The Turks Saved Protestantism

[Montalban]

i think this is off topic a bit. but i get alot of eastern orhtodox resentment thrown at me because of the sack.

Well its known that this so damaged the Empire that it could never recover - leading to it’s conquest by Islam.

the reason why the osuth of italy didnt attack is they did not have much power to do so.

Because they’d been conquered by Normans!

venice and genoa did.

But you said sothern Italians had long memories!

the idea that byzentine was and is allways the forever victim of western aggresion is bogus.

Indeed. I never made that point

i brought these facts up to illustrate that the sack did not happen ina vacume. it wad deserved.

Then why’d the Pope disapprove of it?

as for my irish. yeah i was mistaken as i am new to irish gealic

You could have asked.

so are you MONTALBAN a scotish orthodox? i if you are your the first i met.
and os i have a question would a scotish orthodox football lover support the glasgow celtics–thenhoys or the rangers?
mmmmmm?
i wonder?

I have always liked Celtic.

 

[Brian_C]

That’s you downplaying things again. It wasn’t allegience. It was submission that Rome wanted.

As I’ve pointed out the previous occassions Westerners swore to help us they carved up territory and ran it themselves - as Catholic lands.

And that’s what the Pope wanted - submission.

Yep, it seems like this whole thing would have been avoided had the Eastern Church not been in schism.

That’s the cleverest thing you’ve said. Pity the rest of your posts are made up with mock history, downplaying events, etc.

I particularly like your analogy about the ‘sack’ of Constantinople to being a tiny area equal to Washington DC.

I note you’ve not acknowledged how very wrong you were on that.

Because I’m not. It’s a silly proposition to reduce the tax and population base of an empire to a fraction of what it had been previously and claim it was somehow still thriving. It took Asia Minor to sustain the status quo of the Eastern Empire. The head can’t live without the body. If it hadn’t been for those pesky crusaders.…yeah right.

 

[tacitus]

mountbaten. i am sorry to bager youbut i am very tickled by the idea of who a scotish orhtodox football fan would support.
the celtics or rangers?
also thanks for the hail mary in irish.
and again i speak of sicilian and calabrese and pulegse resentment at the byzentine domination of the adriatic and much of the eastern medeteranian. i am not saying this resentment is due to balesuries under justinian. ig you go to sicily now many places still resent the moors and gosh how long has it been. i know this because my blood is sicilian. and my family after all this time hads a beef with the moors so memories last. just like yours has for a thousand years after this sack i just want to know how it is constructive to hate the roman catholics over 1204 when in the end you deserved it.
but would you support the celtics or rangers?
hope this ofund you well

 

[tacitus]

sorry mountbaten you answered my question when i was typin my reply. thanks celtics it is.
but you know youd be supporting roman catholics. im getting a bit confused.
ever yours to spar with–in christ

 

[Brian_C]

That’s your opinion. I’ve demonstrated your lack of history - especially when you compare the defeat of 1204 to taking a minor part of the USA (area), when in fact they took a major part of the empire; the tactical heart of it

My understanding of history appears equal to your understanding of tactics.

Yeah, why bother. Rome had the right to go in and rip out the guts… it was just a carcass waiting for the scythe of Christian charity to cut through it.
ROFL! Your posts are even more devoid of fact each time.

Oh, it wasn’t Rome, remember? It was a bunch of western crusders, not Rome. You see, this would sorta be like comparing Rome to a Guess Who song about…geesh.

 

[Montalban]

Yep, it seems like this whole thing would have been avoided had the Eastern Church not been in schism.

I agree. Which is why we’re happy that despite the massive destruction caused by the Turks, the Church of Christ as established at Pentecost continues in the east

Because I’m not. It’s a silly proposition to reduce the tax and population base of an empire to a fraction of what it had been previously and claim it was somehow still thriving. It took Asia Minor to sustain the status quo of the Eastern Empire. The head can’t live without the body. If it hadn’t been for those pesky crusaders.…yeah right.

I never said it was still thriving.

Constantinople itself was quite depopulated from two earth-quakes and a plague when it was finally taken. That doesn’t mean it was not important - if it wans’t then the Turks wouldn’t have spent so much time and effort to take it.

Those pesky crusades simply showed how duplicitous the west was.

I’ve not even gone into talking about the martyrs you created when the Latin Kingdom in Constantinople attempted forced conversions.

 

[tacitus]

mountbaten as for sicily being conquered by the normans—they did save our *** and if that was censored our buts form the muslems. not much resentment towards them. personaly in my family the moors have a bad rap. the normans freed us realy an odd thing to say but true.
the great schism brke the church at the spine and made it easy for muslems to get the upper hand. you cant just blame the 1204 sack. if your werent schismatic and disobediant then im sure constantenople would still stand and be just as breathtaking.

 

[Montalban]

mountbaten

I’ve pointed out your spelling of my name incorrectly. You persist. I don’t think you’re doing this by accident/

If you’ve not got the respect to call me by my proper UserName then I have nothing further to say to you.

 

[tacitus]

mantalban it is not purpose. i apologize. i hope you accpet. my fingers get the better of me.
ever yours

 

[tacitus]

again i am sorry it is montalban. i dont know why this has been a trouble fo rme. i hope you accept.
ever yours

 

[Montalban]

mantalban it is not purpose. i apologize. i hope you accpet. my fingers get the better of me.
ever yours

Quite okay then. For me my UserName is very precious

if your werent schismatic and disobediant then im sure constantenople would still stand and be just as breathtaking.

This goes to the point I’m making - the Pope would only help us if we became Catholic

We’d have lost our religion. We made the right choice.

 

[tacitus]

no my friend you didnt. because the choice that was made was a spritual error. you lost both. politicaly and religously.
ever yours

 

[Milliardo]

It’s hard to see how Roman rule could have possibly been worse for Orthodoxy than Turkish rule. But believe it if you want.

I agree with this, though I have much sympathy for Orthodoxy. However, I also fail to see how Catholic rule would have been worse for Orthodoxy. As admitted, Turkish rule nearly destroyed Orthodoxy; Rome’s rule would have kept its numbers, if not its customs. I think that this aversion towards Rome should already be dropped by Orthodoxy. Perhaps Orthodoxy now would be different had Rome took it in, but it would, I presume, keep its numbers as it were, and even added more to it, and not have almost its whole population, as Ridgerunner pointed out, convert to Islam. If anything, coming under Rome would have stopped great numbers of Orthodox going over to Islam.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

This goes to the point I’m making - the Pope would only help us if we became Catholic

We’d have lost our religion. We made the right choice.

Well, then, everything worked out all right then. It’s nice to have a happy ending.

Since you are of another religion we will pray for your conversion.

CDL

 

[Montalban]

A history of east-west relations doesn’t read well.

During the crusades the west established satellite states on eastern lands - culminating in the attack and conquest of Constantinople in 1204 - which lead to many Orthodox Martyrs being made.

We appealed for help from the west in the mid 1400’s but could only acquire this at the expense of our faith.

This goes all the way to the present where you’ve had Marian visions urging the ‘dedication’ (read ‘conversion’) of Russia to Catholicism. To Catholic priests being part of forced conversions of Orthodox during WWII

 

[Montalban]

Well, then, everything worked out all right then. It’s nice to have a happy ending.

Since you are of another religion we will pray for your conversion.

CDL

If you saw someone drowning and were able to help them, but you said “I’ll only help you if you become my slave” - then they just happen to make it ashore and live - you’d say “What are you complaining to me about - you lived!”

No thanks to you.

 

[tacitus]

If you saw someone drowning and were able to help them, but you said “I’ll only help you if you become my slave” - then they just happen to make it ashore and live - you’d say “What are you complaining to me about - you lived!”

No thanks to you.

that is not what happened and you know it. and besides you became slaves to islam. rome would of never treated you like that. its easy to say it would of with no hard evedince compared to all that we know how christians orhtodox and roman catholic and eastern right are treated under islam. to still think life under islamic rule is better is bullever yours

 

[Montalban]

However, I also fail to see how Catholic rule would have been worse for Orthodoxy.

Because Orthodoxy would have ceased to be in those areas!

As admitted, Turkish rule nearly destroyed Orthodoxy;

emphasis on nearly.

Which would you prefer (and you only have these two choices)…?
You have $100

Person A says “I’m going to take all your money”

Person B says “I’m going to take $90”

One is total loss. One is nearly total loss.

Rome’s rule would have kept its numbers, if not its customs. I think that this aversion towards Rome should already be dropped by Orthodoxy.

Customs is not what separates us.

One of the reasons we have this aversion is from comments such as yours and Ridgerunners where you totally don’t get what it is to be Orthodox.

If anything, coming under Rome would have stopped great numbers of Orthodox going over to Islam.

Great numbers, not total!

 

[GregoryPalamas]

If you saw someone drowning and were able to help them, but you said “I’ll only help you if you become my slave” - then they just happen to make it ashore and live - you’d say “What are you complaining to me about - you lived!”

No thanks to you.

No, you seem happy enough. Live with it. Back to prayer.

CDL

 

[tacitus]

how about Pope joh Paul the II’s work in bringing the evel emprie down. dows not that at least say letsmove on. the roman catholic church did much to stop that horrible monster. what did the orhtodox due. i am asking because i dont know. also i have ahard time with so much anamosity comming from orthodox. you are right i dont know what it is lie to be orthodox but alot of this seems to be a smoke screen. it cant surely all be about 1204. is it because orthodoxy is splinteresd into a thousand peices and rome still stands and is growing stronger? there must be room for reprochment. is it not a waste to have so much vehemence towards us.
ever yours