The Trinity

  • Thread starter Thread starter lilred5
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

lilred5

Guest
A good friend of mine is a UPCI Pentecostal (aka “jesus only”) and wants me to help her understand the concept of the trinity using the Bible, of course. I am totally helpless. I know of a few key verses such as Jesus’ baptism and in Genesis 1:26 - "Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us.”
But other than that I really don’t know how to go about explaining this to her. Btw, her father is a pastor so she is well versed in their beliefs. Help please.
 
lilred5 said:
A good friend of mine is a UPCI Pentecostal (aka “jesus only”) and wants me to help her understand the concept of the trinity using the Bible, of course. I am totally helpless. I know of a few key verses such as Jesus’ baptism and in Genesis 1:26 - "Then God said, “Let us make human beings in our image, to be like us.”
But other than that I really don’t know how to go about explaining this to her. Btw, her father is a pastor so she is well versed in their beliefs. Help please.
Click to expand...
Matthew 28;19 “Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the **Father **, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”
 
EphelDuath said:
Might I recommend ScriptureCatholic.com?
Click to expand...
Another good explanation of The Blessed Trinity is contained in a book titled: “Theology and Sanity” by Frank Sheed, published by Ignatius Press. It devotes more than 30 pages to The Trinity, and has a lot of other good stuff as well.

Once we understand something about the Inner Life of God, the Church`s teachings about the relationship between Christ and His Bride (the Church), and marriage and family life, make perfect sense.

We really have to go beyond The Bible…
Remember that our Lord said that the Spirit of Truth will lead us into all Truth. The Church`s understanding of the Deposit of Faith is still growing. So “Scripture Alone” is not good enough. We have the teaching authority of the Church, as well as Scripture.
 
According to this UPCI Pentecostal website, they believe that our Father in heaven is God, and that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God, and that they are one God. This is also good, orthodox Catholic belief so far.

But the Catholic Church says that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons; the UPCI says they are the same person.

Consider John 8:13-18 (New International Version)

[sup]13[/sup]The Pharisees challenged him, “Here you are, appearing as your own witness; your testimony is not valid.”

[sup]14[/sup]Jesus answered, “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going. But you have no idea where I come from or where I am going. [sup]15[/sup]You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. [sup]16[/sup]But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. [sup]17[/sup]In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. [sup]18[/sup]I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”

Jesus said that He is not alone, because He is with His Father. If they were the same person, then the presence of the Father would not make Him any less alone. Jesus said that His testimony and His Father’s testimony are two testimonies. But if they were the same person, that would be just one testimony.

Consider 1 John 5:7 (from the King James version of the Bible, the version the UPCI uses):
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
God is both a Trinity and a unity, as the Catholic Church teaches.

When Jesus was baptized, God the Father said “This is My beloved Son”. He did not say, “It is I Myself Whom you have just baptized”. The Father goes on to say “in whom I am well pleased”, which would sound narcissistic, if He were talking about Himself.

At the Last Supper, Jesus said “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever… the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” Jesus said that the Holy Ghost is “another Comforter”, not the same as Himself. Moreover, Jesus asks the Father to send the Holy Ghost, if they were all the same person, neither the asking nor the sending would make sense, our Lord would just do it Himself.

The persons of the Most Holy Trinity always act in perfect accord, but the Church has understood from her beginning that they are distinct persons. Here is an article on the subject from Catholic Answers.
 
John Souza’s Site Scripture Catholic is very good.

scripturecatholic.com/

The Holy Trinity is Dogma. It isnt an option to disbelieve it. Every Protestant sect contains a measure of error in it. Scripture Catholic was designed to meet them where they live - in Sola Scriptura.

Now as Catholics we know that the Deposit of Faith conatins both Scripture and TRADITION.

So the Word of GOD comes from both not Scripture alone. There were 12 Apostles but only 4 Gospels. Jesus never told his Apostles in Scripture to pass out Copies of Scripture. He told them to TEACH all nations whatsoever he commanded them and to Baptise them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.

Sola Scriptura is addressed there as well. If I were you , i would make him explain to you why he thinks that he is qualified to Teach in GOD’s Name without Faculties given only by Sacrament in Apostolic Orders that no Protestant can claim - why his version of Scripture was altered by MEN without the Lawful authority to do so (Which all Protestant Scripture has been) and since its the sole souce of Faith - why that fact doesnt concern him. And why they consider the fact that they can self interepret dispite what Scripture says to the contrary in St Peters Epistles. Or why Protestant Scripture is missing books. But do all these things in a charitable manner. After all - the goal is to get them to think about these points not to anger them. Plant the seeds and then pray for them. I know of a lady who married a Methodist. Her husband converted because he could not get past the Catholic Exegesis of John Chapter 6. The Bread of life. So ,
 
Thank you for your responses.
I know that one stumbling point is going to be the difference of nature/being/substance and person.
Would an easy way to explain this be that when referring to person one is referring to the “who” and when referring to nature/being/substance one is referring to the “what?” Now-a-days these words are used interchangably but in context of the Trinity it is a contrast of “who” (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and “what” (nature/being/substance being one in will, intent, purpose).
 
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirt is introduced through the Gospels of Jesus Christ, “Therefore go and and make disiples of all Nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit”.

The Holy Spirit is a referrence to both Jesus and God, Trinity comes from the Latin word meaning THREE.

Correct me if I am wrong. Initially I was taught the Holy Spirit or Holy Ghost gave mention to God and not Jesus. But upon much more reading and conversation I’m under the belief that it actually applies to both. God and Jesus.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top