The Truth About God

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I do understand the Divine Trinity.It is in Our Lord Jesus Christ.It is a Trinity of one Person, not three. Jehovah God did not divide Himself into three.Everyone has soul,body and spirit. In the Lord the Soul,Body and Spirit is the Father,Son and Holy Spirit.This is called a Trinity.The Lord’s Trinity is Divine, ours is human. God is one Person, just like we are one person.
They failed to read the Word correctly or they would had seen that it was Jehovah God who descended, born as a child,just like us,in order to be our Saviour and Redeemer. There were no son of God before creation, because there were no man alive to redeem.Who is He going to redeem? Did He redeem the Father or did the Father redeem Him? Why would Jehovah God share glory His with another by haven a second person with the same Divine Essence,equal to Him? There is no such thing as god from God.

I Jehovah will give thee for a covenant to the people, for a light of the nations. I am Jehovah, that is My name, and My glory will I not give to another (Isa.42:6, 8). Glory means Divinity.

God is one in Person and in Essence.Amen

Harry:)
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If God had entirely left heaven, in order to be Incarnated as Jesus Christ…

… then Who was Jesus talking to when He prayed to the Father?

… and why bother sending His Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended into Heaven, if there was no such Person?

You have to twist Scripture into pretzels to get to your position. Much simpler to take Christ’s word for it, and accept the mind-boggling concept of the Trinity, since He really does know better.

Because the simplistic interpretation you propose cuts the heart out of Jesus’s revelation of God’s nature.

Of course the Second Person of the Holy Trinity - the only Son of the Father - did not exist in human form before His Incarnation as Our Lord Jesus Christ… that’s why we celebrate Christmas… to honor, in utter amazement, the miraculous event of the Incarnation - our Lord and God, the Word of the Father, through Whom all things were created… entering into time and space. But the Son was always co-eternal with the Father.

Your question, “Why would Jehovah God share glory His with another by haven a second person with the same Divine Essence,equal to Him?” just does not take into account God’s real nature. How can God be jealous… of Himself?

God is Love, Harry… Love requires a relationship, which itself requires more than one Person. The Son came to earth to reveal the truth of the Divine Trinity: One God, Three Persons.

God bless,

Gryphon
 
Originally Posted by **SpiritualSon: **It is this one that is meant by, “In the beginning the Word was with God, and God was the Word.” “With God,” is in God, for wisdom is in love, and love in wisdom.This means there were no second person as the Word.
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Just so we are all on the same page—
What version of the Bible do you use?

NSRV-CE:
John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God;

Douay-Rheims:
John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

NAS:
John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Darby:
John 1:1-2
In [the] beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

KJV:
John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

All of the others I have seen have John 1:1-2 written the same way. They all clearly indicate that while the Word was God, He was also a distinct entity from God. It seems that the Bibles of the religions created in the 1800’s (e.g. Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Swedenborg Church) have deliberately twisted these verses to suit their own theology. There is a huge difference between “and the Word was God” and “And God was the Word.”
Have a great day,
Judy
 
Judy

KJV:
John 1:1-2
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

The same was in the beginning with God,means the same as this:and the Word was with God.

I have a Catholic Bible,and it saids,"He was in the beginning with God.I find that false,because the sayings of Jehovah God in the writings of the Prophets contradicts the son of God from eternity,before creation.

**I am Jehovah, and besides Me there is no Savior (Isa. 43:11). Am not I Jehovah, and there is none besides Me, and there is no Savior besides Me. Look unto Me and be ye saved all the ends of the earth (Isa.45:21, 22). **

**I am Jehovah thy God, and there is no Savior besides Me (Hos. 13:4). **

This one proves that Jehovah God the Father became Man,and Jesus Christ is Him.
**Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called God, Hero, the Father of eternity, upon the throne of David to establish and to found it in judgment and in justice, from henceforth and even to eternity (Isa. 9:6-7). **

And the Word was made flesh.

Harry
 
Saint Patrick bent down to pick up a little 3 leafed Shamrock to explain the Trinity to the Druids, they used to pray to the moon :whacky: 3 leaves one stem.
But have you ever asked yourself how could God remain in Heaven and still be on earth ?
When Jesus was on earth he prayed to the Father who was in Heaven, so obviously there had to be a second person.
But wait :hmmm: where is the third person, remember when the Holy Spirit decended on Jesus as a dove, and was heard from the Father, " This is my beloved son with whom I am well pleased"
So in this scene we have 3 different persons, Jesus on the ground, God the Father speaking, and the Holy Spirit represented as a dove. So there we have it, staring me in the face all the time.
I rest my case :amen:
 
… then Who was Jesus talking to when He prayed to the Father?

… and why bother sending His Holy Spirit after Jesus ascended into Heaven, if there was no such Person?

When the Lord was living in the world He had two states in Him.One was the state of humiliation and the other glorification.

** In the state of humiliation He underwent temptations.He prayed to the Father as to one who was other than Himself.**

**in the state of glorification He spoke with the Father as with Himself. In this latter state He said that the Father was in Him and He in the Father, and that the Father and He were one. **
**But in the state of humiliation He underwent temptations, and suffered the cross, and prayed to the Father not to forsake Him. For the Divine could not be tempted, much less could it suffer the cross. **

When the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of Truth, He shall testify of Me (John 15:26). The spirit of truth is the Word,and the Lord is the Word.
From the Father, means from the Lord’s Divine Love, that He taugh the Disciples from His Divine Love,and today He teaches Me. The Lord is the Holy Spirit teaching all who look to Him.

He breathed upon His disciples and said, Receive ye the Holy Spirit (John 20:22). The Holy Spirit is Him,because He breathed on the Disciples.
******Harry
 
The teachings of the Catholic Church are not based on the Bible. The Church teaches what the Apostles taught, which came from the lips of Jesus Christ. The Apostles were Jews. The Jews are big-time monotheists. The Apostles and the other Jews didn’t read the OT to literally mean separate beings when it said “let us make man in our image.” Yet some modern-day “experts” twist those Jewish scriptures to their own intrepretation and destruction (2 Peter 3:15-16).

The New Testament reflects the teaching of the Church, not vice versa. So if you want to argue that what the Church teaches is wrong, take it up with the Apostles.

The NT is not an instruction book in Christianity. It’s the record of the spiritual life of the Catholic Church – the New Israel (Gal 6:16) – during the first 100 years of her existence. It was written by the Church to the Church.

The Church did not come out of the Bible; rather, the Bible came out of the Church.

Ave Cor Mariae, Jay
 
“…the word Jehovah does not accurately respresent any form of the [Divine] Name ever used in Hebrew.”

Preface to the Revised Standard Version
**
(emphasis added)
 
http://newchurch.newearth.org/whatisnc.php

What is the New Church?

In a specific sense, this church is a community of people, also known as “Swedenborgians,” who embrace some new teachings given through the theological writings of Emanuel Swedenborg (1688-1772), recognizing these teachings as a gift from God and a key to a happy life both here and hereafter.
Our friend Harry has traded the teachings of Jesus Christ (he says he is a former Catholic) for the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg.

JMJ Jay
 
**
The same was in the beginning with God,means the same as this:and the Word was with God.
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**
I know that, thanks.

**
I have a Catholic Bible,and it saids,"He was in the beginning with God.I find that false.
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**(color changed by Judy)

Well, that’s not up to any individual to decide. That’s one of the things that Jesus left in the safe-keeping of the Church He created.

**
**I am Jehovah, and besides Me there is no Savior (Isa. 43:11). Am not I Jehovah, and there is none besides Me, and there is no Savior besides Me. Look unto Me and be ye saved all the ends of the earth (Isa.45:21, 22). **
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**

**I am Jehovah thy God, and there is no Savior besides Me (Hos. 13:4). **
You say you have a Catholic Bible, but obviously it is not the one you are fond of quoting from. My question was, specifically, which version of the Bible are you using. It helps us to know where exactly you are getting your words. Are you using a bible that was written specifically to affirm the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg? Just as the Jehovah’s Witnesses have rewritten the Bible to affirm the teachings of the Watchtower Society, so it seems your religion has done the same with your bible.

**
This one proves that Jehovah God the Father became Man,and Jesus Christ is Him.
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**
**Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called God, Hero, the Father of eternity, upon the throne of David to establish and to found it in judgment and in justice, from henceforth and even to eternity (Isa. 9:6-7). **
No, it proves that the 2nd aspect of the Holy Trinity became Incarnate. Jesus Christ is not God the Father; He is God the Son.
**
And the Word was made flesh.
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**

Yes, He was. The 2nd aspect of the Holy Trinity, the Word (Jesus Christ), was made flesh.

Have a great day,
Judy
 
Katholikos:
Our friend Harry has traded the teachings of Jesus Christ (he says he is a former Catholic) for the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg.
JMJ Jay
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Yes, unfortunately, it would seem so.

Judy
 
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juno24:
I know that, thanks.

Well, that’s not up to any individual to decide. That’s one of the things that Jesus left in the safe-keeping of the Church He created.

You say you have a Catholic Bible, but obviously it is not the one you are fond of quoting from. My question was, specifically, which version of the Bible are you using. It helps us to know where exactly you are getting your words. Are you using a bible that was written specifically to affirm the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg? Just as the Jehovah’s Witnesses have rewritten the Bible to affirm the teachings of the Watchtower Society, so it seems your religion has done the same with your bible.

No, it proves that the 2nd aspect of the Holy Trinity became Incarnate. Jesus Christ is not God the Father; He is God the Son.

Yes, He was. The 2nd aspect of the Holy Trinity, the Word (Jesus Christ), was made flesh.

Have a great day,
Judy
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Sorry but hold on, 😃 I don’t as yet wear glasses but would you mind if you increased the font size 👍
 
Just one other quick question, is it really plausible that the greatest minds of the last 2000 years in the Catholic Church would have just overlooked the Scriptures you quote, and somehow missed how they “obviously” contradict the ancient belief that God is a tri-une being? That doesn’t seem at all credulous to me.**The absurd, ridiculous and frivolous ideas which have arisen from the doctrine of three Divine persons from eternity, and which still arise in the mind of anyone who sticks to believing the wording of that doctrine, rising from the ears and eyes to the level of mental contemplation, are these. **
**God the Father sits overhead on high, with the Son at His right hand and the Holy Spirit in front of them listening, and rushing off on the instant through the world to hand out the gifts of justification according to the decision taken, inscribing these gifts and making their recipients sons of grace instead of sons of wrath, and elect instead of damned. **
****Can anyone fail to see that such ideas of God are the ravings of a deranged mind? Yet in Christian churches those are the holy things to be kissed with the lips, not inspected by any mental vision, because they are above the level of reason.If anyone were to lift them above the memory level to that of the understanding, they would drive him mad. ****
****But still this does not banish the idea of three Gods, but induces a foolish faith, which makes people think about God like someone dreaming in his sleep, walking in pitch darkness at night, or like a person blind from birth walking in daylight without anyone leading the way,or like a parrot speaking without understanding. ****
**

**
 
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SpiritualSon:
Just one other quick question, is it really plausible that the greatest minds of the last 2000 years in the Catholic Church would have just overlooked the Scriptures you quote, and somehow missed how they “obviously” contradict the ancient belief that God is a tri-une being? That doesn’t seem at all credulous to me.
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**The absurd, ridiculous and frivolous ideas which have arisen from the doctrine of three Divine persons from eternity, and which still arise in the mind of anyone who sticks to believing the wording of that doctrine, rising from the ears and eyes to the level of mental contemplation, are these. **

**God the Father sits overhead on high, with the Son at His right hand and the Holy Spirit in front of them listening, and rushing off on the instant through the world to hand out the gifts of justification according to the decision taken, inscribing these gifts and making their recipients sons of grace instead of sons of wrath, and elect instead of damned. **

****Can anyone fail to see that such ideas of God are the ravings of a deranged mind? Yet in Christian churches those are the holy things to be kissed with the lips, not inspected by any mental vision, because they are above the level of reason.If anyone were to lift them above the memory level to that of the understanding, they would drive him mad. ****
****But still this does not banish the idea of three Gods, but induces a foolish faith, which makes people think about God like someone dreaming in his sleep, walking in pitch darkness at night, or like a person blind from birth walking in daylight without anyone leading the way,or like a parrot speaking without understanding. ****
**

How do you explain what is I HOPE is in your BIBLE that I wrote above, or do you read the last posts ? hawkeye
 
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hawkeye:
Sorry but hold on, 😃 I don’t as yet wear glasses but would you mind if you increased the font size 👍
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It is HUGE on my screen!! Seriously. I tried to adjust it to make it look normal, but it is still huge. I’ll copy and paste it here to see if it comes up differently:
Quote:
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The same was in the beginning with God,means the same as this:and the Word was with God.

I know that, thanks.

**
Quote:**
I have a Catholic Bible,and it saids,"He was in the beginning with God.I find that false. (color changed by Judy)

Well, that’s not up to any individual to decide. That’s one of the things that Jesus left in the safe-keeping of the Church He created.

**
Quote:**

**I am Jehovah, and besides Me there is no Savior (Isa. 43:11). Am not I Jehovah, and there is none besides Me, and there is no Savior besides Me. Look unto Me and be ye saved all the ends of the earth (Isa.45:21, 22). **

**I am Jehovah thy God, and there is no Savior besides Me (Hos. 13:4). **

You say you have a Catholic Bible, but obviously it is not the one you are fond of quoting from. My question was, specifically, which version of the Bible are you using. It helps us to know where exactly you are getting your words. Are you using a bible that was written specifically to affirm the teachings of Emanuel Swedenborg? Just as the Jehovah’s Witnesses have rewritten the Bible to affirm the teachings of the Watchtower Society, so it seems your religion has done the same with your bible.

**
Quote:**

This one proves that Jehovah God the Father became Man,and Jesus Christ is Him.
**Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government shall be upon His shoulder, and His name shall be called God, Hero, the Father of eternity, upon the throne of David to establish and to found it in judgment and in justice, from henceforth and even to eternity (Isa. 9:6-7). **
No, it proves that the 2nd aspect of the Holy Trinity became Incarnate. Jesus Christ is not God the Father; He is God the Son.

**
Quote:**

And the Word was made flesh.

Yes, He was. The 2nd aspect of the Holy Trinity, the Word (Jesus Christ), was made flesh.

Have a great day,
Judy
 
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juno24:
It is HUGE on my screen!! Seriously. I tried to adjust it to make it look normal, but it is still huge. I’ll copy and paste it here to see if it comes up differently:
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Ok sorry hummm Houston we have a problem 😛
 
**From the trinity in every man, then, who can fail to perceive the trinity in the Lord? In every man there is soul, body, and spirit,is also in the Lord, “for in the Lord dwells all the fullness of Divinity bodily,” according to Paul (Col. 2:9).

Therefore in the Lord the Trinity is Divine, but in man it is human. In this mystical notion that there are three Divine persons and yet one God, and that this God, although one, is nevertheless not one person, everyone can see that reason has no part in it, but has been lulled to sleep, and still it compels the mouth to speak like a parrot.

When reason is put to sleep what is speech from the mouth but dead speech? When the mouth speaks that which reason turns away from and dissents from, is not speech foolish?

Harry

**
 
*"The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. *
*he Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. *
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
…
But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal."
Do you understand what you post? I don’t.
Who in the church, while reading the Athanasian Creed, is able to understand this? That it is of the Christian verity, that each Person by Himself is God, and yet that it is not lawful by the Catholic religion to account them three Gods? Is not religion thus to him something other than truth? and that in truth three Persons are three Gods, but that from religion they are one God?

**"Do you not know from the Word that the Father and the Son are one,as the Divine and Human in Jesus Christ, that the Father is in the Son, and the Son in the Father? This the Lord plainly says (in John 10:30, and 14:10, 11). If you do not believe this you divide God into two.When this is done you are unable to think about God otherwise than naturally, sensually, and even materially; and this has been done in the world since the time of the Council of Nice, which introduced the doctrine of three Divine persons from eternity, and thereby turned the church into a theater furnished with painted hangings, wherein the actors were representing new plays.

Harry
**
 
Again, you are approaching the mystery of Holy Trinity – the identity of God himself from your limited human perspective!

why call “Father” if He doesn’t have a “Son”, distinct and separate from Him? the name “Father”, “Son” only make sense in their relations to each other – each is distinct and separate!

The Athanasian Creed summarises the nature of the Trinity revealed to us, it’s a “mystery” and a “mystery” is not supposed to be fully comprehended. We must receive it compelled by faith!

Like I said, the nature of Holy Trinity is a paradox, and paradoxes are everywhere in Christian doctrines (e.g. Christ’s dual nature – fully human and fully divine).
 
I am with the majority of the Catholics that have responded, noting that God *is *the Divinity. To those who doubt, I ask: God can create the universe, but he cannot become human or dwell in his followers’ hearts (Holy Spirit)? The only thing that seperates the Son from the Father is that the Son is God incarnate. Basically, God begot, with Mother Mary, Jesus as Messiah. Flesh is the only divider.
 
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