faith, be baptised and repent of their sins and thus WILL be saved in the end.

Iamanea
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top