The True Disciple-need explanation

[2Bcatholic]

Can somebody explain this to me in simple terms–What did Our Lord mean by this?

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name? then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matt 7:21-23)

If one isn’t doing the will of God then how are they able to drive out demons, do mighty deeds and prophesy in His name? Wouldn’t this be a gift given by God so therefore it would be the will of God? Sorry, I’m confused!

Exactly what is the will of God?

 

[martreexcepteda]

what human hasnt heard about the lord basically everyone

 

[jprioli]

If one isn’t doing the will of God then how are they able to drive out demons, do mighty deeds and prophesy in His name? Wouldn’t this be a gift given by God so therefore it would be the will of God? Sorry, I’m confused!

This is a thought-experiment: Think of a priest who celebrates Mass, hears confessions and grants absolution, who baptizes and confirms. He anoints the sick. Is he doing mighty deeds? Yes, for that is what the Sacraments are. The priest preaches – perhaps he is an exceptional preacher, and his homilies and sermons have touched the lives of thousands. Perhaps many have returned to the life of grace because of the words of this priest. Has he prophesied in God’s name? Surely he has.
Now imagine that despite all of this, the priest (and I am only using this example hypothetically!!!) privately leads a thoroughly miserable life, (im)morally-speaking. Maybe he is having an adulterous affair. Maybe he is doing all sorts of bad things. Maybe he doesn’t even believe in what he is doing, but is going through motions because he doesn’t have another career path to follow.
And in spite of the priest’s personal unworthiness, for the sake of the people, God continues to allow this priest to function and allows many to come to salvation through his work.

Exactly what is the will of God?

In this case, I think Jesus is trying to say, make the outside match the inside; or the inside match the outside. Have integrity, and integrity founded upon and grounded in authentic love of God lived out in authentic love and service of neighbor.

Regards,
Joe

 

[bbentrup]

jprioli’s answer is great, but I would add two things I see in this admonition from our Lord. First, by saying this, God makes it clear that some people who may have treated salvation as a game will not have legitimate recourse to these salvific words (“Lord, lord”). In other words, some people may be tempted to live a life of immorality, knowing that they can just say, “Lord, Lord [have mercy on me]” and poof, when they die, they will be saved. From my understanding, some Protestant groups claim that once you accept Jesus as your personal lord and saviour, then you are automatically saved no matter what you do. Jesus warns them with this quote that the position is ridiculous.

Secondly, this quote teaches against hypocrisy. Some people may do lots of outwardly good things, however it is possible to derive absolutely zero benefit from them if their intentions were impure. If I help an elderly lady across the street, but my aim was to gain her confidence to cheat her later or to impress the cute girls who were watching me, then later trying to bring this up as a defense when my soul is at stake is proposterous - I would have already received my reward for this “good” action.

Jesus is not deriding sincere petitions for mercy. If you honestly seek Jesus at the last moment, like the good thief on the cross, then Jesus will not refuse you paradise.

 

[jprioli]

Not to found a mutual admiration society, but good additions.

Regards,
Joe

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The name of Jesus carreis authority. In the book of Acts, there were even non-believing Jewish exorcists employing the name of Jesus to cast out demons. Note: in the end, those exorcists got their butts kicked, “Paul, I know, but who are you?”

 

[2Bcatholic]

Please excuse my ignorance, I have trouble interpreting the Bible

Does this mean something entirely different than the first bible verse I asked about at the top of this thread because He says in this verse no one who performs a mighty deed in my name can at the same time speak ill of me and also that they will surely not lose their reward!

John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us is for us. Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.” (Mk. 9:38-41)

 

[Robbinson]

From my understanding, some Protestant groups claim that once you accept Jesus as your personal lord and saviour, then you are automatically saved no matter what you do. Jesus warns them with this quote that the position is ridiculous.

This is a potential interpretation (and as a Protestant, I have thought about that and worried about the implications of that interpretation). The other reading, subscribed to by many, if not most, Protestants, is that not all who say the believe in and accept Christ as savior are true believers (e.g., are not really saved). Those who are really in Christ will then strive to do good works by following Christ’s commandments - feeding the poor, etc. Those who are not will not.

There is a fine line between the viewpoints. The difference, I think, is that Catholics will go further and say its no only based upon works - following the beattitudes, but also performing the Sacraments.

In any event, its an important verse we need to pray about.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Cairone]

I think, looking at these two verses together, we have Jesus suggesting that your track record doesn’t matter. Instead, it is how you finish the race.

Just prior, Jesus says that a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Coupled with his next statement, that some who have born good fruit–prophesying, performing miraculous works, and son–would end up bearing bad fruit, this gives us a little insight into the importance of persevering to the end, lest we be disqualified (consider 1 Cor 9:27).

Even if now we are good trees bearing good fruit, we might become bad trees that bear bad fruit.

When you look at the passage from Mark, notice that Jesus makes a qualifier of “at the same time”. Jesus does not say that this rogue exorcist will never speak of ill of him, just that while he is exorcising in Jesus’ name, he is with Jesus’ cause.

But, you ask, what about verse 41? Doesn’t this give assurance of not losing eternal reward? Not necessarily. Jesus divides the world into two camps: the actively for Jesus and the actively against Jesus. There is no middle ground. What He is making clear in this passage is that there are other ways to be for Jesus other than directly, literally, following Him around like the apostles and a large number of other disciples. What Jesus is saying is that anyone who gives his disciples a cup of water to drink specifically because they are followers of Christ are in the camp of those who are for Him, even if that person is not directly following Him. Thus, being in the camp of those who are for Him, they are not in danger of losing their reward.

Taken together, these passages make a very strong case that we are not assured of Heaven, because even if we do great works in Jesus’ name at one point in time, we could possibly abandon camp later in life, join those who are against Him, and thus miss out on salvation.

 

[KingAlfred]

Can somebody explain this to me in simple terms–What did Our Lord mean by this?

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name? then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matt 7:21-23)

If one isn’t doing the will of God then how are they able to drive out demons, do mighty deeds and prophesy in His name? Wouldn’t this be a gift given by God so therefore it would be the will of God? Sorry, I’m confused!

Exactly what is the will of God?

My view is that the will of God is the requirement for us to imitate Christ, as best we can, 24-7. We have to start every day by reminding ourselves of the mandate to be Christ-like, in every detail of our lives, all the time. It’s the challenge of my life. Every thought and deed must be modeled on Christ. If you really try to do this, you’ll find it nearly impossible, thanks to our fallen nature. But just by trying, and never quitting, you’ll also feel better about realizing God’s will in the space and time of your short existence in this life.

 

[tito]

Matt 7:21-23 . All 3 descriptions relate to doings,activities, things people do for God, and these are not what God requires to enter heaven.
In the O.T. there was a false prophet that God used to prophesy in His name. The prophet’s name was Balaam and and sure most of us remember the account where his dokey talk to him as he was on his way to see the king of the amorites, Balak, who wanted the prophet to curse the children of Israel. Balaam did not curse them and prophesied truthfully for God but he was still a false prophet.

 In Acts 19: 14-16 is the account of the Jewish priest Sceva whose 7 sons exsorcized in the name of Jesus even though they were still in Judaism and not disciples (the demom in the account beat them up thoroughly!).
Many then and since then have done things in the name of the Lord who are not  believers. Albert Schwitzer comes to mind.
  The answer is given in John 6:40   "For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him on the last day".
  Therefore, the answer is not do, but trust, believe in Christ 's sacrifice on your (and every one else's too) behalf for your salvation, and you will be saved. Works will follow your faith.

  Why would God the son become incarnate and die miserably on the cross, if we could make in on our own? It took  Kingly blood to pay the debt for our sins! 

 Rejoice! And again I say rejoice!

 

[peary]

Can somebody explain this to me in simple terms–What did Our Lord mean by this?

"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name? then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matt 7:21-23)

If one isn’t doing the will of God then how are they able to drive out demons, do mighty deeds and prophesy in His name? Wouldn’t this be a gift given by God so therefore it would be the will of God? Sorry, I’m confused!

Exactly what is the will of God?

HUMILITY.

 

[Todd_Easton]

The accounts in the Gospels imply that Judas Iscariot cast out demons and healed the sick in Jesus’ name right along with the other Apostles yet he was an evil doer, a thief and betrayer, and presumably ended up in Hell.

The words of St. Paul come to mind:

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. (1 Corinthians 13:1-3)
As another poster said, I too think this is a call for perserverence to the end. It reminds me a little of Ezekiel 18:24:

24But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does the same abominable things that the wicked man does, shall he live? None of the righteous deeds which he has done shall be remembered; for the treachery of which he is guilty and the sin he has committed, he shall die.

 

[2Bcatholic]

John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.” Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. For whoever is not against us is for us. Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.” (Mk. 9:38-41)

Any thoughts?