The Trinity refuted by Christ Himself

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From a muslim site:

Islam is based on monotheism. Tawhid, the oneness of Allah, is an essential belief for all Muslims. Islam teaches that Allah, the one god, has 99 attributes. Although we can understand some of His attributes, His essence cannot be comprehended by a human’s limited mental capacity.

So muslims CANNOT COMPREHEND THE ESSENCE OF ALLAH coz allah did not reveal it. God did. We understand his essence though not fully coz after all, He is God 🙂
 
lets summarize : God is one ( we all agree on this), but one what? one person, one group of persons, one power? islam does not go beyong the fact that allah is One…Christianity went beyond that due to Jesus’ words and teachings; God is One, but his essence is Trinity.
 
Mr. inJesus,
In response to my saying:

while Jesus “can do nothing of his own” because Jesus is a prophet only “a man approved of God, with signs and miracles, which God did through him”

You asked:
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inJESUS:
whose interpretation is this?
Mr. inJesus,
It appears to me that you don’t read your own Bible properly.

As per Acts 2 (New Testament), when the days of the Pentecost were accomplished and the multitude of Jews came together in Jerusalem , and were confounded in mind, because that every man heard them speak in his “own tongue” probably either they were drunk or gone mad. And they were all astonished, and wondered, saying one to another: What means this? But others mocking, said: These men are full of new wine. But Peter standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke to them:

**Ye men of Judea, and all you that dwell in Jerusalem, be this known to you, and with your ears receive my words.For these are not drunk, as you suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day: **

Then later he says:

**Ye men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you, by miracles, and wonders, and signs, which God did by him, in the midst of you, as you also know: **
drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=2&l=22&f=s#x ]

It simply means people knew that all *miracles, wonders and signs * were actually DONE BY GOD and Jesus was A MAN only, APPROVED OF GOD, according to Peter.
“A man approved of God”
simply means a Prophet/Messenger of God just like Prophet Moses or Prophet Abraham (pbut).

And:

**Jesus himself gave testimony that a prophet hath no honour in his own country. **
drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=4&l=44&f=s#x ]

And:

Jesus therefore said to them: When you shall have lifted up the Son of man, then shall you know, that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father hath taught me, these things I speak:
drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=50&ch=8&l=28&f=s#x ]
 
Bro, this incident first refutes any muslim claim that the comforter is mohammad coz Jesus in this incident and after his resurrection gave the disciples the Holy Spirit, the Comforter 😉

yes surely Jesus himself said that he does the will of his Father who sent him coz after all, thats the Trinity 🙂 the persons of the One God work in complete harmony…One reason Jesus performed miracles was to support His claim to be the Son of God. The apostle John wrote, “Truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name” (John 20:30-31).

However, Jesus taught his disciples to perform miracles in JESUS’ NAME. 😉 Jesus as well forgave sins on his own authority.

to make a long story short, Jesus is not one quotation; Jesus is everything he said and did.
 
  • “And these signs will accompany those who believe: **in my name ** they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” (Mr.16:17-18).
    • "The seventy-two returned with joy and said, “Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name.” He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.” (Lk.10:17-19).
  • Paul delivered a slave girl who had a divining spirit: “… But Paul was annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I charge you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour." (Act.16:16:24).
Praise and Glory to you Lord Jesus…you deserve much more than we are able to !!
 
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inJESUS:
to make a long story short, Jesus is not one quotation; Jesus is everything he said and did.
But unfortunately, what is recorded in New Testament is **not completely reliable ** as you know it’s text has interpolations (later additions and omissions) alongwith contradictions, inconsistencies and improbabilities etc. The truth is mixed with falsehood. Most authors of the books of New Testament are still unkown to the experts of your Bible, let alone ordinary Christians. You have no idea who you are actually following. Thats why your Catholic Church came up with a “solution” that Bible does not really contain full deposits of your Christian faith and you as a Catholic is required to follow additional Papacy/Magesterium’s dogmas/views.
 
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Justice2006:
But unfortunately, what is recorded in New Testament is **not completely reliable ** as you know it’s text has interpolations (later additions and omissions) alongwith contradictions, inconsistencies and improbabilities etc. The truth is mixed with falsehood. Most authors of the books of New Testament are still unkown to the experts of your Bible, let alone ordinary Christians. You have no idea who you are actually following. Thats why your Catholic Church came up with a “solution” that Bible does not really contain full deposits of your Christian faith and you as a Catholic is required to follow additional Papacy/Magesterium’s dogmas/views.
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

sure bro sure, whenever you want the Bible is good and whenever you are refuted the Bible is corrupt 😉

Bro, what are you doing on this site? 🙂 the Bible tells you clearly who Jesus is and what is the difference between Jesus and any other “prophet”…bro, Jesus asked his apostles personally: who do you think i am? and Jesus is knocking at your door as he said, waiting for you to open the door for him to ask you : Justice, who do you think I Am?
Bro, Jesus is here…the Bible is here…take it or leave it…for Jesus said : who is not with me is against me.
 
Mr. inJesus,

Would you please qoute 1 John 5:7 from your Catholic Douay Rheims Latin Vulgate Bible first?

And then compare this same verse 1 John 5:7 in your another Catholic Bible–The New American Bible ?

For your convinience I will give you the links for the Douay Rheims and the New American Bible.

Douay Rheims Bible: drbo.org/

New American Bible nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/

Please hurry up, I can’t wait to see!!

*P.S: Don’t get confused with Gospel of John and 1 John (First Epistle of John). *
 
The infirm man answered him: Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pond. For whilst I am coming, another goeth down before me

The sick man answered him, “Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; while I am on my way, someone else gets down there before me.”

your point ?
 
Mr. inJesus,

I asked you to qoute 1 John 5:7 from the

Douay Rheims Bible: drbo.org/ and the New American Bible nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/

P.S: 1 John 5:7 = First Epistle of Saint John.

You qouted verse 7 of chapter 5 of Gospel according to Saint John.

.
 
Here it is :

7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one. 8 And there are three that give testimony on earth: the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three are one.

The Spirit is the one that testifies, and the Spirit is truth.
7
So there are three that testify,
8
the Spirit, the water, and the blood, and the three are of one accord.

your point?
 
it’s late here…i’ll check out what you have to say tomorrow God willing…still waiting for your answers on the other thread 🙂

Jesus’ love and blessings to all .Nighty
 
Mr inJesus,

I repeat my question:
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Justice2006:
Mr. inJesus,

I asked you to qoute 1 John 5:7 from the

Douay Rheims Bible: drbo.org/ and the New American Bible nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/

P.S: 1 John 5:7 = First Epistle of Saint John.
I did not ask you to qoute verse 8.

Please qoute just 1 John 5:7 only and also show me which one is from DR Bible and which one is from NAB.

Again I am looking for verse 7 of Chapter 5 of First Epistle of Saint John (1 John 5:7) only.

.
 
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Justice2006:
But unfortunately, what is recorded in New Testament is **not completely reliable **as you know it’s text has interpolations (later additions and omissions) alongwith contradictions, inconsistencies and improbabilities etc. The truth is mixed with falsehood. Most authors of the books of New Testament are still unkown to the experts of your Bible, let alone ordinary Christians. You have no idea who you are actually following. Thats why your Catholic Church came up with a “solution” that Bible does not really contain full deposits of your Christian faith and you as a Catholic is required to follow additional Papacy/Magesterium’s dogmas/views.
And the authors of the Koran are infallible? Let’s talk. Strictly on a secular level. I’m an anthropologist by training. No theology only history and anthropology! I do have a a good understanding of what went on with Jerome and the Christian Bible. En garde my friend! Let us discuss history but let us leave theology out of it.
 
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brotherhrolf:
And the authors of the Koran are infallible? Let’s talk. Strictly on a secular level. I’m an anthropologist by training. No theology only history and anthropology! I do have a a good understanding of what went on with Jerome and the Christian Bible. En garde my friend! Let us discuss history but let us leave theology out of it.
LOL

Mr. brotherhrolf,

Just in case of you have forgot…the topic of ths thread is ***The Trinity refuted by Christ Himself * ** to discuss the Catholic dogma of Trinity from their scriptures pointview.

To discuss otherwise, open a new thread and invite people to enlighten you.

Correction: As far the Koran, it is the Word of God revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in almost 23 years during his Prophethood and was written down right away by Prophet’s scribes in his life time and memorised as well word by word in Arabic original langauge, by the millions of Muslims since then.

Now, get back to the topic of this thread.

.
 
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Justice2006:
But unfortunately, what is recorded in New Testament is **not completely reliable **as you know it’s text has interpolations (later additions and omissions) alongwith contradictions, inconsistencies and improbabilities etc. The truth is mixed with falsehood. Most authors of the books of New Testament are still unkown to the experts of your Bible, let alone ordinary Christians. You have no idea who you are actually following. Thats why your Catholic Church came up with a “solution” that Bible does not really contain full deposits of your Christian faith and you as a Catholic is required to follow additional Papacy/Magesterium’s dogmas/views.
:wave:Justice,
The New Testament is God’s inspired word. Different translations of the Bible may be better than others, but that does not make the New Testament unreliable, it just means the reader needs to be better educated to understand the limitations of each Bible and how it was translated.

here is a good article on this on Catholic Answers.

But you seem to be trying to show the inaccuracy of the Bible, when all you are doing is showing the difference in tranlations of the Bible. I hope you read the article. If you are not just comparing different tranlations and inaccurately using that as “proof” of the Bible’s inaccuracies, I guess you need to explain more fully.

God Bless,
Maria
 
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Justice2006:
In John 20:17 we read:
“Jesus saith unto her, …I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your.”
This post-resurrection incident is recounted in the Gospel of John.
This is the same John who begins his Gospel this way:
In the beginning was the Word
And the Word was with God
And the Word was God.
Are we to believe that John does not understand the import of the post-resurrection incident that he reports? Was he so misled that he can begin his gospel by calling Jesus the Word, and stating that from the beginning, the Word was God?

I don’t know of any Christian who would have a problem with Jesus telling Mary Magdalen, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father, Rather, go to my brothers and tell them: ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

Certainly Jesus, in his human nature, can refer to the Father as ‘my God and your God.’ You are creating a problem where none exists.

Jesus has both a human and a divine nature. He can speak and act from his human nature and his divine nature.

Also, in a later post you state that in your opinion the New Testament is not completely reliable. So why do you try to use this allegedly unreliable book to try to prove your own point about the Trinity?
 
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JimG:
Also, in a later post you state that in your opinion the New Testament is not completely reliable. So why do you try to use this allegedly unreliable book to try to prove your own point about the Trinity?
Mr. JumG,

Let me clear some points at the outset.

The whole Bible is not completely reliable because:
  1. The existing so-called “original” ancient and *most ancient * manuscripts of the OT and NT are corrupted translations/explanations/revisions of ORIGINAL REVELATIONS given to the previous Prophets of God. And these are in Hebrew/Greek.
  2. The Judeo-Christian ORIGINAL REVELATIONS were either DESTROYED or LOST and not yet discovered. Thus there is no way to confirm the authenticity of existing so-called “original” ancient and most ancient manuscripts of the OT and NT
  3. The internal evidence of existing so-called “original” ancient and most ancient manuscripts of the OT and NT shows that these carry contradictions, inconsistencies, improbabilities etc. Thus to say that each and every thing of these existing so-called “originals” are completely reliable and inspired Word of God, is a false claim.
  4. Then when we look at the various translations of these existing so-called “original” ancient and most ancient manuscripts of the OT and NT, into other languages such as English, the unreliablity gets worst due to the translators’ weankess and deliberate mistranslations of **already unreliable ** texts of existing so-called “original” ancient and most ancient manuscripts of the OT and NT.
So when Muslims criticise the Holy Bible, they are not criticising the Word of God because the pure form of previous Revelations are either lost or destroyed.

Muslim’s objection is towards:

those numerous versions which Jews and Christians have in their hands in the name of Holy Bibles

and

towards which the text of so-called “original” ancient and most ancient manuscripts of the OT and NT.

Most authors of these manuscripts are STILL unknown to the Biblical experts.

Thus you don’t know basically whose path and instructions and teachings you are actually following. Neither those existing so-called “original” ancient and most ancient manuscripts of the OT and NT are Word of God per se nor their various further translations are Word of God per se.

This ofcourse does not mean that from A to Z of all these books is unreliable. But when Muslims use certain verses/pasages of the Bible, it is only to show or figure out what could be the truth because truth is certainly lost in the myth of Unknown authors of the existing so-called “original” ancient and most ancient manuscripts of the OT and NT, as the ORIGINAL REVELATIONS are either destroyed or lost.

Lesson 17 of Catholic’s Catechism
Materials Used In Composing The Bible
1. What has become of the original copies of the Bible?
**They have been either destroyed or lost. **
  1. What were the causes of destruction or loss?
    **Many, particularly persecution and the fragility of the materials used, which did not withstand the ravages of time. **
  2. How was persecution a cause for the loss or destruction of the originals?
    **Sometimes the Christians themselves destroyed the original to prevent profanation at the hands of the pagan persecutors; some other times they were found and destroyed by the pagans. The persecution of Decius (Roman Emperor from 249 to 251) was particularly vicious in this regard. **
drbo.org/catechism.htm#lesson17 ]

.
 
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Justice2006:
Mr inJesus,

I repeat my question:

I did not ask you to qoute verse 8.

Please qoute just 1 John 5:7 only and also show me which one is from DR Bible and which one is from NAB.

Again I am looking for verse 7 of Chapter 5 of First Epistle of Saint John (1 John 5:7) only.

.
Salaam brother justice2006;
Would you mind if I help our friend inJESUS?

Douay-RheimsAnd there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one” [1JN 5:7]

NABSo there are three that testify,” [1JN 5:7]

Big difference! which one is correct?

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
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Justice2006:
Mr inJesus,

I repeat my question:

I did not ask you to qoute verse 8.

Please qoute just 1 John 5:7 only and also show me which one is from DR Bible and which one is from NAB.

Again I am looking for verse 7 of Chapter 5 of First Epistle of Saint John (1 John 5:7) only.

.
Salaam brother;
Here is what I got from the links you provided.

Douay-RheimsAnd there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one” [1JN 5:7]

NABSo there are three that testify,” [1JN 5:7]

Big difference! which one is correct?

Salaam.
Joseph.
 
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