The Trinity

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memnoch_lover

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Jesus reveals God in an unheard of sense. Jesus reveals Trinity that One God is Father Son and Holy Spirit.

THis is clear when Jesus proclaims " baptize them in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Notice that there is one NAME of the three persons.

What is this one NAME?

Jesus calls God as Father so what is the name of God?

God tells Moses " I AM WHO I AM the one called I AM is sending you. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is sending you, this is my name forvever." So the name of God called Father by Jesus is “I AM WHO I AM”

THe NAMe of the Father is thesame name of the Son and the Holy Spirit since Jesus reveals there is only one name for the three persons. Therefore , The name Father Son and HolySpirit is one and thesame " I AM WHO I AM".

I AM WHO I AM is the one God of Abraham…

Therefore there is only one God whose name is I AM WHO I AM, the Father , the Son and the HolySpirit.

Each person is God whole and entire yet they have one substance or essence… therefore how can you count three when you count one all are counted? to count further will only be redundant.
 
And that is why Eastern Catholics call things mysteries. We are not able to fully comprehend all these things.
 
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memnoch_lover:
…Jesus calls God as Father so what is the name of God?..

God tells Moses " I AM WHO I AM the one called I AM is sending you. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is sending you, this is my name forvever." So the name of God called Father by Jesus is “I AM WHO I AM” …

…I AM WHO I AM is the one God of Abraham…

Therefore there is only one God whose name is I AM WHO I AM…
John 8:42 “Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.”

John 8:50 "And I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth."

The Jews then said John 8:53 “Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?”
Code:
         John 8:54 "Jesus answered, **If I honor myself, my honor is nothing: it is my Father that honoreth me**; of whom ye say, that **he is your God**:".....

 John 8:58   "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily,  I say unto you, **Before Abraham was I AM**"

 John 8:59 "Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by."


  Jesus pbuh,  kept reminding the Jews that he's only a messenger of God and he can't do anything on his own, without God's will (God sent him, God honored him, God is the one to be glorified),   How can God be Jesus' Father,  and the Jews' Father too as in John8:42, IT'S BECAUSE THE WORD "FATHER" IS NOT USED IN THE LITERAL SENSE.  If Jesus and God (The Father) were one, Why can't Jesus do all these things on his own?  why the Father can and he can't?  IT'S BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ONE.    

 Jesus pbuh,  knew that the Jews where going to kill him, like they did to some of the prophets before him.   So he wanted to remind them that God who sent him is the same God who sent Abraham and Moses,  that he's coming with the same message from the same God,  this is why he said in John 8:58 "Verily, verily,  I say unto you,  Before Abraham was I AM" ,     "I AM" does not refer to Jesus pbuh he was refering to God.    (God tells Moses " I AM WHO I AM the one called I AM is sending you.)
(Qur’an 19:88-95)
Code:
    "And they say: "The Most Beneficent (Allâh) has begotten a son (or offspring or children) [as the Jews say: 'Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allâh, and the Christians say that He has begotten a son ['Iesa (Christ)], and the pagan Arabs say that He has begotten daughters (angels)]."   Indeed you have brought forth (said) a terrible evil thing.  Whereby the heavens are almost torn, and the earth is split asunder, and the mountains fall in ruins,  That they ascribe a son to the Most Beneficent (Allâh).  But it is not suitable for (the Majesty of) the Most Beneficent (Allâh) that He should beget a son (or offspring).  There is none in the heavens and the earth but comes unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh) as a slave.  Verily, He knows each one of them, and has counted them a full counting.  And everyone of them will come to Him alone on the Day of Resurrection (without any helper, or protector or defender)."
Peace
 
What is your authority to interpret scripture???

We are warned about private interpretations: “…There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.” 2Peter3:16

What you totally fail to understand is that Jesus established a church (Matthew 16:15-19). That church, the Catholic Church, is the only one who has authority to teach what the scriptures mean as well as the truth about Christ and what he taught (Matthew 28:16-20). Jesus himself taught Peter and the other disciples the meaning of scripture (Luke 24:27; Luke 24:44-49). The CHURCH is the pillar and bulwark of the truth (1Timothy3:15). The Church is God’s way of being sure the fullness of HIS truth is always available to us. Catholics are not “Bible alone” Christians.

To learn more about how the Church teaches God’s truth see the following:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s1c2a2.htm#85
 
It is, of course, from Jesus’ revelation of himself as recounted in the scriptures that we know of God as three persons.

The Father pours out his own self-knowing in the Person of the Son–the Word of the Father. As the gospel of John says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

And Jesus tells us of the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, Whom he will send to remind us of all that he taught.

But three Persons are not separate Beings–they are One Being, one nature, one God. Three persons.

Discussions of the Trinity in and of itself are complicated by consideration of the hypostatic union. The Person of the Son, while remaining God, taking upon himself fully a human nature.

Scripture fully supports the theology of the trinity and the hypostatic union. But discussions on this point with Muslims do not seem to be fruitful, because Islam does not really permit any consideration of the nature of God, even as His nature is revealed to us in the new testament.
 
We are the same; Allah (swt) revealed the Qur’an and its interpretation.
Code:
    “Then it is for Us (Allâh) to make it clear to you,”   (Qur’an 75:19)
But, at the same time, Allah (swt) keeps telling us in the Qur’an to think, to reflect, and to consider the verses of the Qur’an and the meanings.
Code:
 “Do they not then consider the Qur'ân carefully?...”  (Qur’an 4:82)

 “Do they not then think deeply in the Qur'ân…” (Qur’an 47:24)

 “..But none remember (will receive admonition) except men of understanding.”  (Qur’an 2:269)

“Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.”  (Qur’an 3:190)

 “Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you (O Muhammad) from your Lord is the truth be like him who is blind? But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed.”  (Qur’an 13:19)
The church on the other hand, is treating you like “sheep”, every number of years a new version of the Bible is out, and they say no it’s just a translation, in English there are at least 50 versions of the bible, and not just words or interpretations that are changing, it’s much more than that, words, verses, and even Books are being deleted and added to the Bible. “Text was inserted that better reflected the evolving beliefs of the Christian movement, Margin notes that someone had added to a copy of the Bible were incorporated into the text of subsequent copies”.

You’re saying “The Scripture fully supports the theology of trinity and the hypostatic union”; Then why is it so vague?, why there are verses in the Bible that contradict this theology?, Why is it so easy to explain from the bible itself that Jesus was just a man (a messenger from God), yet so hard and complicated to discuss the trinity?.

“The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was virtuous. They both used to eat food. Look how clear we make the verses (or signs) for them, and take another look how they are deluded away (from the truth)” (Qur’an 5:75)

Peace
 
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Edris:
We are the same; Allah (swt) revealed the Qur’an and its interpretation.

“Then it is for Us (Allâh) to make it clear to you,” (Qur’an 75:19)

But, at the same time, Allah (swt) keeps telling us in the Qur’an to think, to reflect, and to consider the verses of the Qur’an and the meanings.

“Do they not then consider the Qur’ân carefully?..” (Qur’an 4:82)

“Do they not then think deeply in the Qur’ân…” (Qur’an 47:24)

“…But none remember (will receive admonition) except men of understanding.” (Qur’an 2:269)

“Verily! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and in the alternation of night and day, there are indeed signs for men of understanding.” (Qur’an 3:190)

“Shall he then who knows that what has been revealed unto you (O Muhammad) from your Lord is the truth be like him who is blind? But it is only the men of understanding that pay heed.” (Qur’an 13:19)

The church on the other hand, is treating you like “sheep”, every number of years a new version of the Bible is out, and they say no it’s just a translation, in English there are at least 50 versions of the bible, and not just words or interpretations that are changing, it’s much more than that, words, verses, and even Books are being deleted and added to the Bible. “Text was inserted that better reflected the evolving beliefs of the Christian movement, Margin notes that someone had added to a copy of the Bible were incorporated into the text of subsequent copies”.

You’re saying “The Scripture fully supports the theology of trinity and the hypostatic union”; Then why is it so vague?, why there are verses in the Bible that contradict this theology?, Why is it so easy to explain from the bible itself that Jesus was just a man (a messenger from God), yet so hard and complicated to discuss the trinity?.

“The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was virtuous. They both used to eat food. Look how clear we make the verses (or signs) for them, and take another look how they are deluded away (from the truth)” (Qur’an 5:75)

Peace
Do Muslims believe that Jesus was born of a virgin and without an earthly father or not? If you do believe that he was, don’t you realize that makes him unique? That sets him apart from all mankind. Even your prophet Mohammed was born of ordinary human beings. Why was this exception made with Jesus? If he’s just a messenger as you say, why wasn’t he born like everybody else?

How do you explain that?
 
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Edris:
Code:
 Jesus pbuh,  knew that the Jews where going to kill him, like they did to some of the prophets before him.   So he wanted to remind them that God who sent him is the same God who sent Abraham and Moses,  that he's coming with the same message from the same God,  this is why he said in John 8:58 "Verily, verily,  I say unto you,  Before Abraham was I AM" ,     "I AM" does not refer to Jesus pbuh he was refering to God.    (God tells Moses " I AM WHO I AM the one called I AM is sending you.
Emmanuel means God among us, and the difference with the prophets before Jesus is, Jesus was killed and arose three days later, while the other prophets didn’t.
Code:
"I AM" does not refer to Jesus pbuh he was refering to God.    (God tells Moses " I AM WHO I AM the one called I AM is sending you.)
Where did you get the authority to teach this, is this your own interpretation ? Jesus said he that has seen Me has seen the Father, for I and the Father are One, please explain to me what Jesus is saying here.
And again I refer you back to the name Emmanuel ( God among us)
 
“She said: “How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?” He (Jibrael-Angel Gabriel) said: “So (it will be), your Lord said: ‘That is easy for Me (Allâh): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allâh), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allâh).’” (Qur’an 19:20-21)

Yes we believe that he was born miraculously of a virgin mother, and without a father earthly or heavenly. And Yes, that makes him “unique”, as Allah (swt) says it’s a sign to mankind. His birth was a miracle; Talking to people while he was still in the cradle was a miracle; healing the blind and the lepers, and raising the dead, all these miracles performed by Jesus pbuh (after Allah’s permission);

“(Remember) when Allâh will say (on the Day of Resurrection). "O 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam
(Mary)! Remember My Favor to you and to your mother when I supported you with RûhulQudus
[Jibrael (Gabriel)] so that you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and when I taught you writing, AlHikmah (the power of understanding), the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel); and when you made out of the clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My Permission, and you breathed into it, and it became a bird by My Permission, and you healed those born blind, and the lepers by My Permission, and when you brought forth the dead by My Permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from you (when they resolved to kill you) since you came unto them with clear proofs, and the disbelievers among them said: ‘This is nothing but evident magic.’ " (Qur’an 5:110)

Now, the question does this set him apart from all mankind?
Code:
 Allah created Prophet Adam (pbuh) without a father or a mother;   created Eve (a woman) from Adam (a man). Biologically speaking this is harder than creating a man from woman (without a man involved).   But all three are miracles.
“Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: “Be!” - and he was.” (Qur’an 3:59)

As for the miracles performed by Jesus pbuh, All the prophets performed miracles, so that the people will believe them. Prophet Moses pbuh split the sea in two; when he cast his stick it would turn into a snake; when he puts his hand into his left side it will come out white and shining without any disease (of course all these where done by Allah’s permission). Prophet Suleiman pbuh too, Allah (swt) subjected to him the wind it blew gently to his order whithersoever he willed; And Allah (swt) gave him power over devils from the Jinn, they worked for him as builders and divers (bringing him treasures from the sea); etc…
The prophets on their own can’t do anything. As Jesus pbuh says in the Bible (John 5:30)

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.” (John 5:30)

Why was this exception made with Jesus (to be born miraculously)?

I simply don’t know, why did God create Eve from Adam? Why did he create Adam from dust, why not use cement or iron?; Allah (swt) wanted the birth of Jesus pbuh to be a miracle, and that’s it. Why did Allah (swt) chose the miracles mentioned above for prophet Moses, why didn’t He give him different miracles?. We don’t know the wisdom behind it. And as Allah says in the Qur’an
Code:
    “And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little." (17:85)
Peace
 
Since we are discussing the trinity, perhaps a muslim would care to explain why allah thought the trinity consisted of Jesus, God, and Mary?
It is interesting to note that the charges against Christians of looking upon the Virgin Mary as the third person of the Trinity is made in the last of all the Suras:- O Jesus, Son of Mary, hast thou said unto mankind 'Take me and my mother as two Gods beside God? ’ He shall say: ‘Glory be unto Thee! it is not for me to say that which I know to be not the truth.’ Sura Al-Ma’idah (v) 116. Whether Muhammad knew better or not is uncertain, but, however that may be, this is his parting accusation. He could have ascertained the true facts of the case, for on Christian monuments found by Dr. B. Glaser in Yemen, the Sirwah inscription opens with the words, ‘In the power of the all-Merciful and His Messiah and the Holy Ghost.’ (Zwemer, Islam, p. 21.) To say the least, Muhammad here made a serious mistake, which it is difficult to reconcile with the verbal inspiration of the Qur’an. (The Historical Development Of The Qur’an, Edward Sell, 1869-1932, p 172)\
You can read the full article here
 
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JimG:
It is, of course, from Jesus’ revelation of himself as recounted in the scriptures that we know of God as three persons.

The Father pours out his own self-knowing in the Person of the Son–the Word of the Father. As the gospel of John says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

And Jesus tells us of the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, Whom he will send to remind us of all that he taught.

But three Persons are not separate Beings–they are One Being, one nature, one God. Three persons.

Discussions of the Trinity in and of itself are complicated by consideration of the hypostatic union. The Person of the Son, while remaining God, taking upon himself fully a human nature.

Scripture fully supports the theology of the trinity and the hypostatic union. But discussions on this point with Muslims do not seem to be fruitful, because Islam does not really permit any consideration of the nature of God, even as His nature is revealed to us in the new testament.
I have heard that when Jesus returns and everyone is judged that the Trinity will somehow become one person. “I will be with you until the end of time.”
 
**Is Mary regarded the third of the Holy Trinity, by the Quran? **
by Akbarally Meherally of www.mostmerciful.com

It is not an uncommon occurrence that during the dialogues with Christians, a Muslim may hear remarks such as the one mentioned here under:

Remark: Muhammad, the author of the Holy Qur’an, was mistaken into believing that Mary (the mother of Jesus), was the third Person of the Holy Trinity. Muhammad was not aware of the fact that the Holy Ghost is the third Person of the Holy Trinity and not Mary.

To substantiate the above misconception, the person making the remark would probably quote the following verse from the Holy Qur’an:
“And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, ‘Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?” He will say: “Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.” Holy Qur’an 5:116
Upon careful study of the above verse, which was revealed by Allah to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) through Allah’s angel Gabriel, and the scrutiny of the following observations, one discovers that Allah has spoken the Truth.

**The Observations… **
a) Carved or molten images (Statues) of Jesus Christ and his mother Mary, in various sizes and shapes, are to be found in the Catholic Churches, all around the world.

b) Most of these Sacred Statues are placed in the prominent places of the Prayer Halls of these Christian Churches for venerating and worshipping.

c) One would also notice that the majority of the attending congregates would kneel, worship, venerate and pray before these Holy Images as their reverent rituals. Many devoted believers would place lighted candles in front of these Sacred Statues, before paying their homage.

d) These Catholic congregates who venerate Lord Jesus as their God and Virgin Mary as the “Mother of God”, do form the bulk of the Christians community. It has been so since the inception of the Roman Catholic Church. The Protestants, who separated from the Roman Catholics, nearly ten centuries after the advent of Islam, do not have the Statues of Mother Mary in their Churches.

e) These observations clearly indicate that Virgin Mary has been venerated with hyperdulia, along with her son Jesus, by the majority of the Christians, from the early years of the Catholicism.

f) As for the Holy Ghost, the third person of the Holy Trinity, no Christian Church has so far instituted its venerating representation, image or semblance for their Churchgoers.

The Truth

The obvious conclusion is that for all practical purpose and in reality, when the issue is of Worshipping, Venerating, Deifying and/or Idolizing, it is Mary - the “Mother of God” and not the Holy Ghost has that kind of rank and status. Briefly, the historical figures of Jesus and Mary are venerated as Deities. The Holy Ghost is not venerated as a Deity.

The quoted verse from the Holy Qur’an questions such Divine Ranks and Status that have been assigned by the followers of Jesus to him and his mother. The verse does not speak of the Church developed enigmatic Doctrine of Trinity.

Theologically speaking, the concept of Holy Ghost as ‘Filioque’(“a double procession”) was added to the Original Doctrine much later. As taught by the Greek theologians and advocated by St. Augustine, it simply makes the Holy Ghost a “go-between” communications or things that proceed from the Father and is received by an individual via Jesus Christ. One may argue that since the Holy Ghost emanates from God the Father, it is also God. In reality, this would only be possible if there was a “total emanation” (100% transfer). If that be the case, then the Primary Source has either annihilated Himself (Itself) or has produced a Clone. God the Father still exists and Christians with their Trinitarian Beliefs yet claim God is One.

During his ministry, Jesus Christ had taught in very explicit language to worship the “Father in Heaven” (see Matthew 6:5-13). Jesus never ever taught his followers to make images of him and/or his mother and then venerate either of them. In this regards, the Protestants consider themselves a step ahead and reformed than their counterparts.

The quoted verse from the Holy Qur’an is a direct challenge to those who make the graven images of Jesus and Mother Mary. The Almighty God in the Second of the Ten Commandments also warns mankind against making of graven images and worshipping them. (See Exodus 20:4).
 
jcaz said:
**

The quoted verse from the Holy Qur’an is a direct challenge to those who make the graven images of Jesus and Mother Mary. The Almighty God in the Second of the Ten Commandments also warns mankind against making of graven images and worshipping them. (See Exodus 20:4).**

I was told it was the first commandment, “First I AM the Lord thy God thou shall not have strange gods before Me”

Also in Exodus----
Chapter 27
27:1 Thou shalt make also an altar of setim wood, which shall be five cubits long and as many broad, that is, foursquare, and three cubits high.

27:2 And there shall be horns at the four corners of the same: and thou shalt cover it with brass.

27:3 And thou shalt make for the uses thereof pans to receive the ashes, and tongs and fleshhooks, and firepans: all its vessels thou shalt make of brass.

27:4 And a grate of brass in manner of a net: at the four corners of which shall be four rings of brass,

27:5 Which thou shalt put under the hearth of the altar: and the grate shall be even to the midst of the altar.

27:6 Thou shalt make also two bars for the altar of setim wood, which thou shalt cover with plates of brass:

27:7 And thou shalt draw them through rings, and they shall be on both sides of the altar to carry it.

27:8 Thou shalt not make it solid, but empty and hollow in the inside, as it was shewn thee in the mount.

27:9 Thou shalt make also the court of the tabernacle, in the south side whereof southward there shall be hangings of fine twisted linen of a hundred cubits long for one side.

27:10 And twenty pillars with as many sockets of brass, the heads of which with their engraving of silver.

27:11 In like manner also on the north side there shall be hangings of a hundred cubits long, twenty pillars, and as many sockets of brass, and their heads with their engraving of silver.

27:12 But in the breadth of the court, that looketh to the west, there shall be hangings of fifty cubits, and ten pillars, and as many sockets.

27:13 In that breadth also of the court, which looketh to the east, there shall be fifty cubits.

27:14 In which there shall be for one side hangings of fifteen cubits, and three pillars and as many sockets.

27:15 And in the other side there shall be hangings of fifteen cubits, with three pillars and as many sockets.

27:16 And in the entrance of the court there shall be made a hanging of twenty cubits of violet and purple, and scarlet twice dyed, and fine twisted linen, with embroidered work: it shall have four pillars with as many sockets.

27:17 All the pillars of the court round about shall be garnished with plates of silver, silver heads and sockets of brass.

27:18 In length the court shall take up a hundred cubits, in breadth fifty, the height shall be of five cubits, and it shall be made of fine twisted linen, and shall have sockets of brass.

27:19 All the vessels of the tabernacle for all uses and ceremonies, and the pins both of it, and of the court, thou shalt make of brass.

27:20 Command the children of Israel that they bring thee the purest oil of the olives, and beaten with a pestle: that a lamp may burn always,

27:21 In the tabernacle of the testimony without the veil that hangs before the testimony. And Aaron and his sons shall order it, that it may give light before the Lord until the morning. It shall be a perpetual observance throughout their successions among the children of Israel.
 
Rebecca New:
I have heard that when Jesus returns and everyone is judged that the Trinity will somehow become one person. “I will be with you until the end of time.”
No, that is not the case. The trinity is the internal life of God, of which we would know nothing, had not Jesus revealed it to us. From all eternity, the Father utters the Word, (the Son) of one nature with the Father; and from all eternity, Father and Son’s mutual love is expressed as the Spirit. All of this occurs without the passage of time, so it is not a process. God in his nature of Trinity does not change.
 
It should be noted that the Apostles, following the birthday of the Church at Pentecost, did not preach the bible.

They preached Christ. Christ was their message. Had they wished, these men who knew him most intimately could have preached Christ as messenger, or as prophet. They did not. They preached Christ as Lord. That was their message, the message of the Church which Christ founded, and has remained the message for two thousand years.

In his first epistle, John writes: “This is what we proclaim to you: what was from the beginning, what we have heard, and what we have seen with our own eyes. . . . . This fellowship of ours is with the Father, and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
 
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JimG:
It should be noted that the Apostles, following the birthday of the Church at Pentecost, did not preach the bible.

They preached Christ. Christ was their message. Had they wished, **these men who knew him most intimately ** could have preached Christ as messenger, or as prophet. They did not. They preached Christ as Lord.
(Mark 14:50) “And they all forsook him and fled”
 
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mjdonnelly:
And that is why Eastern Catholics call things mysteries. We are not able to fully comprehend all these things.
Nor should we try that is why it is called “Faith”.

StMarkEofE
 
Edris,

Try reading the whole passage.

Mark 14:54 And Peter had followed him at a distance, right into the courtyard of the high priest; and he was sitting with the guards, and warming himself at the fire.

You need to understand that even though Jesus told the disciples what was going to happen, they didn’t understand at all. The Jews had expected a Messiah who would get them out from under Roman rule and establish a kingdom for them on earth where they would no longer be oppressed. When Jesus died on the cross, this was an incredibly defeated, confused, and terrified group of people. They were hiding because they were afraid for their own lives. They believed that Jesus was the Messiah, but when Jesus died, they were at a total loss as to why He hadn’t saved Himself. It wasn’t until Jesus rose from the dead that they finally understood. They were empowered with the Holy Spirit on Pentecost and this gave them the strength to endure the persecusion and martrydom that they would have to undergo for the Truth of the Gospel and the Church. That is why it is so ridiculous to think these guys made this stuff up. We see all too clearly in the bible that they were regular people with many faults and failings. They never, ever would have been willing to be crucified upside down, skinned alive, boiled in oil, etc., had Jesus not died AND resurrected.
 
Edris(Mary)!:
I simply don’t know
, why did God create Eve from Adam? Why did he create Adam from dust, why not use cement or iron?; Allah (swt) wanted the birth of Jesus pbuh to be a miracle, and that’s it. Why did Allah (swt) chose the miracles mentioned above for prophet Moses, why didn’t He give him different miracles?. We don’t know the wisdom behind it. And as Allah says in the Qur’an

“And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little." (17:85)

Peace

Why couldn’t you just give me a simple answer instead of that long dissertation. I did not ask about Adam, I asked about Jesus! You were just hedging. The problem isn’t only that you don’t know, you don’t want to know!
 
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