And since when these same anti-Roman authorities adopted the true theology of Jesus? And why they persecuted the early “heretics”.
Excuse me? You obviously do not know your history at all. The Christians were persecuted for centuries under the secular Roman empire… Most of the early Christians died as Holy Martyrs. All of the Apostles did except John. Peter was crucified on an upside down cross. Paul, beheaded. Ignatius of Antioch (3rd successor to the See of Antioch in Syria) was thrown to the lions… on and on and on…
Good, I am glad that you were able to find the answer to your question through Google! Google is a great search tool.
The LDS Church is a restoration of God’s original church after the original one had apostatized. It is a restoration of the original church of Christ established 2000 years ago.
Agreed! Let’s pray.
My reading of Ignatius is different from yours.
I have nothing against calling Jesus God.
And you conveniently ignored the next verse, John 5:19, which establish His subordination:
Then why is it so different in teachings and doctrines and practices than anything in the early Christina church. Even today it is a religion of new a nd different things rather than a restoration of anything. Besides I can’t accept that God who loved the world so much as to be crucified for it then straightaway abandoned it for 1800 years. The Catholic church did not apostatize,. The LDS church is the invention of Joseph Smith Jr. who used it for his own purposes. Brigham Young then made it a theocratic state until the US government stopped him. It has over the years morphed into what you see now to try and appear more mainstream in an effort to attract converts. Don’t drink the kool-aid.
You mean like a subjective emotional experience based on wanting to believe?
I don’t know what you are talking about. This is totally irrelevant to the subject of the discussion. The subject of the discussion is the doctrine of the subordination of the Son to the Father as defined within the context of the Bible and traditional Christian theology, not the intricacies of the Trinity as taught in the Book of Mormon. I would rather you didn’t attempt to derail the discussion with irrelevance. Thank you.
yes archeology is revealing just like it revealed the OT we have is the same which proves the false prophet mohammad a great liar.
exactly , i did not expect a muslim to understand this…my fault:Mr. inJesus,
So every time when your Bible is proved to be a corrupted text, you start talking about the “miracles” of the great priests .
Now, how about hiring those great priests as medical doctors in all Hospitals in Christian “civilised” countries to treat medical/physical/“spiritual” diseases of atleast Christians, instead of wasting lot of money on medial research and paying and hiring Medical Doctors? The western “civilised” world can save a huge amount of money if they recruit/hire all those great priests that you are talking, as healers to perfrom “miracles”.
And how many times you went to any of thosegreat priests to get cured when you fell sick?
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but your stated perspective made it quite relevant. You know exactly what I am talking about. The biblical context along with ECF teachings tells us the only subordination is that which occurs due to the two natures. They are all clear that while 3 personages there is only one God. For space sake here is the link to the traditional Christian theology of three personages:
Yet you cannot ignore John 5:18 either like you and the Mormon Church (at least the LDS Utah faction) does. This comes together perfectly once you realize that Jesus was truly God and truly man, begotten of Holy Spirit and born of a woman, the Blessed Virgin Mary.
No. Christians gained influence in the Roman empire because of the work of of the underground Church of Rome spreading the Gospel message. Christians spreading the faith and preaching the Word of God and due to Constantine’s mother Saint Helena accepting Christianity. If you read the Church Fathers before Christianity was legalized that our theology has remained the same (at least the Catholic Church). If Christianity was paganized as you claim, then all Romans would have embraced Christianity right away, and would have had no problems with it. Yet you see people in the Roman Senate trying to bring back the Roman pantheon. The Roman empire did not accept Christianity overnight and for hundreds of years there were still persecutions of Christians.
Justice you missed my point. Yes there are miracles, but there are many priests who are doing work that doesn’t require miracles, but is still the work of God. Jesus performed many miracles, but he always emphasized that it was the removal of sins and evil which was the greatest. This is what I am talking about. What country are you from Justice, and are there any Catholics there? Back to the topic, the Trinity is a hard thing to understand, and the early Church would have gotten rid of it long ago if it wasn’t central to understanding our faith. We can’t understand the Trinity, but we can use it to understand Christianity, and Judaism. If Muhammad had not taken the easy way out and just said God is one (without the three in one part), Islam would believe in the trinity also. But to accept the Trinity is to accept Jesus as God, and that is the ultimate test. Muhammad could not accept this, among other things and formed his doctrines accordingly. Re-read the Bible, and this time read it without an agenda to bolster arguments against Jesus. You will find He is very different from a prophet. He was the Messiah the Jews hoped for, and the Old Testament predicts. He was the Word made flesh. That same Word was there with God when he formed the matter and water that you are composed of. The Word was God. (Read John 1)
This is true. It is a new (within the last few centuries) myth that Christianity was paganized by Constantine. Scholars that are Protestant, Catholic, and non-Christian agree this is not the case. The Fundamentalists, and the anti-Catholics use anti-intelectual propaganda to spread false messages like this, and pop-culture exploit these conspiracy theories (The De Vinci Code).
When you re-read your own various Bibles with the same advice of yours, you will find out that Jesus has nothing to do with your Catholic Church’s dogma of Trinity, no matter how old it is.
I am not ignoring John 5:18 at all, neither does the LDS Church. I am merely reading it within its context, which is verse 19. Why do you insist on ignoring that? Why do you ignore 50 other verses which could be quoted clearly manifesting His subordination, such as “My Father is greater than I”? Even John 5:18 by itself doesn’t support your argument. “Equal with God” is not the same thing as “identical with God”. If my boss elevated me to be “equal with him” in rank in his company, that does not mean that me and him have now become one and the same person. It is semantically a false deduction to make.
It doesn’t “come together” at all. I don’t dispute that Jesus was both God and man. But what has that got to do with His subordination to the Father? The rest of what you have quoted about the so called “hypostatic union” is first of all irrelevant to the issue. Secondly, it is a completely scriptural concept. The scriptures say nothing about “hypostatic union”. This is philosophy, not religion. And thirdly, it is also false. As I have already mentioned in my discussions with Neithan, passages from John make it perfectly clear that the type of union that exists between the Father and the Son will be exactly the same as the kind of union that will exist between Jesus and His disciples. That shoots down the “hypostatic union” stuff out of the sky.
Hello Justice,
No you do not get it
Justice believes that Jesus’ true message is lost and the Bible we have is the corruptness of humans 
…thats why he biggest cry is : hey, the Bible is all corrupt , to which one should wonder, is God not omnipotent enough to save it or maybe a discriminator that saves some books (quran) and other no? 