The Truth: We Are Saved By Faith Alone

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This is an interesting thread.

My hopes and prayers rest in the Holy Spirit. I hope and pray that Branden sticks around and gets to know us and the faith better.
 
Jennifer_G said:
Even as a Lutheran, here is the problem I have with that statement of Faith Alone.

What about someone who, by baptism, and thus faith, is saved, but never lives a Christian life? (never attends church, drinks, does drugs, even has a criminal rap sheet, etc., etc., etc.) Are they going to instantly get into Heaven? (rhetorical question)
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This is the real nitty-gritty problem of the OSAS position. The most often quoted answer is “they were never really really truely saved”

Even Satan knows that Jesus was Who He said He was.

I am catholic but I love to listen to ministers of other denominations. They do have a gift of turning Scripture into real everyday lnaguage. (Wish the pope would do that.!!!) Some called OSAS “greasy grace”. Some have admitted that you can lose your salvation if you remain in rebellion against God.

We must work to guard our souls. That is quite different than this misinformation that is said that catholics think they can work their way into Heaven.
 
Ilroy said:
If you are in fact a bit older than 16 then I apologize, but you are sure coming across that way and your lack of knowledge of the real teaching of the Church implies that you didn’t live the Faith for decades.
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Okay…that is insulting. I’m 16 and quite learned in the Catholic faith, (although i’m not trying to sound prideful or anything and always welcome lessons from older Catholics.) You do not have to live in the faith for decades to be well learned in it. You just have to pay attention in mass and read the Catholicism of the Catholic Church and the bible.

Now that being said

Oh most beautful flower of mount Carmel, fruitful vine, splendor of heaven, blest mother of the son of God, Immaculate virgin. Assist me in this my nessacity (the conversion of non catholics) oh star of the sea, help me. Show me herein that you are my mother. Holy Mary mother of God, queen of heaven and earth, I humbly beeseech you from the bottem of my heart to aid me in my need ( the conversion of non catholics) there are none that can withstand your power. Oh show me herein that you are my mother. Oh Mary conceived without sin pray for us who have recoursed to thee.Oh show me herein that you are my mother. Oh Mary conceived without sin pray for us who have recoursed to thee.Oh show me herein that you are my mother. Oh Mary conceived without sin pray for us who have recoursed to thee. Sweet mother I place this cause in your hands.Sweet mother I place this cause in your hands.Sweet mother I place this cause in your hands. Amen.
 
BrandenRush said:
Don’t allow anyone or any church tell you that you need to do good works to win your way to Heaven. It is a lie. Scripture screams that we are saved by our faith in Christ and that works are the results of our faith, not the saving mechanism. Jesus said to accept Heaven like a child accepts a gift. That doesn’t mean going to mass everyday and going to confession once a week is going to buy your ticket to Heaven because it won’t. You won’t find Jesus through the mazes of the Roman Catholic church. You will find him by reading and studying Scripture and praying to him and seeking him in all that you do. The church can’t save you, Mary can’t save you, only faith in jesus Christ can save you no matter how much of a sinner or how little of a sinner you are!
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Wow I just read through 9 pages and you have me at a disadvantage. The truth, we are saved by grace, for faith is a work and a choice and there is nothing we can do to earn heaven it is a free gift, your faith doesn’t save, but the grace of God through Christ saves, - oh I forget, you have to accept that gift, does that turn it into works? You got me confussed:confused: , for if I accept something such has a gift then that is an action, and if I act on something then that becomes a work. right? 🤷
So now we are talking free gift, accepting free gift, can’t earn it, but have to act on it. Grace, faith, action. God - me - God and me working together. Love -Faith -Hope, God’s love, my faith = Hope of Heaven. oops, That almost sounds like I have something to do with my salvation? But as a Catholic I know that it is Jesus that saves, not me. But do I sit back and do nothing with that gift? Or do I have to share it? If I share it isn’t that a work?:confused:
Like I said, you have me at disadvantage, you know so much about the Catholic Church, being raised Catholic, read the CCC and so on, I’m just a convert. But I have no idea what the Statement of Faith from the church you now belong to.
You know Statement of Faith and Beliefs to the church you currently belong to?
You say, or did you, say you are a protestant, is that a Baptist, Methodist, non-demonation, or ?
To make the discussion fair, could you, would you post the Statement of Faith and Beliefs to the church you belong too?
Blessings to you and yours.
JMJ
Bennie P ><>
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
I don’t believe that anything I do alone is going to save me. What an erroneous notion and flatly contradictory to scripture. GOD’S GRACE saves us.
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**Amen to that! **
Prayer_Warrior said:
Oh, and yes, the Catholic Church existed prior to the fourth century. It is referenced by name by St. Ignatius in 107AD. I’m not sure when they shifted from being called “Christians” to being called Catholic but it was within 100 years of Christ’s death and resurrection. Perhaps they wanted to pick a name that represented the Church’s universality? Maybe they looked to scripture to find such a title. Perhaps they looked to Acts 9:31 and saw “the Church throughout all” (ekklesia kath olos) and thought that it had a nice ring to it. It is indeed, the Church throughout all. Exactly as Christ intended it to be.
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**Hmmm… taken a bit out of context, wouldn’t you say? Here is what the whole verse says, in several versions:
**
**-- King James
Acts 9:31 Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.

– New King James
Acts 9:31 Then the churches throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria had peace and were edified. And walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, they were multiplied.

– American Standard
Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria had peace, being edified; and, walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, was multiplied.

– Living Bible
Acts 9:31 Meanwhile, the church had peace throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria, and grew in strength and numbers. The believers learned how to walk in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit.

– Revised Standard
Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria had peace and was built up; and walking in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit it was multiplied.
**
**-- Simple English
Acts 9:31 Everywhere in Judea, Galilee, and Samaria, God’s people had a time of peace. With the help of the Holy Spirit, the group became stronger and stronger. The believers showed that they respected the Lord by the way they lived. Because of this, the group of believers grew larger and larger.

– New American Standard
Acts 9:31 So the church throughout all Judea and Galilee and Samaria enjoyed peace, being built up; and, going on in the fear of the Lord and in the comfort of the Holy Spirit, it continued to increase.

– New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Acts 9:31 The churches throughout Judaea, Galilee and Samaria were now left in peace, building themselves up and living in the fear of the Lord; encouraged by the Holy Spirit, they continued to grow.

– New American with Apocrypha
Acts 9:31 The church throughout all Judea, Galilee, and Samaria was at peace. It was being built up and walked in the fear of the Lord, and with the consolation of the holy Spirit it grew in numbers.
**
 
Faith without works is dead. Dead – defunct, powerless, without life, without movement, without God, plain and utterly dead.

'Nuff said.
 
Ahimsa said:
Faith without works is dead. Dead – defunct, powerless, without life, without movement, without God, plain and utterly dead.

'Nuff said.
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Apparently dead, doesn’t mean “dead” anymore to certain groups of people. :yup:

In Pax Christi
Andrew
 
Brothers and Sisters in Christ, we must not slander each other, be careful with pride.
 
Acts 26:20
but kept declaring both to those of Damascus first, and also at Jerusalem and then throughout all the region of Judea, and even to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds appropriate to repentance
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Doesn’t sound like Faith Alone to me. In fact, it sounds like Paul is saying Faith + Works…

In Christ
 
Branden! Come back! We miss you.

It’s funny how we all love the drama, isn’t it?
 
I don’t think he’ll ber back. All of his posts were made between midnight and 11 am on Wednesday, July 11, only.
 
Phil12123 said:
**Amen to that! **

**Hmmm… taken a bit out of context, wouldn’t you say? Here is what the whole verse says, in several versions:
**
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I don’t think it is out of context to see in scripture the words “ekklesia kath olos” which mean “Church throughout all” and speculate that *perhaps *the early Christians thought that had a nice ring to it. Kathlikos is certainly not the same as kath olos but there is a noteworthy similarity. There is no definitive evidence that this passage was a source of inspiration to the early Christians to come up with the name “Catholic Church”, nor did I mean to imply that there was. I was only remarking that perhaps these words in the Acts could have been an inspiration for the name of the Church.

Regardless of whether this scripture had anything to do with inspiring the early Christians to name their Church, it is apparent through numerous writings that the Catholic Church was in place, and using the name “Catholic” prior to the fourth century. To say otherwise shows an utter disregard for historical evidence.
 
Prayer_Warrior said:
I don’t think it is out of context to see in scripture the words “ekklesia kath olos” which mean “Church throughout all” and speculate that *perhaps *the early Christians thought that had a nice ring to it. Kathlikos is certainly not the same as kath olos but there is a noteworthy similarity. There is no definitive evidence that this passage was a source of inspiration to the early Christians to come up with the name “Catholic Church”, nor did I mean to imply that there was. I was only remarking that perhaps these words in the Acts could have been an inspiration for the name of the Church.

Regardless of whether this scripture had anything to do with inspiring the early Christians to name their Church, it is apparent through numerous writings that the Catholic Church was in place, and using the name “Catholic” prior to the fourth century. To say otherwise shows an utter disregard for historical evidence.
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The earliest use of the word “Katholikos” as the name (or even the description) of the Church I’ve heard of is in Saint Ignatius of Antioch’s Letter to the Smyrnaeans, which was written in 107. He was most likely a student of Saint John the Apostle, and was appointed to the See of Antioch by Saint Peter. Here is the relevant portion of the letter:
SaintIgnatiusofAntioch:
Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.
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I dislike Sola Fide for these reasons

-Simply too easy an answer. All we have to do to keep up our bargian is just believe in him. Good Works and Love Thy Neighbor, who needs them?
-It says that 66% of the world is automatically going to hell for something that may not be their fault (and won’t in most cases). Not a very kind and merciful God I would say.
-History. All early theologians agreed, Catholic and heretical, that faith was not sufficent enough. So you say that it took 1500 years for a monk in Germany to find out the real meaning of Jesus’s sacrifice?
 
Bennie_P said:
Wow I just read through 9 pages and you have me at a disadvantage. The truth, we are saved by grace, for faith is a work and a choice and there is nothing we can do to earn heaven it is a free gift, your faith doesn’t save, but the grace of God through Christ saves, - oh I forget, you have to accept that gift, does that turn it into works? You got me confussed:confused: , for if I accept something such has a gift then that is an action, and if I act on something then that becomes a work. right? 🤷
So now we are talking free gift, accepting free gift, can’t earn it, but have to act on it. Grace, faith, action. God - me - God and me working together. Love -Faith -Hope, God’s love, my faith = Hope of Heaven. oops, That almost sounds like I have something to do with my salvation? But as a Catholic I know that it is Jesus that saves, not me. But do I sit back and do nothing with that gift? Or do I have to share it? If I share it isn’t that a work?:confused:
Like I said, you have me at disadvantage, you know so much about the Catholic Church, being raised Catholic, read the CCC and so on, I’m just a convert. But I have no idea what the Statement of Faith from the church you now belong to.
You know Statement of Faith and Beliefs to the church you currently belong to?
You say, or did you, say you are a protestant, is that a Baptist, Methodist, non-demonation, or ?
To make the discussion fair, could you, would you post the Statement of Faith and Beliefs to the church you belong too?
Blessings to you and yours.
JMJ
Bennie P ><>
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You seem far too confused which does not surprise me at all if your mind is filled with all of the Catholic rhetoric (which I am not faulting you for). It is outlined in scripture very well and very simple. Jesus said that we must accept the gift of heaven as a child accepts a gift. I trust that you have been around children on Christmas morning. See how easy it works. Salvation is based upon belief and a growth of faith in progress. The faith is in progression not your chances at salvation. God doesn’t grant it today and think of revoking it tomorrow like the CC makes it seem. Read scripture on this.
 
BrandenRush said:
You seem far too confused which does not surprise me at all if your mind is filled with all of the Catholic rhetoric (which I am not faulting you for). It is outlined in scripture very well and very simple. Jesus said that we must accept the gift of heaven as a child accepts a gift. I trust that you have been around children on Christmas morning. See how easy it works. Salvation is based upon belief and a growth of faith in progress. The faith is in progression not your chances at salvation. God doesn’t grant it today and think of revoking it tomorrow like the CC makes it seem. Read scripture on this.
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BRANDEN!!!

Where’ve you BEEN brother? We’ve missed you ! :hug1:
 
BrandenRush said:
You seem far too confused which does not surprise me at all if your mind is filled with all of the Catholic rhetoric (which I am not faulting you for). It is outlined in scripture very well and very simple. Jesus said that we must accept the gift of heaven as a child accepts a gift. I trust that you have been around children on Christmas morning. See how easy it works. Salvation is based upon belief and a growth of faith in progress. The faith is in progression not your chances at salvation. God doesn’t grant it today and think of revoking it tomorrow like the CC makes it seem. Read scripture on this.
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It is a free gift, we agree on that… However, the gift cannot be used if it is not opened. One cannot just sit there staring at the gift. One must act on it. Everyone gets the gift but it is those who respond by opening it that get the benefits of the gift.

Christ died for EVERYONE but is it those who respond in faith (which is also a work because faith requires a consent of the intellect and the will), who will receive the reward of heaven. Let’s not forget also that 1 Cor 13:13 says, “And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.” Love is a work and it’s greater than faith!

1 Cor 13:2
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

God doesn’t revoke it! But we can certainly walk away from it and be cut off.

Romans 11:22-23
Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

You can’t be cut off from something you don’t already have!
 
BrandenRush said:
Very very busy!! Glad I can be here for a few minutes. Lord’s peace to you all.
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I can understand that! I’m glad you remembered us when you had a few precious minutes to spare 👍

Hope you can stay a while. You definitely spiced things up around here.

God Bless.
 
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