The Two Wills of God: The Decretal Will vs. The Prescriptive Will

[glendab]

…Does Catholicism teach all will be saved?

You believe that invoking “free will” somehow makes your position more palatable.

No. Catholicism doesn’t teach that all will be

 

[glendab]

Hello Counterpoint.

Correction. I am not the one who is proposing that God predestines some individuals for damnation. Paul is. (Apparently, you don’t believe your own scriptures.)

It is true that Peter says that God is not willing that any should perish. But the Calvinist would argue that this refers to God’s prescriptive will, not his decretal will. Also, Peter is speaking to the elect, not the reprobate.

The Calvinist attempts to resolve this apparent contradiction in the Scriptures by proposing two wills. You attempt to resolve this contradiction by pretending that it doesn’t exist. I’m afraid you don’t have that luxury.

Can you please provide the Scriptures that you are referring to. It would help for the sake of this thread.

Thanks.

Glenda

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Proponents would argue that this teaching leads to gratitude, not pride.

St. Paul didn’t think so.

In Romans, he excoriated the Jews for believing that they were saved through the Law out of God’s fiat (very much akin to the Calvanist predestination, except on a national corporate level).

Ro 2:17 ¶ But if you call yourself a Jew and rely upon the law and boast of your relation to God
18 and know his will and approve what is excellent, because you are instructed in the law,
19 and if you are sure that you are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness,
20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of children, having in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth–
21 you then who teach others, will you not teach yourself? While you preach against stealing, do you steal?
22 You who say that one must not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
23 You who boast in the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
24 For, as it is written, “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”
25 Circumcision indeed is of value if you obey the law; but if you break the law, your circumcision becomes uncircumcision.

Then, he turns around and excoriates the Christians for believing that they were saved through Christ out of God’s fiat.

Ro 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!
16 Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,
18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.
19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification.
20 When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death.
22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

No, we are to follow, love, and obey Him by loving each other:
Ro 2:6 For he will render to every man according to his works:
7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;
8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury.

 

[Counterpoint]

Counterpoint:

Proponents would argue that this teaching leads to gratitude, not pride.

St. Paul didn’t think so.

In Romans, he excoriated the Jews for believing that they were saved through the Law out of God’s fiat (very much akin to the Calvanist predestination, except on a national corporate level).

Paul teaches predestination.

“For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.” Romans 8:29