The Tudors

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Poof said:
I know everything in this show should be taken with a grain of salt but I feel that the show has been fairly reasonable in terms of its portrayals of both sides (Catholic and Protestant). There have been a lot of things in this show which have piqued my interest and I can only wonder if these are actually factual.
  1. Is it true that during those times, “Kings got divorced all the time and Popes always found an excuse”? The following was said by Cardinal Thomas Wosley in the series. The show has been interesting so far and It seems to have no anti-Catholic leanings whatsoever, however, I find it hard to believe that an (so far) impartial show could promote such a glaring historical lie. :eek:
  2. Historically speaking, was Cardinal Wolsey a worldly and ambitious man? (as he is portrayed in this show)?
  3. Did Henry VIII’s sister really kill that Portugal king (via suffocation)?
If there are any other important historical falsehoods that are presented in this show that I should know about please let me know!
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  1. I wouldn’t say all the time. Certainly there were a number of rather convenient and dodgy annulments among royalty - Henry VIII’s own sister Margaret being one example.
Then again, royalty were much intermarried and so usually fairly closely related to each other. Rules about marrying relatives were stricter in those days too - including second
cousins and more distant relations.

So it would have been fairly easy for a royal to contract a technically invalid marriage which could be annulled.
  1. Very much so. He had a mistress and children, and lived every bit as grandly as the King (in fact built two fabulous residences which later became Whitehall Palace abs Hampton Court Palace after Henry took them from him.)
  2. Absolutely not. He had two sisters, one married the King of France, the other the King of Scotland. Neither ever had anything to do with the King of Portugal, and neither ever murdered anyone.
I haven’t seen enough of the series to comment too much on any other historical errors.
 
austenbosten said:
I couldn’t watch it, with all the numerous sex scenes I just expected Henry VIII to just break the “fourth wall” and say

youtube.com/watch?v=7bF38rT7et0
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There’s a syndicated version of the Tudors out there now that has the sex scenes and a bit of the language censored for cable television. I don’t know if you could find it on video, but it removes pretty much all of the graphically objectionable material (although it is all still heavily implied).
 
Rolltide said:
There’s a syndicated version of the Tudors out there now that has the sex scenes and a bit of the language censored for cable television. I don’t know if you could find it on video, but it removes pretty much all of the graphically objectionable material (although it is all still heavily implied).
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Yeah. On CBC is came on I think, I don’t know how censored it WAS, but not as bad.
It’s ridiculous they’d show anything on TV like that anyway. (the sex scenes, I mean)
 
When I was still Protestant, I loved the Tudors and I admit one reason I loved it was because Henry was hot. I didn’t complain too much about the sex scenes either.

However, I was really impressed with the beautiful church architecture, music and also by Catherine of Aragon’s devotion to God and her faith.

I had never seen such a devout lay Catholic before.

Unbeknownst to me, God used my carnality to plant a little seed in my mind and heart. The Tudors helped to spark my interest in Catholicism and made me want to know more, although I didn’t realize it then.

Then I found CAF and the rest is history. 🙂
 
I will concede that the Tudors series contained more gratuitous sex than I would have liked and, yes, the King was HOT :D, but it IS cable television after all. I was impressed with the overall balance when it came to the portrayal of the schism between Mother Church and the foundation of the Anglicans.

One thing that I found interesting was the story of St. Thomas More. They were honest about the burning of heretics at the stake, but I felt that they looked at his devotion from less than Catholic eyes. Again, overall, I thought they dealt with the issue fairly and it was a reasonably good TV series. I am disappointed they didn’t continue with the lives of his children. That is also a fascinating story.

Sr Iris Marie
 
I’ve just been watching the Tudors on Netflix. I’m pretty hazy on English history so I have to keep running back to Wikipedia.

There are plenty of characters to hate, esp. Wolsey, Thos. Boleyn and above all Cromwell. On the other side Maria Doyle’s performance as Catherine of Aragon was stunning.

Anybody else notice all the gingers running around? Maybe they were the cause of all the trouble 🙂

It’s fun to imagine 16th century monarchy but with 20th century news coverage. Imagine the ratings during Henry’s reign.
 
didymus said:
I’ve just been watching the Tudors on Netflix. I’m pretty hazy on English history so I have to keep running back to Wikipedia.

There are plenty of characters to hate, esp. Wolsey, Thos. Boleyn and above all Cromwell. On the other side Maria Doyle’s performance as Catherine of Aragon was stunning.

Anybody else notice all the gingers running around? Maybe they were the cause of all the trouble 🙂

It’s fun to imagine 16th century monarchy but with 20th century news coverage. Imagine the ratings during Henry’s reign.
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Haha! A lot of gingers, eh? Well, I do believe that gingers ran amok back in the days of King Henry VIII. 😉 But, I do agree, there were several people I loved to hate when I watched the series and Cromwell led my poop list too. However, as despicable as he may have been, I admit that I was touched before he was arrested and he advised a young boy that he could talk to God anyplace he desired. I realized that what is true now was probably true back then. Right or wrong, Protestants did have the salvation of souls on their minds and the Tudors were a dysfunctional clan, with or without Mother Church to support them. Moreover, no matter what he may have done wrong, he did not deserve to die the manner in which he was executed. That is a scene that will forever haunt me.

Maria Doyle did make a beautiful and pious Queen Catherine. The sets, costume design and cinematography were absolutely stunning as well. All in all, I found it to be an enjoyable and well executed series, destined to become a true cable TV classic.

Sr. Iris Marie
 
irisfromohio said:
Haha! A lot of gingers, eh? Well, I do believe that gingers ran amok back in the days of King Henry VIII. 😉 But, I do agree, there were several people I loved to hate when I watched the series and Cromwell led my poop list too. However, as despicable as he may have been, I admit that I was touched before he was arrested and he advised a young boy that he could talk to God anyplace he desired. I realized that what is true now was probably true back then. Right or wrong, Protestants did have the salvation of souls on their minds and the Tudors were a dysfunctional clan, with or without Mother Church to support them. Moreover, no matter what he may have done wrong, he did not deserve to die the manner in which he was executed. That is a scene that will forever haunt me.

Maria Doyle did make a beautiful and pious Queen Catherine. The sets, costume design and cinematography were absolutely stunning as well. All in all, I found it to be an enjoyable and well executed series, destined to become a true cable TV classic.

Sr. Iris Marie
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Well, there seem to be an unusually high proportion of gingers among the English nobility even today - just for starters I’m thinking of Prince Harry, Sarah Ferguson and her and Prince Andrew’s two girls. 😃
 
Well, I finally finished, Henry is dead.
I’m sorry for the “gingers” remark, I usually don’t use the term.

Really, everybody should hate Henry but he has got more-than-fair shake from history. Being a “hands-off” manager and letting his ministers do his dirty work let him pull the old “If the Tsar only knew how his people suffered” gag.

A few of the inaccuracies (that I’m aware of) bugged me. First, they couldn’t have done the series in Shakespearean English, I get that. But using using current terms like “his agenda” or contractions slip in, &c certainly grate.
The portrayal of the siege of Boulogne was especially stupid. The English would not have gone there [facepalm] “We’ll have to tunnel in”. They would have brought sappers and miners with them. Boulogne was twenty years after the siege of Vienna, a race between the miners and the defenders trying to block the tunnels.

Anyway, after the whole Tudor experience I watched a light comedy (Hopscotch w/ Walter Matthau) as a palate cleanser.
 
About as historically acturate as a cartoon. Cliff Version of TUDOR History: I’ve read hundreds of books on the Tudors going back to Henry’s mother Catherine de Volois a Princess of France who married her servant Owen Tudor for love after her husband Henry V died in battle. They had several children in secret but as secrets do it eventually came out. Catherine died shortly after it and Owen was arrested. Their sons Edmund and Jasper were loyal brothers to Henry VI and he favored them but being mentally ill he lost power and the York family Edward, George and Richard III took power for awhile (wars of the Roses or cousins war as it was called) Eventually Edmund Tudor married Margaret Beaufort (she was in line for the throne) and they had a son Henry Tudor who would eventually fight Richard III and win becoming king. He married Elizabeth of York the daughter of kind Edward who had died much earlier and united the family and the kindom but still had to deal with several rebellions. They had 4 living childred…yes Henry had 2 sister not just one. Arthur, Margaret Henry and Mary. Arthur died young (this was very common even among the wealthy). Margaret married the king of Scotland and her decendents through her son James I united brittian under one crown. Henry VIII of course married 6 times and had 3 children. Mary wed the king of France for about 90 days before he died after which she ran off with Brandon the Duke of Suffolk for love. They were married for quite some time and had several children but most died except their daughters one of which was the mother of Jane Grey the 9 days queen. Mary died just before Henry put the country though his divorce from Catherine. Brandon married his 14 year old ward later. He was known as something as a ladies man. For the record Henry’s sister Margaret was married 3xs. She divorced her second husband and tried to divorce for 3rd as well but her son and brother put a hold on it. She like her brother, sister and most of her family seemed to always be on the lookout for love.
 
Luvz2travel said:
About as historically acturate as a cartoon. Cliff Version of TUDOR History: I’ve read hundreds of books on the Tudors going back to Henry’s mother Catherine de Volois a Princess of France who married her servant Owen Tudor for love after her husband Henry V died in battle. They had several children in secret but as secrets do it eventually came out. Catherine died shortly after it and Owen was arrested. Their sons Edmund and Jasper were loyal brothers to Henry VI and he favored them but being mentally ill he lost power and the York family Edward, George and Richard III took power for awhile (wars of the Roses or cousins war as it was called) Eventually Edmund Tudor married Margaret Beaufort (she was in line for the throne) and they had a son Henry Tudor who would eventually fight Richard III and win becoming king. He married Elizabeth of York the daughter of kind Edward who had died much earlier and united the family and the kindom but still had to deal with several rebellions. They had 4 living childred…yes Henry had 2 sister not just one. Arthur, Margaret Henry and Mary. Arthur died young (this was very common even among the wealthy). Margaret married the king of Scotland and her decendents through her son James I united brittian under one crown. Henry VIII of course married 6 times and had 3 children. Mary wed the king of France for about 90 days before he died after which she ran off with Brandon the Duke of Suffolk for love. They were married for quite some time and had several children but most died except their daughters one of which was the mother of Jane Grey the 9 days queen. Mary died just before Henry put the country though his divorce from Catherine. Brandon married his 14 year old ward later. He was known as something as a ladies man. For the record Henry’s sister Margaret was married 3xs. She divorced her second husband and tried to divorce for 3rd as well but her son and brother put a hold on it. She like her brother, sister and most of her family seemed to always be on the lookout for love.
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Catherine of Valois was Henry VIII’s great grandmother. Her marriage to Owen Tudor makes an interesting and very sad story. She was the widow of Henry V, and not supposed to remarry without the permission of the government. He was not noble or anything, so their marriage would never have been approved, hence the secret. After it was discovered, he was imprisoned and died in prison 😦

Yes, Henry VIII and his sisters were all married more than once. Perhaps seeing all that drama was what made Elizabeth I decide to remain unwed 🤷
 
LilyM said:
Catherine of Valois was Henry VIII’s great grandmother. Her marriage to Owen Tudor makes an interesting and very sad story. She was the widow of Henry V, and not supposed to remarry without the permission of the government. He was not noble or anything, so their marriage would never have been approved, hence the secret. After it was discovered, he was imprisoned and died in prison 😦

Yes, Henry VIII and his sisters were all married more than once. Perhaps seeing all that drama was what made Elizabeth I decide to remain unwed 🤷
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Sorry it was a typo I forgot to include that Catherine de Valois was married to Henry V. To be clear Owen Tudor was a very minor noble not a commoner (otherwise he wouldn’t have had a position near the queen). I believe he was a knight or something. His family claimed kinship with the royal family of Wales who had long since disappeared so who knows for sure. The coundil made rule so the widowed queen could not marry because they were afraid of losing power and even separated the poor queen from her son. I do believe Owen Tudor was released for a spell but I’ll have to look that up but he did die relatively soon after the queen. I agree about Elizabeth she most likely felt that marriage was a great gamble for a woman, usually caused more trouble than it was worth and didn’t want to lose power to a husband. Also she had a bad experience with her guardian who may have abused her and was later executed for trying to kidnap and marry her for the crown. He was married to her stepmother Queen Katherine Parr while he was trying to court her. Also as a child she told her greatest friend and the love of her life Robert Dudely that she would likely never marry and she never did but who cold blame her with her history.
 
didymus said:
Okay, so could somebody recommend a good biography of Henry VIII?
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David Starkey has done a few - depends on what aspect of his reigns you’re interested in. Or perhaps JJ Scarisbrick or Alison Weir. Starkey and Weir have both written separately on the wives as well as Henry himself, so for a rounded picture maybe include both books.
 
didymus said:
Okay, so could somebody recommend a good biography of Henry VIII?
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I’ll second anything by Alison Weir. She has several books on Tudor history - ranging from books on Henry VIII to his wives and on his children.
 
Just finished watching “Shadow of the Tower” a sort of sequel to the 6 Wives of Henry VII. It’s about Henry VII and his struggle to hold on the throne he won for the Tudor family. I found it to be very historically true. It’s great if you really love history with a lot of detail but if your looking for more of a soap style flashy drama this wouldn’t be for you. While Henry VII has a reputation as a miser he was by many accounts just being smart as in the series he explains to his son that without money there’s no power or security for the nation and he came to the throne with no money and had to build up his reserves to keep the nation secure. He seemed to be a good husband to Elizabeth of York and spent a lot of money on her furneral even his enemies said he was truly crushed when she died. He never married again and died soon after his wife. Unlike his son Henry VIII who seemed to be one of the worst husbands.
 
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