The Tribulation

[Garland]

Howdy folks , just butting in a little. As a former baptist preacher I have given a lot of thought to the end times, and used it to get more folks to “get saved”. That has been 40 years now since I found the true church and embraced her and her teachings. THANK JESUS. I guess this could be a little morbid but, each person starts his journey to the grave at the moment of conception. When we speak of the end time collectively the tribulation gets to be scary and is used by most protestants to gather more converts to whatever denomination the person is from. This is painfully evident when there missionaries go to a catholic country to “save” the already christians from catholic error. It usually leads to one sect feeding on another until there is mass confusion and eventually loss of all the folks who fall in the trap.

  When viewed personally the end comes for someone every second and lots of times painfully so. The trick is to get yourself in the true church, Catholic, make use of the sacrements and live in a state of grace while praying always for ourselves and the whole world and no matter what happens we make it.  There are always people who will try to be "stumbling blocks" and satan delights in them and every time he can get you to worry about the "tribulation" or the "end time" he has a party.

   I sing an old mountian ballad from the eastern Ky mtns when satan tempts me and grab my Rosary and say the devine mercy after the Rosary and the scoundrel hasn`t got a chance.
                    I made a promise to follow Jesus
                    I made a promise to follow Jesus
                    I made a promise to follow Jesus
                       no turning back
                       no turning back
  Don`t worry about things you can`t control, just trust and obey and you will be OK. Be a good citizen and always put your faith first in voteing, speaking to your family or total strangers, and defending Holy Mother Church. He who hears you [CHRUCH] hears me. With heart felt love for the whole world, Blessings. Garland

 

[climer97007]

Howdy folks, just butting in a little. As a former Baptist preacher I have given a lot of thought to the end times, and used it to get more folks to “get saved”… When we speak of the end time collectively the tribulation gets to be scary and is used by most protestants to gather more converts to whatever denomination the person is from. This is painfully evident when there missionaries go to a catholic country to “save” the already christians from catholic error. It usually leads to one sect feeding on another until there is mass confusion and eventually loss of all the folks who fall in the trap.

Dont worry about things you cant control, just trust and obey and you will be OK. Be a good citizen and always put your faith first in voteing, speaking to your family or total strangers, and defending Holy Mother Church. He who hears you [CHRUCH] hears me. With heart felt love for the whole world, Blessings. Garland

Garland, you have the right idea here.

Yet, you have also hit upon one of the most troubling aspects of American influence in the world today. I am speaking here of the same problem that Jesus had with Judas some 2,000 years ago. Namely, that some of Jesus’ followers expected Him to be King, to take on Rome, and to kick butt politically and militarily, and Judas was among these followers.

Today this same tragedy is being worked out in the middle east, through the USA’s relationship with Israel. There are many Christian sects including evangelicals, pentecostals, baptists, and others, and even a few confused Catholics, who are being used behind the closed doors of Free Masonry to carry out the biggest deception in all of human history, namely that event in history which will occur when the last and greatest Tribulation of all times is ushered in.

I am here speaking of the last and greatest of anti-Christs. Not just a guy like Hitler, a Catholic, who can be seen as a modern model of this future anti-Christ, though the last one will be even worse. This is the guy who fallen Christendom will unite under as the 2nd coming of Christ, though he will actually be the anti-Christ. This is the Tribulation that we all need to start praying against and preparing for.

Countless Christians have already been sucked into this deception of all deceptions, and have the idea that tribulation is not something that they will ever have to worry about, that Jesus will save them from all suffering. The soldiers that fought in WWII could have some insight to the nature of Tribulation and who will have to deal with it or not. It is not hard to see tribulation all around us.

You probably have some insight to all this now, having crossed the Tiber into Catholicism after being a Baptist preacher. What new insights if any, have you gained about the nature of suffering, grace, and the teaching on the anti-Christ and the coming final Tribulation at the end of the age, whenever that may be. Or are you something more like St. Thomas Aquinas who as he neared the end of his life, began to think of all his former thoughts as mere vanity in the face of the approaching end of his days?

Gene

 

[REESE_HOWELL]

at every mass we pray for the return of Jesus Christ

 

[Garland]

Climer97007, Hi brother, I didnt mean we would escape the pain or horrow of the tribulation, but that faithfullness and the sacrements would make us strong enough to withstand anything that comes at us from the father of lies. My own life here grows very short due to age and bad health and I await his comming for me with joyful antisapation. I, as St. Paul has said , have fought the good fight and know in my heart that his power in me is sufficent to see me through anything. My own journey from protestantism has been one of awe and insperation. The differences are so profound as to be almost humorous if it werent so important. Its like comparing a rock to a diamond. When one crosses the tiber it is like the parable of the pearl in the field where the man sells all he has to buy the field so he can own the pearl. Most baptist become very defencive when they are questioned about christianity and sola scriptura. Once they take the plunge into the tiber they feel like a kid who has had a great prize staring them in the face and could not or would not see it. It is all about will.
Steve Ray, a baptist convert, has given a great testament to this fact and you can get it on tape from St Joseph Press. He walked the road to Rome and had great obstecales thrown at him from the deciever.
Patrick Madrid has written 3 books, Suprised By Truth 1, 2 ,& 3. Great reading and witness. Amazon has all the books mentioned. Alex Jones, a minister lead his congregation to become catholic after searching for an apostolic worship service. That type of service was only found in the Catholic Church.
When a person wants what Jesus wants and studies the early church Fathers, he will cease to be protestant. I guess what I am saying is complete faith and trust will get you home. Blessings. Garland

 

[climer97007]

Climer97007, Hi brother, I didnt mean we would escape the pain or horrow of the tribulation, but that faithfullness and the sacrements would make us strong enough to withstand anything that comes at us from the father of lies. My own life here grows very short due to age and bad health and I await his comming for me with joyful antisapation. I, as St. Paul has said , have fought the good fight and know in my heart that his power in me is sufficent to see me through anything. My own journey from protestantism has been one of awe and insperation. The differences are so profound as to be almost humorous if it werent so important. Its like comparing a rock to a diamond.
When one crosses the tiber it is like the parable of the pearl in the field where the man sells all he has to buy the field so he can own the pearl. Most baptist become very defencive when they are questioned about christianity and sola scriptura. Once they take the plunge into the tiber they feel like a kid who has had a great prize staring them in the face and could not or would not see it. It is all about will.
When a person wants what Jesus wants and studies the early church Fathers, he will cease to be protestant. I guess what I am saying is complete faith and trust will get you home. Blessings. Garland

Well said! Thank you for your faithfulness and your testimony! Gene

 

[Lev23]

The tribulation is the time that God has set for the Jews to realize that Jesus is their messiah. This is also a call to those who have not accepted Christ to call on His name and be their Savior during the time of the trial as said in Revelation Ch. 3 Verse 10
“Because you have kept my plea to stand fast, I will keep you safe from the time of trial which is coming on the whole world.”
The Tribulation is the time of the trial. This is the Lord’s final call to repentance.

I totally agree with you. The Jews will play a big part in the tribulation. And why not? The Gospel right now is “…to the Jew first…”.

 

[Bengoshi]

You’re kidding right?
Even back in the days when I was a dispensational fundamentalist I found Jack Van Impe very embarrassing.
Lets put doctrine aside and look at it objectively. The style he and his wife employ is so obvously geared toward a dumbed down audience as to be unintentionally hilarious. And I’m not kidding. If I didn’t know they were serious, I would think the show was a parody. The announcer had me rolling on the floor: “and now back to Reeeeeeeeeeexela”.
Someone said once the two easiest groups to parody are Nazis and Televangelists. Why? Because they are charactitures of themselves.
If you want to talk dispensationalism, fine. But even most dispensationalists are embarrased by these two clowns.

I see… Thanks! It was an honest question, I haven’t really tried listening to them yet.

 

[Lev23]

I don’t have my Bible in front of me right now, but I’ve read Revelation many times. Where in Revelation does it prophesy about one world government and a one world currency?

Take a look at Revelation 13 .

 

[climer97007]

Take a look at Revelation 13 (RE: One World Governemnt and One World Currency).

I think the New American Bible’s notes at pretty clear on this. You might be surprised. You can read them in Context here:
usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation13.htm

This just goes to show you why you really need to get away from all these false prophet Televangelists, late great planet earth book publishers, left behind fiction writers, 2012 mayan calender movie makers, etc… as they simply can’t find a way to make an honest buck by simply telling the TRUTH. Lies and human fabrications are much more TEMPTING.

If you don’t want to go there, I have excerpted the Scripture Notes for Revelation Chapter 13 here (Gene Climer):

1 [1-10] This wild beast, combining features of the four beasts in Daniel 7:2-28, symbolizes the Roman empire; the seven heads represent the emperors; see the notes on Rev 17:10 and Rev 17:12-14. The blasphemous names are the divine titles assumed by the emperors.

2 [2] Satan (Rev 12:9), the prince of this world (John 12:31), commissioned the beast to persecute the church (Rev 13:5-7).

3 [3] This may be a reference to the popular legend that Nero would come back to life and rule again after his death (which occurred in A.D. 68 from a self-inflicted stab wound in the throat); cf Rev 13:14; Rev 17:8. Domitian (A.D. 81-96) embodied all the cruelty and impiety of Nero. Cf Introduction.

4 [4] Worshiped the beast: allusion to emperor worship, which Domitian insisted upon and ruthlessly enforced. Who can compare with the beast: perhaps a deliberate parody of the name Michael; see the note on Rev 12:7.

5 [5-6] Domitian, like Antiochus IV Epiphanes (Daniel 7:8, 11, 25), demanded that he be called by divine titles such as “our lord and god” and “Jupiter.” See the note on Rev 11:2.

6 [5] Forty-two months: this is the same duration as the profanation of the holy city (Rev 11:2), the prophetic mission of the two witnesses (Rev 11:3), and the retreat of the woman into the desert (Rev 12:6, 14).

7 [11-18] The second beast is described in terms of the false prophets (cf Rev 16:13; 19:20; 20:10) who accompany the false messiahs (the first beast); cf Matthew 24:24; Mark 13:22; 2 Thes 2:9; cf also Deut 13:2-4. Christians had either to worship the emperor and his image or to suffer martyrdom.

8 [18] Each of the letters of the alphabet in Hebrew as well as in Greek has a numerical value. Many possible combinations of letters will add up to 666, and many candidates have been nominated for this infamous number. The most likely is the emperor Caesar Nero (see the note on Rev 13:3), the Greek form of whose name in Hebrew letters gives the required sum. (The Latin form of this name equals 616, which is the reading of a few manuscripts.) Nero personifies the emperors who viciously persecuted the church. It has also been observed that “6” represents imperfection, falling short of the perfect number “7,” and is represented here in a triple or superlative form.

 

[Lev23]

I think the New American Bible’s notes at pretty clear on this. You might be surprised. You can read them in Context here:
usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/revelation13.htm

This just goes to show you why you really need to get away from all these false prophet Televangelists, late great planet earth book publishers, left behind fiction writers, 2012 mayan calender movie makers, etc… as they simply can’t find a way to make an honest buck by simply telling the TRUTH. Lies and human fabrications are much more TEMPTING.

If you don’t want to go there, I have excerpted the Scripture Notes for Revelation Chapter 13 here (Gene Climer):

Actually, I checked it out, and thanks for the link and quotes from it here.

I wouldn’t say these bible notes make the issue pretty clear. Especially when the notes state things like “This may be” and “The most likely”.

I checked out the notes on what they said about Jeremiah 23:7-8, which is about the whole people of Israel going back to the land of Israel.
The notes state-
“The final verses, Jeremiah 23:7-8 were probably added during the exile.”

 

[DanLyn]

I have read the passages from Revelations too, and I’m not sure how the footnotes can be so specific when the book was written metaphorically. If you apply the scriptured visions to modern times, then it seems unrealistic for a modern Roman empire.

I believe the beast will be a religion bent on world domination, with the anti-Christ as it’s leader. Some seem to share this opion, and some don’t, so I don’t claim to be right.

 

[Lev23]

I have read the passages from Revelations too, and I’m not sure how the footnotes can be so specific when the book was written metaphorically. If you apply the scriptured visions to modern times, then it seems unrealistic for a modern Roman empire.

So climer97007 said these footnotes make it pretty clear, you say they cannot be so specific of the way they were metaphorically written. Which is it?

 

[Lev23]

The notes never address " and it was granted authority over every tribe, people, tongue, and nation."

Sounds like one world to me.

 

[DanLyn]

I guess it’s like the “if the shoe fits” theory. The scriptures according to John’s Revelation and the books according to Daniel and Ezekiel in the OT seem to fit a Religious World Order better than anything else. Which Religion today is best suited to step into this role? Some think that this will be some “new” religion based on a new Political “power house” based in Rome. I just don’t think that’s realistic in this day and age. Maybe if we make it another 100 years, things will be different and we’ll all have new theories.

 

[climer97007]

Actually, I checked it out, and thanks for the link and quotes from it here. I wouldn’t say these bible notes make the issue pretty clear. Especially when the notes state things like “This may be” and “The most likely”.

I checked out the notes on what they said about Jeremiah 23:7-8, which is about the whole people of Israel going back to the land of Israel.

The notes on Jeremiah also state: “the messianic King will be in reality what Zedekiah’s name falsely proclaims him.”.

This messianic King who is given in Jeremiah is only a shadow and prefiguring of Jesus the Christ, our Lord and King forever. The Kingdom of God is now, and has been for 2,000 years in Christ.

You can list all the doubts you want on what may be, and what most likely might be, etc… The real trouble is that you may well be missing the Kingdom of God now.

The references in Revelation clearly leave the understanding that these events are now way past tense.

Gene

 

[Lev23]

The notes on Jeremiah also state: “the messianic King will be in reality what Zedekiah’s name falsely proclaims him.”.

This messianic King who is given in Jeremiah is only a shadow and prefiguring of Jesus the Christ, our Lord and King forever. The Kingdom of God is now, and has been for 2,000 years in Christ.

…and it will be. This includes the full restoration of Israel out of all nations. Like Jeremiah 23:7-8 states. On what basis does the author of the footnotes make the claim verses 7 and 8 were probably added in the exile? Is he saying these were just “inspired, hopeful” words of the exiled Jews in Babylon, sort of like, wishful thinking? Or was this actually prophesied and added in Jeremiah while in exile? The footnotes are very vague. I get the same kind of message on some of his footnotes in Revelation 13.

You can list all the doubts you want on what may be, and what most likely might be, etc… The real trouble is that you may well be missing the Kingdom of God now.

One can realize the Kingdom now, live in it now and learn about God’s prophecy at the same time.

The references in Revelation clearly leave the understanding that these events are now way past tense.

I don’t think so. Unsaved Israel and the land, which are central with the Messiah Jesus in prophecy, are too marginalized in these footnotes. And yes, I know all people of the earth are God’s focus.

Peace in Christ.

 

[climer97007]

This includes the full restoration of Israel out of all nations. Like Jeremiah 23:7-8 states. Unsaved Israel and the land, which are central with the Messianic Jesus in prophecy, are too marginalized in these footnotes. And yes, I know all people of the earth are God’s focus. Peace in Christ.

Too many people are soooo concerned about the details that they fail to see the obvious. Christ is already in our midst. Christ is already Priest, Prophet and King. There is no 2nd Coming where Jesus is going to be re-installed as a human political King in Israel.

Judas already made that error, and countless non-Catholics are running down the same bloody path behind Barrabas and the military rebellion minded Jews, still failing to fully acknowledge Jesus’s presence among us now, still anxiously looking to annoint a new political King in Israel.

Jesus is here with us now. Jesus was not going to be a political King 2,000 years ago, and he is not going to do that in the future. The reign of God, the Kingdom of God, is Now! The 2nd Coming of Jesus is real, and true, just not the way you have imagined it, not in the image and likeness of Judas or Barabas. This is a huge mistake, and one which will cost the deceived world dearly.

Israel was destroyed as a nation in AD72 or so. Christianity is the new Kingdom of Israel, the restoration of the relationship between God and his people. So, when you see the Jews, such as Peter, Matthew, John, James, Paul, etc…, becoming Christians, you are seeing the Kingship of Christ over the Jews, over all those who would accept Him as King.

You are seeing Jews who have become restored to the fullness of the Kingdom of God, both then, and now, already, and it has been happening just like this ever since the Apostles first conversion. In every generation, the Jew is given the chance to convert to Catholicism.

Gene

 

[Garland]

climer97007, your post #127, right on. AMEN AMEN AMEN. Thank you . Blessings Garland

 

[Lev23]

Too many people are soooo concerned about the details that they fail to see the obvious. Christ is already in our midst. Christ is already Priest, Prophet and King.

Talk for yourself who is failing to see the obvious or not. So we can move on from such remarks, all fulfillment of prophecy will be by Jesus Christ.

There is no 2nd Coming where Jesus is going to be re-installed as a human political King in Israel.

The Father will let His Son in His glory reign on this restored earth. All will know who the true God is. Animals will not prey on one another, and mans choice not to to worship Him in Jerusalem will be met with discipline(Zech 14). Prophecy of scripture speaks of these things. St.Peter even said we should pay attention to the prophecy of scripture. St.Paul says Jesus will turn the Kingdom over to the Father, then there will be the end of this earth and then the New Earth and Heavens will be made.

Judas already made that error, and countless non-Catholics are running down the same bloody path behind Barrabas and the military rebellion minded Jews, still failing to fully acknowledge Jesus’s presence among us now, still anxiously looking to annoint a new political King in Israel.

Jesus is here with us now. Jesus was not going to be a political King 2,000 years ago, and he is not going to do that in the future. The reign of God, the Kingdom of God, is Now! The 2nd Coming of Jesus is real, and true, just not the way you have imagined it, not in the image and likeness of Judas or Barabas. This is a huge mistake, and one which will cost the deceived world dearly.

Israel was destroyed as a nation in AD72 or so. Christianity is the new Kingdom of Israel, the restoration of the relationship between God and his people. So, when you see the Jews, such as Peter, Matthew, John, James, Paul, etc…, becoming Christians, you are seeing the Kingship of Christ over the Jews, over all those who would accept Him as King.

You are seeing Jews who have become restored to the fullness of the Kingdom of God, both then, and now, already, and it has been happening just like this ever since the Apostles first conversion. In every generation, the Jew is given the chance to convert to Catholicism.

Gene

Where did you get non-catholics are following the same bloody error-filled way as Judas?

When Christ comes back, He will be the one to stop the Anti-Christ who decieived all the nations, including unsaved Israel. But there will be those in Israel who will see Jesus as the one who they pierced, and will mourn for Him like an only Son. He will cleanse them of their sins. Just like when Joeseph, in His mercy and love, revealed his identity to his separated brothers.

I know Israel was judged and expelled from the land, and they can never be reconciled to God again unless it is by His Son, but God still loves them and remembers them as His people, and prophecy speaks of the eventual return of Israel to be ultimately rescued and saved by Jesus Christ.

Prophecy speaks of them returning to the land in unbelief(Ezek 36).

Do not boast over the broken branches or be ignorant of the mystery that there is a day coming when all godlessness will be taken from Jacob when the deliverer comes from Zion.

Until then, it is far better to come to Jesus Christ now. If a Jew takes the chance now to wait and see the Messiah as the Lion of the Tribe of Judah before believing His true identity now as the sacrificial Lamb of God, they will have to survive some tough times ahead.

The Gospel is to the Jew first, then the Gentile.

 

[momor]

Today this same tragedy is being worked out in the middle east, through the USA’s relationship with Israel. There are many Christian sects including evangelicals, pentecostals, baptists, and others, and even a few confused Catholics, who are being used behind the closed doors of Free Masonry to carry out the biggest deception in all of human history, namely that event in history which will occur when the last and greatest Tribulation of all times is ushered in.

I am here speaking of the last and greatest of anti-Christs. Not just a guy like Hitler, a Catholic, who can be seen as a modern model of this future anti-Christ, though the last one will be even worse. This is the guy who fallen Christendom will unite under as the 2nd coming of Christ, though he will actually be the anti-Christ. This is the Tribulation that we all need to start praying against and preparing for.

Gene

You are hinting at something here that I don’t understand. What is going on with the Masons and what is the event you refer to?
Thanks.