The ugly person I become

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rayne89

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…when I have to deal with my mother.
I’ve had many posts about my mom.The most recent one here. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=10917911#post10917911
I called my mom today to let her know a book I ordered that she wanted came and I would drop by later and give it to her. No matter the countless times I have told her to keep me out of her and my dad’s problems we ended up there -again. With the the intertwining of me in there just to make it not completely about just him. When I was a teen I would full on fight with her, complete screaming matches because of all the blame she cast on me, all the twisted lies that came out of her disturbed brain.

And then as I grew older I began taking the higher road -most of the time. I have told her over and over to leave the past alone, I’ve tried to make peace with it, I’ve forgiven her -I just don’t want to go there anymore. Well lately (last two-three weeks) when she starts bringing up my supposed “sins” from the past -like her perception that I always sided with my dad, that I was always was against her. Well I’ve begun giving it right back. I actually say “Ok mom, I’ve told you to stay out of the past but if you want to go there, we’ll go there…” and I start repeating all the awful things she said to me. At one point when I told her she told me I was good for nothing. She replied “All mothers tell their children they are good for nothing sometimes.” In a tone like it was no big deal. I responded (rather astounded) I’ve never told my daughter she is good for nothing! (My daughter just graduated high school and she is the light of my life.)

Today went the same way -I just dish it right back. It doesn’t help, I know it doesn’t. I know it won’t change her one bit. Sadly…I feel a little relieved just dumping it back on her. I know its not right, I know its not productive -its certainly not Christian. I’m just tired of it all, tired of taking the high road. Today when she tried to blame problems in the marriage on me from stuff I did as a kid. I kept repeated “Its not my fault” “Its not my fault” “You are not going to blame me anymore” “Its not my fault.” Over and over, while she was trying to talk. Then she went with "Well you are getting too upset, the reason I don’t like to talk about this with you is because I worry about your heart, I don’t want anything to happen to you. You get too upset when we talk, I don’t want any drama (drama is her knew favorite word -she’s never used that word before up until the last 10 days or so -must have heard on TV) I responded “Don’t do that, I’m too smart for that mom, I’m a smart girl.” She kept going on about she was concerned for my health starting to sound teary eyed. And I just repeated. “You are not fooling me mom. I’m a smart girl.” Not knowing how to respond she went for full on guilt on how alone she was, how she prays to God everyday, everyday she prays to God… and I put my ear away from the phone, checking every once in a while to see if she was done talking. When there was finally a silence I told I was going to go now and said goodbye.

In every other area of my life I am not this person. This very angry person. I know its a mental illness, I know she’s irrational. I was doing so good for so long. And now I’m back to full on absolutely ****** off. (I self edited) She’s 84 if I haven’t been able to cut her out of my life by now, I know I will not do it now. Sometimes I feel like I will only have peace when she passes away -which makes me feel awful and guilty for even thinking it. I figure it a cross God is using to help me grow in holiness or patience -something, but I’m not -at least not right now. I hate the person I become when I have to deal with her. Its ugly, its embarrassing -and I let her get to me. I felt like I was going to cry when I got off the phone. 😦
 
rayne89 said:
…when I have to deal with my mother.
I’ve had many posts about my mom.The most recent one here. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=10917911#post10917911
I called my mom today to let her know a book I ordered that she wanted came and I would drop by later and give it to her. No matter the countless times I have told her to keep me out of her and my dad’s problems we ended up there -again. With the the intertwining of me in there just to make it not completely about just him. When I was a teen I would full on fight with her, complete screaming matches because of all the blame she cast on me, all the twisted lies that came out of her disturbed brain.

And then as I grew older I began taking the higher road -most of the time. I have told her over and over to leave the past alone, I’ve tried to make peace with it, I’ve forgiven her -I just don’t want to go there anymore. Well lately (last two-three weeks) when she starts bringing up my supposed “sins” from the past -like her perception that I always sided with my dad, that I was always was against her. Well I’ve begun giving it right back. I actually say “Ok mom, I’ve told you to stay out of the past but if you want to go there, we’ll go there…” and I start repeating all the awful things she said to me. At one point when I told her she told me I was good for nothing. She replied “All mothers tell their children they are good for nothing sometimes.” In a tone like it was no big deal. I responded (rather astounded) I’ve never told my daughter she is good for nothing! (My daughter just graduated high school and she is the light of my life.)

Today went the same way -I just dish it right back. It doesn’t help, I know it doesn’t. I know it won’t change her one bit. Sadly…I feel a little relieved just dumping it back on her. I know its not right, I know its not productive -its certainly not Christian. I’m just tired of it all, tired of taking the high road. Today when she tried to blame problems in the marriage on me from stuff I did as a kid. I kept repeated “Its not my fault” “Its not my fault” “You are not going to blame me anymore” “Its not my fault.” Over and over, while she was trying to talk. Then she went with "Well you are getting too upset, the reason I don’t like to talk about this with you is because I worry about your heart, I don’t want anything to happen to you. You get too upset when we talk, I don’t want any drama (drama is her knew favorite word -she’s never used that word before up until the last 10 days or so -must have heard on TV) I responded “Don’t do that, I’m too smart for that mom, I’m a smart girl.” She kept going on about she was concerned for my health starting to sound teary eyed. And I just repeated. “You are not fooling me mom. I’m a smart girl.” Not knowing how to respond she went for full on guilt on how alone she was, how she prays to God everyday, everyday she prays to God… and I put my ear away from the phone, checking every once in a while to see if she was done talking. When there was finally a silence I told I was going to go now and said goodbye.

In every other area of my life I am not this person. This very angry person. I know its a mental illness, I know she’s irrational. I was doing so good for so long. And now I’m back to full on absolutely ****** off. (I self edited) She’s 84 if I haven’t been able to cut her out of my life by now, I know I will not do it now. Sometimes I feel like I will only have peace when she passes away -which makes me feel awful and guilty for even thinking it. I figure it a cross God is using to help me grow in holiness or patience -something, but I’m not -at least not right now. I hate the person I become when I have to deal with her. Its ugly, its embarrassing -and I let her get to me. I felt like I was going to cry when I got off the phone. 😦
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You’ve probably been advised to do this by others, but IMHO, you should disconnect all contact with her. She obviously isn’t mentally capable of understanding anything other than her own needs, so you simply can’t expect her to be reasonable. Simply tell her you love her but that you can’t see her for any reason. And then stick to your resolve not to get involved in her life. You don’t have to take this kind of abuse from her just because she’s your mother. Let her go to let her live her life in her own little world and be at peace about it. Only God, her own desire to change and professional help could help her. You can’t do it, so don’t do it. That’s my advice to you, dear sister in Christ. :console: It’s hard to have to break relations with a mother, but for your sanity and even for her own good, I think it might be best.
 
I just had a similar conversation with my mother because I wasn’t able to “fix her computer” over the phone as I was driving down the freeway. (I actually don’t think she wanted help. I think she wanted me to tell her she needs and deserves a new computer.) I suggest just saying, “Sorry I can’t talk right now. Bye”, and hanging up the phone. You have to preserve your sanity as a well. I have no intention of cutting my mother out of my life either, though I’m fine with cutting her out of my day if she gets out of hand.
 
Allegra said:
I just had a similar conversation with my mother because I wasn’t able to “fix her computer” over the phone as I was driving down the freeway. (I actually don’t think she wanted help. I think she wanted me to tell her she needs and deserves a new computer.) I suggest just saying, “Sorry I can’t talk right now. Bye”, and hanging up the phone. You have to preserve your sanity as a well. I have no intention of cutting my mother out of my life either, though I’m fine with cutting her out of my day if she gets out of hand.
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This seems to be a good method to use. DH has a…let’s say…challenging mother. He says he does what charity requires of him as a son, but he will not be sucked into the games. When she gets out of line he says “Bye for now.” She doesn’t pull so much nonsense anymore since he started doing this. I’ll say a prayer that things improve.
 
I think you should talk with a priest about totally cutting off communications with her, but what I’d recommend if you are serious about not cutting her out of your life is to leave/hang up whenever she starts up. Just the moment you see it approaching, say, opps, gotta run! and off you go. If she call later to complain, oops, you gotta run! and off you go.

Just do this everytime she starts, right off the bat. I had to do this with my mother about a certain topic, and I only had to do it once. But my mother is not completely crazy.

But please, for your sanity and spiritual understanding, I think you should discuss this with a good priest.
 
Reading about such relationships puts me in mind of C. S. Lewis’ “The Great Divorce” in which souls have the choice of entering heaven or hell after meeting with loved ones who have gone before them. One case was very much like the OP’s. The husband’s soul had been taken over by a bad actor avatar that he spoke through. He demanded his wife, now resplendent with glory should suffer for his sake because he demanded it as the price of her love for him. IOW, her happiness should be held hostage to his selfishness. As hard as she can she tries to persuade him to give up his pride and be happy with her. I’ll let you read the book for the outcome, but it’s so true that there are people who demand that we bow and scrape for them while having no consideration for us at all. They have become toxic in their selfishness and no amount of persuasion will move them. They need to be left to realize this on their own while we pray for them because that is the only treatment that might bring them around. It’s radical surgery for the soul, but sometimes it’s necessary.
 
Della said:
Reading about such relationships puts me in mind of C. S. Lewis’ “The Great Divorce” in which souls have the choice of entering heaven or hell after meeting with loved ones who have gone before them. One case was very much like the OP’s. The husband’s soul had been taken over by a bad actor avatar that he spoke through. He demanded his wife, now resplendent with glory should suffer for his sake because he demanded it as the price of her love for him. IOW, her happiness should be held hostage to his selfishness. As hard as she can she tries to persuade him to give up his pride and be happy with her. I’ll let you read the book for the outcome, but it’s so true that there are people who demand that we bow and scrape for them while having no consideration for us at all. They have become toxic in their selfishness and no amount of persuasion will move them. They need to be left to realize this on their own while we pray for them because that is the only treatment that might bring them around. It’s radical surgery for the soul, but sometimes it’s necessary.
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👍
I love CS Lewis and “The Great Divorce” is well worth the read.
Mary.
 
Dearest Rayne…wanna know about “ugly”? It would take me about three hours by phone to describe to you how I failed as a daughter, as a Christian, as a lover of the Lord, when my “mother” (hard to call her that) lived with me and my daughter (who was rapidly failing from a mental illness that ended in her death) lived with her from May 2007 until November 2009 when I finally prevailed on Social Services to come into my home and find a reason to remove her. Know what that was? She had fallen, broken her wrist, refused to tell me, because she preferred to die IN MY HOUSE, even knowing (because she was there when the ambulances and cops came for my kid several times) that my child was mentally ill. Social services took her to the ER because of the broken wrist (thereby freeing me, I was under no legal obligation to allow her back into my house). ER Doctor CALLED ME. He said she had FULL HEART BLOCK and didn’t understand why she was still alive. I had her health care proxy, she was refusing the pacemaker, I went to the hospital to sign the form to allow it. I spoke to the surgeon before signing, I wanted to know what is THE HUMANE THING TO DO, and he said put in the pacemaker. So they did. Before they did, she said to me “You have made the last two years of my life a living hell”. I answered, “You have been given a gift from God, to live longer (she was 94), and are these the last words you want to say to your only child?” Well, they were. She never spoke to me again.

Borderline personality disorder, at least, and I suffered 20 adult years of errors and psychotherapy to be the person I really was, and not the person I had to “put on” to deal with Mae, my biological mother.

Do you just walk away? I don’t think so. So then, what do you do? The best you can. I prayed. I begged God to help me. My anger at what her behavior was when I needed a mother and had none was too great. She had a home, she was fed well, she got psychiatric care and medical care, I dispensed her medication every day because she couldn’t be trusted. But what I remember, and always will (along with many, many very very bad memories) is what happened the day my daughter was first hospitalized for attempted suicide (overdose of Paxil). Mae knew, cops were there, ambulance was there, I was beyond distraught and ready for the psych ward myself. That first night I sent my neighbor and friend in to give her dinner because I always gave her dinner at 5PM. She didn’t ask him how I was. She didn’t ask him how my daughter was or what was happening. SHE ASKED HIM FOR A COOKIE, FOR SOMETHING SWEET.

Each of us must stand before God and in that millionth of a second every single thing we’ve ever done, said, thought, etc. will be before us like a movie, a horror movie for some. You do your best. Hopefully, you do better than I did because I feel I failed that test. And you leave the rest up to God.
 
My mother is a narcissist. I had a very difficult childhood because of her. We do talk but it’s on my terms. That’s the only way to preserve one’s sanity. I refuse to feel guilty because I am at least here as she ages. She knows the rules of our relationship and does okay. Once narcissists see they can’t manipulate you, you are then in control. Don’t feel guilty about setting boundaries. They will save you.
Maybe more prayers would help. I certainly obtain much-needed patience with prayers.
Offer this cross up to Jesus but stand your ground.
 
It sounds like many of us are in the same boat.

I’ve posted here often enough about my family. After a last attempt to be a better daughter, in which my mother groused endlessly and found fault with others, and told me I deserved someone else’s unkindness toward me, I simply didn’t pick up the phone again. In the four or five years since, she has not called me once. She ignores me at church. I have since divorced my husband as a result of years of infidelity, abuses, backstabbing, money disappearing, and more. Neither of my parents has checked in once to see how I’m doing–rather, my mother is telling people at my church that I imagine things. :confused: When my daughter was in the hospital for two weeks last year, and I was going between work and home every day for two weeks, neither of them called or offered to check in on the younger boys, left to fend largely for themselves. 😦

I could go on.

But…I foresaw, about five years ago, that I was either going to hold my tongue in the face of ugly behavior aimed at me–which was slowly destroying me and sending a very bad message to my kids, or become a person I didn’t like by getting down in the dirt to fight back. I chose walking away. They’re not happy with me over it. There continue to be problems. But I feel I’m much more at peace, and my entire view of God has changed (improved) since doing so.
 
My tack with a family member like this to say, “Yep. You’re right. I’m awful. I must be the worst person you know. Your life would be perfect without me. I don’t know how you can stand to be around me. It must be terrible for you.”

That works with people who have nothing worse than a loss of perspective and a bad habit of making a catastrophe where there is none. They can wake up and realize they’re being ridiculous, or at least that you are not going to play their game.

A mentally-ill person is another matter. Sometimes they don’t have the equipment for a normal give-and-take relationship. They can have caretakers to deal with them who do not take their ridiculous attacks to heart, but with those who are really vulnerable to them, it just doesn’t work. If their family can’t ignore their jabs or chalk them up to illness, there is no help for it but to cut off contact.

I’d not presume to tell you which one your mother is. If you can’t help but conclude she is the latter, then restrict your contact as much as you have to in order to maintain yourself. If you stick the Easter Bunny in a cage and poke it with a stick enough times, it will bite you. Don’t expect yourself to be superhuman. Do what you can do, but then give yourself permission to get out of the arena, even if that means cutting off all contact entirely. Jesus split the scene when they were trying to stone him. If it isn’t your day, it isn’t your day. Get out of the stone storm.
 
EasterJoy said:
My tack with a family member like this to say, “Yep. You’re right. I’m awful. I must be the worst person you know. Your life would be perfect without me. I don’t know how you can stand to be around me. It must be terrible for you.”
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👍 Good idea.

rayne89,

I am so sorry that you have to deal with this.
:hug3:
 
I can sympathize with the problem of becoming someone “ugly” when the right buttons are pushed from your past. This happens to me with my mother as well, although not to the same degree as in your situation.

I don’t know about cutting her out of your life completely. I don’t feel prepared to decide if that is right for you or not. I would have a hard time doing that, at her age in particular. And I see that you are not of the mind to go to that length either. So I’ll stick with my thoughts on how to cope with having her in your life.
rayne89 said:
…No matter the countless times I have told her to keep me out of her and my dad’s problems we ended up there -again…I have told her over and over to leave the past alone,
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The first thing that jumps out at me is that you have TRIED repeatedly not to engage her arguments, but that your efforts did not really disengage you. For example, telling her countless times to leave the past alone or to keep you out of her problems with your Dad, IS actually arguing with her. So really, when you speak to her that way, you are actually communicating that you do want to talk about it on some level - or that’s the message that a person with no sense of boundaries gets. A more effective way to disengage is to say, “I am not going to talk about that,” and then to not say a single word more on the subject, or to simply say, “well, I’ve got to go. Good bye,” and then immediately leave.
rayne89 said:
When there was finally a silence I told I was going to go now and said goodbye.
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So you have done this somewhat - but you waited much to long to get out. I would suggest that to maintain your sanity, you need to do it sooner. As soon as you get the hint that the conversation is heading that way, it is time to go. If you’re on the phone, you don’t have to wait for a space in the conversation. You can interrupt, you can talk over her and loudly say, “I am not going to talk about this” or “I have to go” and you can just hang up. Same thing in person - once you have established the rule that you are no longer going to talk about ___, you don’t need warnings and polite pauses. You just walk out of the room, or the house. The result may be that you drastically limit your interactions with her, but it doesn’t have to be a full “cutting out of your life.” If you want to still check in with her, and do little things for her you can. If all you can do is drop off the book, and have small talk about the weather for 30 seconds at the door, then that is all you should do. Set the standard for yourself that the only way you will keep her from dragging you into it is by refusing to have any conversations other than shallow ones. If you are with her and the conversation even starts to head to anything more serious than small talk, steer it back to small talk or leave the situation. So the idea is that you don’t have to cut off the relationship, but you may have to stunt it.
 
www.gettinbetter.com

Lots of good articles. I have a sister that has got to be a narcissist. She is a bully, and loves drama. I can’t be around her any more after she pulled the last straw a couple of years ago.
She’s my sister, I love her, and forgive her the just and craziness she pulled in the past, but I don’t have to allow her to continue her abuse me.

It’s harder with a mother, I’m sure. And being so elderly makes it difficult too.
If you could see her problem as the illness it is you might find it easier. It is the illness talking not her. Think about it as if she had had a stroke or something similar. That will change personality sometimes. Maybe that sort of thinking can get you through. When she is no longer with you you can relax and enjoy the memories of the good times you did have, and forget the bad that her troubles made her inflict on you.

God bless.
 
So much of this sounds like the relationship I had with my mother. I did finally cut off communication with her about 18 months before she died at 87. I had been her primary caregiver for many years but the controlling and abusive behavior as well as the baggage of the past, she was always verbally abusive, physically abusive when I was a child, and was an adulteress who neglected my sisters and I.
I never felt really free until she died.
Search for narcisstic personality disorder on this forum and elsewhere. You will find that you are certainly not alone.
If you can’t cut her off, really reduce contact. (Which is how I ended up cutting my mom off. Reducing contact for my mental and physical health, which was breaking down, made her so mad she couldn’t be dealt with at all.)
Good luck
 
I am also sorry to hear about your problems with your mother. I hope you can find a solution that works for you.
Mine was to move 1000 miles away.

So sad that so many of us had and do have issues with our moms.
 
I want to thank you all for your suggestions, your stories and your prayers. Its been a crazy busy last few days. I will get back on and reply more thoroughly in a little bit. I just wanted to thank you all! :grouphug:
 
I have no advice but wanted to post to let you all know I will be praying for everyone on this thread.
 
ellzeena said:
Dearest Rayne…wanna know about “ugly”? It would take me about three hours by phone to describe to you how I failed as a daughter, as a Christian, as a lover of the Lord, when my “mother” (hard to call her that) lived with me and my daughter (who was rapidly failing from a mental illness that ended in her death) lived with her from May 2007 until November 2009 when I finally prevailed on Social Services to come into my home and find a reason to remove her.
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Ellzeena I am so, so sorry for the loss of your daughter. You did not fail as a daughter, your mother failed as a mother. My mom has Paranoid Personality Disorder. Not diagnosed but I can check off nearly every diagnostic sign. And I gone on psych forums where family member talk of experiences with PPD people and they could have been talking about my mom the descriptions are so exact. Thank you for sharing your painful story. I’m so sorry you had to go through that. ((hugs))
 
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