The two witnesses?

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Jerry-Jet said:
So tell me people–why is it that many of the early church fathers thought it would be Elijah and Enoch instead of Elijah and Moses!

Where they mistaken?
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I’m not denying that it is Enoch.

I’m just saying that you can’t discount Moses since he’s not a prophet. He was considered one of the greatest prophets.

And the 365 days, IMO, is coincidence.
 
Jerry-Jet said:
So tell me people–why is it that many of the early church fathers thought it would be Elijah and Enoch instead of Elijah and Moses!

Where they mistaken?
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I’d like to see any quotes refering the two witnesses, because I’m not well versed in the writing of the ECF’s.

Also, the book I’m reading is written with an amillenial view of Revelation, if that makes a difference. (it doesn’t have ECF quotes about the two witnesses)

Peace,

Ryan 🙂
 
According to the footnotes in the NAB version it says
Quote"
11,3: The two witnesses, wearing sackcloth symboizing lamentation and repentance, cannot readily be identified. Do they represnet Moses and Elijah, or the Law and the Prophets, or Peter and Paul? Most probably they refer to the universal church, especially the Christian martyrs, fulfillingthe office of witness(two because of Dt 19, 15; cf Mk 6,7; Jn 8,17).
"Unquote.

Hope that helps!
 
If most people say that the two witnesses will be Elijah and Enoch, how will they return? this is the question that puzzles me. are they going to fall out of the sky or what?
 
AaronsStaff said:
If most people say that the two witnesses will be Elijah and Enoch, how will they return? this is the question that puzzles me. are they going to fall out of the sky or what?
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I would think that they return in spirit! Is that the same as falling out of sky. Well, I lthink that sky represent matter and spirit represent spirit. So, no, however, I still and as others, still reserve the right to argue that it is others, that is other than the prophets Elijah and Enoch.
 
Elijah rode a firey chariot up to heaven–don’t you have enough faith to think that God could get him back down to Earth?

And as far as coming from the sky didn’t an angel tell the disciples immediately after Jesus’ ascension while they were looking up to the sky in an Easterly direction that He would come in like manner as He had left?

Elijah or Enoch coming from the sky is not far fetched!

Will they come that way–I don’t know–but I wouldn’t rule it out!
 
I just found this old thread, as I was doing a search to find out if there have been any Catholic revelations as to who the 2 witnesses in Revelations are.

I’ve had funky stuff going on with me lately, and this morning I was preparing myself in prayer for an important meeting I have today with an elder,and most respected, of the conservative, Eastern Pennsylvania Church to explain to him why I abruptly left them and returned to the Catholic Church. Please pray for his receptiveness to our discussion… Anyway, during prayer I was impressed with the thought that there is going to be a unification of the faith- that the churches are going to merge into two. The protestant churches are going to reunite with the eastern and western branches of the Catholic Church, and these two are going to form the remnant; the two witnesses - and they will be heavily persecuted during the reign of the Antichrist. They will be full of the Holy Spirit and, unlike what we see today with so much lukewarness and indifference among its members, they will be zealous, faithful and pious - true witness of the faith.
 
I really hope and pray that you will fully enter into communion with the one true Catholic religion and that your faith will be strengthened and nourished in the years to come.
The book being discussed on the other threads at the moment - “is www 666 in Hebrew?” and “the woman and the dragon” has a good section on a Catholic interpretation of the Two Witnesses. O’Regan shows how the prophecy of the Two Witnesses may be linked with the future martyr-pope prophesied by various saints and visionairies - such as in the Third Secret of Fatima and the secrets of La Salette, and the prophecy of the Great Catholic Monarch. He states that these individuals will be styled after Moses and Elijah - that is they will come in the spirit and power of these OT prophets (in the same way John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah), but will not be actual physical reappearances of them. O’Regan argues that these individuals will ignite the Second Penecost, or spiritual revival promised before the end of the world. He ties together the prophecies of Fatima, La Salette and St John Bosco’s dream of the Two Pillars, and relates them to the prophecy of the Two Witnesses in the Book of Revelation. He also notes how St Malachy’s prophecies of the popes calls the second last pope “the glorious olive”, (who is equated with Benedict XVI) and suggests that this ties in with the description of the Two Witnesses as the “two olive trees” that stand before the throne of God.
 
doulos33 said:
I really hope and pray that you will fully enter into communion with the one true Catholic religion and that your faith will be strengthened and nourished in the years to come.
The book being discussed on the other threads at the moment - “is www 666 in Hebrew?” and “the woman and the dragon” has a good section on a Catholic interpretation of the Two Witnesses. O’Regan shows how the prophecy of the Two Witnesses may be linked with the future martyr-pope prophesied by various saints and visionairies - such as in the Third Secret of Fatima and the secrets of La Salette, and the prophecy of the Great Catholic Monarch. He states that these individuals will be styled after Moses and Elijah - that is they will come in the spirit and power of these OT prophets (in the same way John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah), but will not be actual physical reappearances of them. O’Regan argues that these individuals will ignite the Second Penecost, or spiritual revival promised before the end of the world. He ties together the prophecies of Fatima, La Salette and St John Bosco’s dream of the Two Pillars, and relates them to the prophecy of the Two Witnesses in the Book of Revelation. He also notes how St Malachy’s prophecies of the popes calls the second last pope “the glorious olive”, (who is equated with Benedict XVI) and suggests that this ties in with the description of the Two Witnesses as the “two olive trees” that stand before the throne of God.
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Wow, that’s amazing.

I did return to the Catholic Church - 3 weeks ago - and I was totally led, kicking and screaming, and have been led into some other things I did not want to do either. I was told that I was going to bring the Eucharist to the Mennonite Church, and today I am meeting with one of its most respected and influential elder; a man and his wife in their 80s who are very faithful and devout and (sometimes…)open-minded.

Please pray for the Mennonite Church and pray for me today that I will find the right words. Pray for the Holy Spirit to soften and open their hearts to the truth. Pray for the unification of all churches into the One True Faith.

Pax~
 
There are many different layers to prophecies such as this however, and the interpretation that you offer here may also be of some relevance. The woman adorned by the sun also represents the Church as well as the Virgin Mary. The Protestant Churches are after all a schimatic branch of Western Catholicism, and many various prophecies foretell they will be reunited with the Catholic Church. O’Regan notes several prophecies stating that this will begin with the conversion of England, such as those of St Edward the Confessor and the orignal 1846 version of the prophecy of La Salette which I’ll quote below:

On September 19, 1846, we saw a beautiful Lady. We never said that this lady was the Blessed Virgin but we always said that it was a beautiful Lady. I do not know if it is the Blessed Virgin or another person. As for me, I believe today that it is the Blessed Virgin. Here is what this Lady said to me:
“If my people continue, what I will say to you will arrive earlier, if it changes a little, it will be a little later. France has corrupted the universe, one day it will be punished. The faith will die out in France: three quarters of France will not practice religion anymore, or almost no more, the other part will practice it without really practicing it. Then, after [that], nations will convert, the faith will be rekindled everywhere. A great country, now Protestant, in the north of Europe, will be converted; by the support of this country all the other nations of the world will be converted.

There are also various prophecies of the Angelic Pope, who is prophesied to restore communion between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox. If Protestantism was to come back into the fold, then it would into the Western Rite, while the Eastern rite would mantain its own traditions in much the same way they did before the Great Schism of 1054. So in this metaphoric sense they would be the two witnesses, who in a different layer of interpretation could also refer to individuals.
 
Wow, that’s is interesting.

We love to visit our local LaSalette Shrine. That is where I made my confession when I returned to the church. Never knew much about the prophesies though.
 
pardon me for butting in, but I still think that a spiritual interpretation of Scripture and Tradition, the Written and Oral words, is more epic and meaningful. For 2000 years, the heretics and others have attacked the witness of the Church in Scripture and Tradition. When you attempt to deny [attack/harm] any truth from Scripture or Tradition, which is Church doctrine, the spiritual harm comes back on you. For the truths of God are meant to assist in our redemption. When we misunderstand God, we are placing obstacles between us and God, and that is spiritually harmful.

But today, we have a beast of secular apostasy, that has “killed” Scripture and Tradition. The world no longer fears them in any sense. They are like dead, lying in the streets, not even given a respectful burial. The world sends gifts to one another that they don’t need to care about religion in ANY sense.

But in the coming chastisement, the world will begin to fear God again, and His Revelation. And when it is through, as Christians reunite, the Two Witnesses of Scripture and Tradition will be VINDICATED, assumed into heaven figuratively. Then shall Our Lady’s Peace reign and the unitive way be attained.

See how the Two Witnesses “illumine” the Church, but the killing of them is like a dark night.

So then their assumption is like the renewal, the “unitive” way of the Church.

😃
 
spauline said:
pardon me for butting in, but I still think that a spiritual interpretation of Scripture and Tradition, the Written and Oral words, is more epic and meaningful. For 2000 years, the heretics and others have attacked the witness of the Church in Scripture and Tradition. When you attempt to deny [attack/harm] any truth from Scripture or Tradition, which is Church doctrine, the spiritual harm comes back on you. For the truths of God are meant to assist in our redemption. When we misunderstand God, we are placing obstacles between us and God, and that is spiritually harmful.

But today, we have a beast of secular apostasy, that has “killed” Scripture and Tradition. The world no longer fears them in any sense. They are like dead, lying in the streets, not even given a respectful burial. The world sends gifts to one another that they don’t need to care about religion in ANY sense.

But in the coming chastisement, the world will begin to fear God again, and His Revelation. And when it is through, as Christians reunite, the Two Witnesses of Scripture and Tradition will be VINDICATED, assumed into heaven figuratively. Then shall Our Lady’s Peace reign and the unitive way be attained.

See how the Two Witnesses “illumine” the Church, but the killing of them is like a dark night.

So then their assumption is like the renewal, the “unitive” way of the Church.

😃
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Are you saying that you don’t believe the unity of the churches will form the two witnesses b/c there are doctrinal differences? Maybe there won’t be doctrinal differences anymore.

Regardless, I don’t know how it would happen, I only know that I feel like it has been suggested to me. And I don’t know much of anything, so, it’s not my opinion 🤷
 
spauline said:
pardon me for butting in, but I still think that a spiritual interpretation of Scripture and Tradition, the Written and Oral words, is more epic and meaningful. For 2000 years, the heretics and others have attacked the witness of the Church in Scripture and Tradition. When you attempt to deny [attack/harm] any truth from Scripture or Tradition, which is Church doctrine, the spiritual harm comes back on you. For the truths of God are meant to assist in our redemption. When we misunderstand God, we are placing obstacles between us and God, and that is spiritually harmful.

But today, we have a beast of secular apostasy, that has “killed” Scripture and Tradition. The world no longer fears them in any sense. They are like dead, lying in the streets, not even given a respectful burial. The world sends gifts to one another that they don’t need to care about religion in ANY sense.

But in the coming chastisement, the world will begin to fear God again, and His Revelation. And when it is through, as Christians reunite, the Two Witnesses of Scripture and Tradition will be VINDICATED, assumed into heaven figuratively. Then shall Our Lady’s Peace reign and the unitive way be attained.

See how the Two Witnesses “illumine” the Church, but the killing of them is like a dark night.

So then their assumption is like the renewal, the “unitive” way of the Church.

😃
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Btw, love your signature 😉
 
WatchfulPilgrim said:
Will you please pray to her for the healing of my father in law, Richard? He is in the last stages of cancer - close to death.
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Yes, right now:

O, blessed Kateri, you suffered much in the last times of your passing. but then, by a miracle of God, all the deficiencies in thy face that had been with thee since childhood vanished, and your beauty shown.

We ask thee to ask Jesus, thy Savior and Ours, that if God wills it, to heal Richard, and if not, to give him supernatural beauty so that he will assume into heaven immediately. We ask this through your precious heart’s interceding, with Love of Jesus in us All.

Amen!
:gopray: :gopray: :gopray:
 
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