The Trillion Dollar Gorilla

[ASimpleSinner]

There are so many more important issues in the world than this one.

The world will not end because gay people get married.

Do we just then debate the issues you think are important?

 

[joe_clark]

Church marriage is a religious ceremony. Threatening to strip tax-exempt status in order to force religious practice to change, I think, would be a violation of Separation of Church and State and thus unconstitutional.

I work in the legal circle and took a look at this as a possibility. This is not legal advice only an opinion. I believe you are correct and no church would lose tax exempt status if they refused to marry anyone because:

A: As you stated, church marriage is a religious ceremony, technically the people are married in the eyes of the law once they recieve the marriage certificate. Threatening to sue for religious blessing is far fetched.

I believe there are some who like to stir the pot and in doing so stir the people up, in an untransparent way.

 

[Biggie]

I work in the legal circle and took a look at this as a possibility. This is not legal advice only an opinion. I believe you are correct and no church would lose tax exempt status if they refused to marry anyone because:

A: As you stated, church marriage is a religious ceremony, technically the people are married in the eyes of the law once they recieve the marriage certificate. Threatening to sue for religious blessing is far fetched.

I believe there are some who like to stir the pot and in doing so stir the people up, in an untransparent way.

Very confident appraisal. I hope you are correct. I have seldom met two people “in the legal field” who agree and think it’s possible that’s why courts exist. I think the arguments to bring the matter to court would be as plain as the spectacles on your face. Let’s hope in that event yours is the majority and not the minority opinion. Hate to see all that confidence go for naught.

Oh, and no one is talking tort law leading up to your opinion. The discussion is on the withdrawal of tax exemption which is initiated by the IRS in response to discrimination allegations

 

[Glorfindel]

There are so many more important issues in the world than this one.

The world will not end because gay people get married.

Well, you have NOT looked at Scripture, Matrimony says that the two (male/female) shall become one flesh. I am sorry, if you are willing to overlook this abomination in such a “cool” manner, I am afraid to find what it WOULD take to get your lofty attention. Pax.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Is the government really prepared to take away our tax exempt status. Can you imagine what would happen in American politics if that happened?

Priests would be able to name politicians that were totally against Catholic teaching…and tell people who it is a mortal sin to vote for…and the government couldn’t say one thing to silence us. The Church in America could get much more involved in political and social issues without the fear of losing our tax exempt status…which I do not believe is more important that saving souls by speaking truth.

I think it will be a good thing for the Church in America. And the Catholics in this country will just have to dig deeper into our pockets to prove what means the MOST to us.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

So how long has the Federal government been demanding that the Church allowed divorced people to marry?

The Federal government has no jurisdiction to this day over who the Church marries. If people married in the Church divorce, they are not allowed to remarry without recieving an annullment. This is still true today.

 

[Biggie]

The Federal government has no jurisdiction to this day over who the Church marries. If people married in the Church divorce, they are not allowed to remarry without recieving an annullment. This is still true today.

Let’s try it this way. What if Catholic Church ushers refused to allow blacks into the church?

Or how about if a restaurant hung a sign that read “English speakers only.”

Or an apartment owner who would not rent to a homosexual?

Think there might be a problem there?

Now how about a Church that says we will marry every parishioner - unless they’re homosexuals. Hmmmm… I wonder if something might come of that?

I mean you can’t be that naive.

 

[Dale_M]

Let’s try it this way. What if Catholic Church ushers refused to allow blacks into the church?

There is nothing in Catholic theology to support such a religious practice.

Or how about if a restaurant hung a sign that read “English speakers only.”

Not a religious practice.

Or an apartment owner who would not rent to a homosexual?

Perhaps the apartment owner has certain religious values, but this doesn’t affect religious practice.

Now how about a Church that says we will marry every parishioner - unless they’re homosexuals. Hmmmm… I wonder if something might come of that?

I seriously doubt it.

I mean you can’t be that naive.

Hey, there is no need to be condescending. You are entitled to your opinions, but if they can’t stand the test of reason, you shouldn’'t resort to insults.

 

[Jesus_N_Cherie]

Let’s try it this way. What if Catholic Church ushers refused to allow blacks into the church?

Or how about if a restaurant hung a sign that read “English speakers only.”

Or an apartment owner who would not rent to a homosexual?

Think there might be a problem there?

Now how about a Church that says we will marry every parishioner - unless they’re homosexuals. Hmmmm… I wonder if something might come of that?

I mean you can’t be that naive.

No, I would agree with everything you have said. We are certainly coming into a time of major persecution if the signs are to be believed…and I believe the signs.

 

[Biggie]

There is nothing in Catholic theology to support such a religious practice.

Not a religious practice.

Perhaps the apartment owner has certain religious values, but this doesn’t affect religious practice.

I seriously doubt it.

Hey, there is no need to be condescending. You are entitled to your opinions, but if they can’t stand the test of reason, you shouldn’'t resort to insults.

Sorry, if that were condescending it wasn’t in response to you but I think you’re not even close to correct for the reasons previously stated.

You have breezed by the fact that the discussion is re. tax exemption, that a church has already had its tax exemption pulled, that the tax exemption is strictly a legislative grant, not a right, and the removal is initiated by the IRS for a violation of rules. The legislature tomorrow could end the tax exemption for all churches if it wished to. It’s not protected by anything in the Constitution.

I think the reasoning is pretty cut and dried, but maybe I’m missing something basic. So far, your counter that removal of the tax exemption is a red herring is based on your erroneous belief that somehow the fact the issue involves religion or marriage somehow innoculates the Church.

I don’ t think so and apparently neither do others dealing with the issue, probably for the reasons stated above.

 

[ainjell]

1. In England, I think, they already deny tax exemption to church affiliated adoption agencies that refuse to place children with homosexual couples.
2. So, it is probably coming here. So be it.’
   Pay the taxes. Freedom from state control is cheap at that price.
3. Persecution, (and that is what injustice is) has always vitalized the church.
4. Maybe Church goers will see the steeper need and dig a little deeper indeed.
5. I think giving to charity or church because it is tax deductible is a poor reason.
6. Part of me feels angry and wants to take revenge and tell the government, "OK, without tax exemption we cannot afford to opperate our schools, colleges, hospitals, social services, adoption agencies. We will close them all and you can handle it. Good luck. Or maybe you could come up with a bailout plan for us.