The Tunnels of Blind Faith

[GoodTony]

Yesterday, the neighborhood agnostic made the following comments:​

It just depends on what tunnel of blind faith you want to live in.
The Mormons look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Twelve Apostles in Salt Lake City say.

The Jehovah Witnesses look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in New York City says.

The Catholics look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Pope and his Cardinals in Rome say.

You “God-is-here-on-earth-people” are in a check-mate state and have no way out of your tunnels of blind faith.​

What do the forum members think of the agnostics’s comments?

 

[JDaniel]

Yesterday, the neighborhood agnostic made the following comments:​

It just depends on what tunnel of blind faith you want to live in.
The Mormons look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Twelve Apostles in Salt Lake City say.

The Jehovah Witnesses look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in New York City says.

The Catholics look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Pope and his Cardinals in Rome say.

You “God-is-here-on-earth-people” are in a check-mate state and have no way out of your tunnels of blind faith.​

What do the forum members think of the agnostics’s comments?

GoodTony:

And the biologist can look down the tunnel of apparent evolution and believe everything the evolutionist says.

And the physician can look down the tunnel of Physics and believe all of Physics.

And the chemist can look down the tunnel of organic chemistry and believe all of abiogenesis.

Etc., etc.

Everyone has had “tunnel vision” a time ot two in their lives. The proper vocations of people should be to work to widen out of those tunnels. I have a theory, although I have not tried to verify it, that the Catholic Church grows at a greater rate than any other “tunnel-vision” on earth. And, it grows differently, IOW, rather than by attrition.

God bless,
jd

 

[Whadyamean]

Actually, according to the CNA, the number of the “faithful” has remained pretty steady around 17.3% with growth in Africa and Asia and declining in Europe. (catholicnewsagency.com/news/global_catholic_population_remains_steady_africa_and_asia_continue_growing/)

Faith, manifest as simple habituation by osmosis from one’s family and peers, is a simple condition necessary for survival in one’s “home” group. It becomes obvious as one’s circle of comprehension grows that one’s beliefs, customs, etc, vary, sometimes wildly, from those of others. A part of becoming mature is the growth away from infantile ego and the stages that follow that in spite of the tendency of a mind to argue its particular way as being THE correct world view.

So there is no one, really, who does not have some variation of tunnel vision, even (Oh-my-God!) Catholics. So overcoming tunnel vision of any variety is a matter of maturity and personal growth incumbent on everyone of any derivation, and it is not strictly a religious or secular matter though we might try to narrow it to one of those. We might employ that tunnel vision idea especially when we hear any bit of belief that we do not agree with. But the thread title reminds me of the idea of casting the log out of one’s own eye before attempting to remove a mote from another’s. And we might remember in the mean time that just like we grew up and necessarily adopted our own views, religious or otherwise, so did the person we attribute limited vision to. So maybe that other person is a mirror, reminding us to check our own prejudices as to what’s “right?”

 

[puzzleannie]

The Catholics look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Pope and his Cardinals in Rome say.

---

What do the forum members think of the agnostics’s comments?

I cannot answer for other faiths
Catholics look at the universe without blinders, without tunnel vision because the look in, with and through the eyes of Jesus Christ, see the universe and see Him as the sum total of Truth about the universe, and about their human condition, which he deigns to share. Catholics look at the universal truth and say, you must believe and accept Jesus Christ, the person, and if you love him, you will want to obey his commands (as he himself has said it.)

 

[Whadyamean]

I cannot answer for other faiths
Catholics look at the universe without blinders, without tunnel vision because the look in, with and through the eyes of Jesus Christ, see the universe and see Him as the sum total of Truth about the universe, and about their human condition, which he deigns to share. Catholics look at the universal truth and say, you must believe and accept Jesus Christ, the person, and if you love him, you will want to obey his commands (as he himself has said it.)

OK, here is a good example, as I see it, of someone using an “allness” proposition, which means taking a statement and distribute it evenly across a group, not allowing for variations. This usage could be an example of a kind of tunnel vision in the sense that I have met “Catholics” who vary widely from one or several of those propositions. Now it might be legitimate to make that statement as an interpretation of what the Church stands for , if it does in exactly that way. But it is much less accurate to claim exactly that perspective for all Catholics as the statement implies.

 

[JRKH]

Yesterday, the neighborhood agnostic made the following comments:​

It just depends on what tunnel of blind faith you want to live in.
The Mormons look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Twelve Apostles in Salt Lake City say.

The Jehovah Witnesses look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in New York City says.

The Catholics look down a tunnel and say that everyone must believe everything the Pope and his Cardinals in Rome say.

You “God-is-here-on-earth-people” are in a check-mate state and have no way out of your tunnels of blind faith.​

What do the forum members think of the agnostics’s comments?

I think that there is some truth to this…I’d have two comments, well questions to ask him in return…

1. What tunnel does he look down?
   and
2. Is there a light at the end of it?

There is at the end of mine - the light of Christ…

Peace
James

 

[JDaniel]

Actually, according to the CNA, the number of the “faithful” has remained pretty steady around 17.3% with growth in Africa and Asia and declining in Europe. (catholicnewsagency.com/news/global_catholic_population_remains_steady_africa_and_asia_continue_growing/)

Faith, manifest as simple habituation by osmosis from one’s family and peers, is a simple condition necessary for survival in one’s “home” group. It becomes obvious as one’s circle of comprehension grows that one’s beliefs, customs, etc, vary, sometimes wildly, from those of others. A part of becoming mature is the growth away from infantile ego and the stages that follow that in spite of the tendency of a mind to argue its particular way as being THE correct world view.

So there is no one, really, who does not have some variation of tunnel vision, even (Oh-my-God!) Catholics. So overcoming tunnel vision of any variety is a matter of maturity and personal growth incumbent on everyone of any derivation, and it is not strictly a religious or secular matter though we might try to narrow it to one of those. We might employ that tunnel vision idea especially when we hear any bit of belief that we do not agree with. But the thread title reminds me of the idea of casting the log out of one’s own eye before attempting to remove a mote from another’s. And we might remember in the mean time that just like we grew up and necessarily adopted our own views, religious or otherwise, so did the person we attribute limited vision to. So maybe that other person is a mirror, reminding us to check our own prejudices as to what’s “right?”

Whadyamean, Whadyamean?

Well, while I agree with that, what I was alluding to was that the majority of growth (which I consider to mean the ascasis of “churched” adherents as opposed to “attritional” adherents. Certain religious denominations grow from “birth rate” alone. Others by what outsiders might think they can benefit from (other than Eternal Life). I think that the Catholic Church’s growth rate is enhanced to a greater degree from conversions. I mean, it’s rather amazing how many thinkers have come to it by conversion. (What that means, I don’t know, but I have my suspicions; and I’ll leave it at that!)

God bless,
jd