The Truth: We Are Saved By Faith Alone

[Icarus210]

There but by the Grace of God go I…

Brendon… I have walked in your shoes… You are now what I was… So heavenly you are no earthly use… oh do i remember my Pentecostal days.

Its not what you say, its how you say it… the arrogance of misbelief is mindboggling… A little Truth is a dangerous thing… and you are a danger to yourself. You are welcome here, because while you are here you are hurting no-one… our faith is strong… You could be dangerous on other sites though… so stick around.

The reason for the anger by the way, is you are fighting God… because you have been taught the truth… and you are rejecting it… that is the hardest point to come back from… you do need our prayers… especially Mary’s

 

[mozart-250]

some more brainwashing. So so sad that you don’t know Jesus

Just curious here…how do you know that she does not know Jesus? Please do not ignore this question.

Oh…and btw we are saved by grace through faith…not as a result of works that no man should boast…not faith alone. If you want to deal in slogans, at least use “living faith alone”.

 

[Milliardo]

Don’t allow anyone or any church tell you that you need to do good works to win your way to Heaven. It is a lie. Scripture screams that we are saved by our faith in Christ and that works are the results of our faith, not the saving mechanism.

Oh boy–done to death already here. I always say that those who believe in this one will have very big problems on the Judgment passages as it shows us there that God’s basis for our Judgment is our works, and everytime those passages come up, it’s either they’re not commented on by proponents of sola fide, or else give them an interpretation that is not explicitly or implicitly stated in those passages. In short, sola fide proponents are in denial that these passages exist.

 

[teachccd]

I am so sorry that you really feel that way. Do you really feel that way or are you just trying to be the best Catholic you think you can be? The truth here is that what I said is backed totally by scripture after scripture. What so you have but statements from mere men who claim that their Tradition trumps scripture. I’m sorry to say here that it is your ignorance that makes you look embarrassing in front of the saints and other fellow Christians. God bless and forgive you.

I have the Truth so in that department there is nothing to forgive, thank you very much. And, yes, I am the best Catholic that I can be by not letting someone like you bring down my faith with a bunch if ignorant lies…

 

[mercygate]

Before I begin I would like to say this is my first post and I’m glad to be connected to so many people who love and live thier faith. May God bless all of you!

Now to comment on Branden’s original statement that “We are saved by faith alone” I will refute this with only two bible verses.

1. Rom. 3:28 “For we consider that a person is justified by faith apart from works of he law”
2. James 2:17 “So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead”

…I think that we can all agree that if your faith is dead you can not enter heaven. Now let’s recap
a) You can only enter heaven if you have a living faith. “Rom. 3:28”
b) You can only have a living faith through your works.
“James 2:17”

Gee the Bible is sounding pretty Catholic!

Well, Sean, If there were a prize for Outstanding First Post, I would vote for this one. Welcome to the forums, and I look forward to seeing more of you.

 

[mercygate]

There but by the Grace of God go I…

Brendon… I have walked in your shoes… You are now what I was… So heavenly you are no earthly use… oh do i remember my Pentecostal days.

Its not what you say, its how you say it… the arrogance of misbelief is mindboggling… A little Truth is a dangerous thing… and you are a danger to yourself. You are welcome here, because while you are here you are hurting no-one… our faith is strong… You could be dangerous on other sites though… so stick around.

The reason for the anger by the way, is you are fighting God… because you have been taught the truth… and you are rejecting it… that is the hardest point to come back from… you do need our prayers… especially Mary’s

What a beautiful post. And I am sure you will affirm that when a person like Brenden, who has left and returns again, the repentance is staggering! The Holy Spirit seems to give them a double helping of charity and zeal. I offered my morning Mass and Rosary for Brendan today.

 

[lizaanne]

The eucharist is receiving the real Jesus but if you only have faith in the saving mechanisms of the church and not in him, you’re dead. I’ll bet on my belief over yours, thanks.

Why are you even here then? You are not going to convert any Catholics here, so I have to wonder if you actually deep down inside think we have something you don’t. Worth consideration - but don’t think you are going to “save” anyone from the Catholic Faith.

~Liza

 

[Monkey1976]

The problem with all of that is that there is no true tempering of truth there. You will find that what scripture actually says about many things clearly does not square at all with Catholic teaching. Can you show me where Mary is a mediator between us and Jesus or how we come to Jesus through her like Jesus came to us through her in using Scripture?

John2:5:

His mother said to the servers, “Do whatever He tells you”

 

[Scottgun]

Right on Monkey. Our Lord is the sole mediator of our *saving grace, *but while that is the most important grace, it’s not the only grace out there. There are what are known as actual graces. Apostolic healings, driving out demons, etc. Theses are all done *instrumentally. *That’s mediation.

 

[BrandenRush]

If we are saved by faith alone, then what is the point of everything else? Why do we not ascend at adult baptism?
Once baptised can I go around killing and raping?
Is there no consequence to my actions?

BTW don’t get all technical on me…I don’t have the skills and knowledge of many here.

This shows someone who clearly does not read scripture and has no idea of what they are talking about. Don’t accuse me of being ignorant to a faith I lived for decades and then not respond to garbage like this in a fashion in which it obviously deserves. You folks are hypocrites to a fault.

 

[Grateful4mercy]

I love this guy :extrahappy:

It’s as if he came busting into a steakhouse yelling at us " THAT STUFF IS MADE FROM DEAD COWS!!! DID YOU KNOW THAT!!!" meanwhile we all just stare at him blankly, chewing away at our steaks. :ehh:

Answer me this, my friend.

I’m pretty sure that if Protestants are right about salvation that Catholics will meet the minimum daily requirement of Faith Alone. What happens to YOU if Catholics are right?

P.S. As for the good thief…correcting the attitude of the “bad” thief was a WORK! As was repenting his past (work #2) and asking for forgiveness (work #3)! He didn’t just hang there and get saved. He did all he could in the situation he was in, God doesn’t require miracles from us.

Now go in peace to serve the Lord before I have to light a candle for you.

 

[Monkey1976]

If you want a solid refutation of Sola Fide, how about straight from Our Lord:
John3:16-21:

16
For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life.
17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
18
Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
19
And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil.
20
For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.
21
But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God.

Good works are simply an outward sign of internal faith. If we claim faith without performing good works, then we are misleading ourselves and others. It’s not enough to simply say, “Jesus is my Savior” - one has to live up to that claim of belief.

 

[BrandenRush]

If you want a solid refutation of Sola Fide, how about straight from Our Lord:

Good works are simply an outward sign of internal faith. If we claim faith without performing good works, then we are misleading ourselves and others. It’s not enough to simply say, “Jesus is my Savior” - one has to live up to that claim of belief.

I can concur with that for the most part, but still it is important to remember that you can have works without faith but not faith without works. Jesus told the woman who bathed his feet that her faith has saved her. The bathing of the feet was the works part.

 

[BrandenRush]

I love this guy :extrahappy:

It’s as if he came busting into a steakhouse yelling at us " THAT STUFF IS MADE FROM DEAD COWS!!! DID YOU KNOW THAT!!!" meanwhile we all just stare at him blankly, chewing away at our steaks. :ehh:

Answer me this, my friend.

I’m pretty sure that if Protestants are right about salvation that Catholics will meet the minimum daily requirement of Faith Alone. What happens to YOU if Catholics are right?

P.S. As for the good thief…correcting the attitude of the “bad” thief was a WORK! As was repenting his past (work #2) and asking for forgiveness (work #3)! He didn’t just hang there and get saved. He did all he could in the situation he was in, God doesn’t require miracles from us.

Now go in peace to serve the Lord before I have to light a candle for you.

Oh gosh, this is amazing. You are so brainwashed into Catholic faith. The man sinned horribly his whole life and knew at the point when the other man was harrassing Jesus that Jesus was the savior. This is when he interrupted and made his confession to Jesus, but when he asked Jesus to remember him, he showed his Faith, he didn’t do some sort of penance like his faith wouldn’t be enough. Read the scripture passage for what it is saying.

 

[mercygate]

Oh gosh, this is amazing. You are so brainwashed into Catholic faith. The man sinned horribly his whole life and knew at the point when the other man was harrassing Jesus that Jesus was the savior. This is when he interrupted and made his confession to Jesus, but when he asked Jesus to remember him, he showed his Faith, he didn’t do some sort of penance like his faith wouldn’t be enough. Read the scripture passage for what it is saying.

The Good Thief episode is often used to illustrate “faith alone.” To the extent that this man had no opportunity to demonstrate a living faith by “working out his salvation with fear and trembling” – as St. Paul admonishes in the Epistle to the Philippians – he IS saved by his faith. But as with so much in Scripture, the principle that of him who is given much, much is required applies in the normal course of events. The Catholic Church has always affirmed deathbed conversions. Which, of course, you will know, having been Catholic for decades. There is no contradiction between the Good Thief’s redemption and the notion that faith cannot be merely a said affirmation.

As for the faith of the thief: He does not profess Christ as savior – All he says is that “this man is innocent.” And Jesus promises him Paradise. Talk about MERCY!

 

[MelanieAnne]

Branden, I am ex Episcopalian, now Catholic. While I do not dispute what you have said about your past, and with all due respect, your comments about Catholics sound very much like someone who thinks they know about the Catholic faith, but really doesn’t. I had some of the same misconceptions before I truly learned about the Catholic faith.

Further, I would caution you to bear in mind that you are visiting a Catholic forum and we have rules. The rules are freely available for you to review. While a free exchange of views is encouraged, personal attacks and uncharitable posts are not. If you wish to keep posting here, it would be wise to review the rules.

Finally, while you say you are happy in your current faith, that joy and peace does not come through in your posts, but disquiet and anger shine quite brightly. If you truly have found peace and joy in your new faith, please let us see it reflected in your exchanges with others.

 

[Grateful4mercy]

Oh gosh, this is amazing. You are so brainwashed into Catholic faith.

Yeah, its me with the brainwashing problem. That’s why I walked like a zombie over to the Catholic Forums and started spouting anti-catholic venom…oh wait…that was YOU!

The man sinned horribly his whole life and knew at the point when the other man was harrassing Jesus that Jesus was the savior.

Ah, and you know this because it’s written where?

This is when he interrupted and made his confession to Jesus, but when he asked Jesus to remember him, he showed his Faith, he didn’t do some sort of penance like his faith wouldn’t be enough. Read the scripture passage for what it is saying.

Wait, isn’t confession a work? and i would say dieing on a cross is a pretty good penance, wouldn’t you? Wasn’t it punishment enough to save the entire world?

You might need to brush up on your vocabulary, maybe you don’t know what a work is. Let me give you a few examples, see if any of these sound familiar:

Prayer
Charity
Love
Hope
Tithing
Preaching the Word
Mercy

How about all the healings in the Acts? Are those works? Didn’t Jesus tell the Apostles to go out and DO something? I don’t remember reading anywhere that St. John told Jesus “Look, we believe in you, ain’t that enough?”

Peace my friend.

 

[Monkey1976]

Oh gosh, this is amazing. You are so brainwashed into Catholic faith. The man sinned horribly his whole life and knew at the point when the other man was harrassing Jesus that Jesus was the savior. This is when he interrupted and made his confession to Jesus, but when he asked Jesus to remember him, he showed his Faith, he didn’t do some sort of penance like his faith wouldn’t be enough. Read the scripture passage for what it is saying.

Luke23:39-43:

39
Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, “Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us.”
40
The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, “Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation?
41
And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal.”
42
Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43
He replied to him, “Amen, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.”

These verses show the good thief performing at least three of the Spritual Works of Mercy:

• He admonishes the sinner (“Have you no fear of God”)
• He instructs the ignorant (“this man has done nothing criminal”)
• He comforts the afflicted (By rebuking the thief reviling Jesus, he is providing comfort to Our Lord)

In addition, he is shown as penitent for his sins (“we have been condemned justly”). Following this, he asks for (and is granted) forgiveness from Our Lord - just like we Catholics do in the Sacrament of Confession. He did these works because he had faith in the Lord, not instead of having faith in Him. As Catholics, we are called to do the same, because:
James2:14-26:

14
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25
And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26
For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

 

[BrandenRush]

Branden, I am ex Episcopalian, now Catholic. While I do not dispute what you have said about your past, and with all due respect, your comments about Catholics sound very much like someone who thinks they know about the Catholic faith, but really doesn’t. I had some of the same misconceptions before I truly learned about the Catholic faith.

Further, I would caution you to bear in mind that you are visiting a Catholic forum and we have rules. The rules are freely available for you to review. While a free exchange of views is encouraged, personal attacks and uncharitable posts are not. If you wish to keep posting here, it would be wise to review the rules.

Finally, while you say you are happy in your current faith, that joy and peace does not come through in your posts, but disquiet and anger shine quite brightly. If you truly have found peace and joy in your new faith, please let us see it reflected in your exchanges with others.

There is a clear double-standard going on here. Folks here put up some very hostile posts in painting me ignorant and knowing of nothing and such but that seems to be ok just as long as I do not respond with the spark that they have. I can clearly see what really goes on here.

 

[mozart-250]

Oh Branden, I see you are neglecting to answer my question on how you know that Eileen T. does not know Jesus. Just saying…