The umpteenth Dark Night of the Soul thread

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Tis_Bearself

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Thank you to all who provided enlightening comments on my “detachment from creatures” thread. I now have another topic that I as a Bear of Little Brain find a bit baffling: the Dark Night of the Soul. I have read a number of websites on this concept originally set forth by St. John of the Cross (who always seems to me to be on a different planet compared with his friend, the mystical but still practical St. Teresa of Avila) and also skimmed the 15 or so past CAF threads on this topic. I’m still a bit confused.

Some people seem to be using the term to refer to some period of general doubts about some aspect of God, or some period of melancholy abut faith that may actually be clinical depression. Still others call it a spiritual crisis whereby God who has given you consolations and such in the past suddenly goes silent for a while. Some say this happens as a result of some big life event such as a loved one’s death and involves you thinking God isn’t there or just doesn’t care about you. Some call it an “existential crisis” whatever that is. My knowledge of existentialism is limited to being forced to read The Stranger for high school English, a book that I and everyone else thought was kind of stupid, but it was supposed to be cool as it was associated with impeccably dressed hip French intellectuals wasting all day at the street cafe, sort of like Kerouac meets “Breathless”.

Some say that everybody has to go through a Dark Night of the Soul to grow spiritually, and others say it is something special that only really developed souls who are super close to God get, making it sound like those devils who physically showed up in the rooms of top mystic saints and had to be fought off all night or have holy water thrown to get rid of them.

After reading all this, I’m still not sure
  • what exactly a Dark Night of the Soul is
  • whether I need to have one in order to grow spiritually
  • whether I already had one and just didn’t realize
  • whether I am too dim to have one and they’re only for really gifted saints
  • how I would know I was having one if it happened to show up
  • what these “consolations” are that God gives and takes away
  • why this whole concept seems so varyingly interpreted instead of just being set forth in a handy pamphlet called “The Dark Night of the Soul: What Catholics Need to Know.”
I doubted God over something for a few days back in 1986 but I resolved the issue in my mind and it went away. I have never had clinical depression and when I do feel sad or low it’s almost always related to hormonal imbalance or anemia, so I pop some iron pills and within a few days it goes away. When my loved ones have died, I’ve had what seems to be a normal grief process, but I don’t remember any such deaths triggering a big spiritual crisis in me. People die, and the deaths weren’t unexpected. So none of these things would seem to be Dark Nights of the Soul. I have also read that having hardships in life like illness, job loss etc that might cause feelings of frustration with or distance from God aren’t Dark Nights of the Soul.

Anyone got any practical experiences or insights on Dark Nights of the Soul?
 
That one does seem to cover all the bases. It also takes a very broad approach to what the Dark Night is and says it could be different for different people.

By that article, the Dark Night could be any big stumbling block that makes us significantly struggle with our relationship with God or question Him, and results in a profound change in our own spirituality.

On the one hand, the definition is a bit unsatisfying in its breadth, but on the other hand, it makes good sense that not everyone would experience this big challenge in the same way. I can see it being a doctrinal doubt for one person, a repeated struggle with sin for someone else, and a feeling of the absence of “good feelings” of God’s presence for a third person. Some people have few or no doctrinal doubts, some do not get or rely on “good feelings” of consolation from God, so in those cases the person could probably not experience that type of Dark Night.
 
We also have to remember the context of when it was written originally.
Living as he did, St John would have a much more morose view than most of us living ordinary lives.
It’s a very difficult book to get through, and my Spiritual Director says that this work, much like Imitation of Christ is not for everyone. There are MANY wonderful writings that the average person can’t adequately comprehend, at least in the manner that it was intended.
In that respect, yeah, I think the author does a good job. Dark NIght is one of those phrases that gets tossed about.
 
I have not been able to read Imitation of Christ because I get too distracted by feeling sad about poor Thomas a Kempis waking up in the coffin and being unable to be canonized as a result. We were told that story in Catholic school, it was just horrifying. If there’s ever a case where God would give a good person mitigation for some thought or act, I would think waking up buried in a coffin would be that case.
 
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The Collected Works of Edith Stein
VI THE SCIENCE OF THE CROSS Edith Stein
Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross
Discalced Carmelite

Stein, Edith. The Science of the Cross (The Collected Works of Edith Stein Vol. 6) (Kindle Locations 3-4). ICS Publications. Kindle Edition.
 
For me the Dark Night of the Soul had everything to do with my ego. My ego had to go. I always thought I had to do everything myself and that only I could do things right. Then everything in my life started going wrong and I had no control to stop it. God told me specifically that he had to destroy me. Now, for most humans that is an awful thing for God to say - “that I will destroy you.” And when God told me that, I was quite mad. Why? Why destroy me? What did I do? I kept the commandments, I tried to be the best person I knew how to be. However I never really knew God. My ego was in the way.

So I went through an awful period of loss and loneliness even from God. But then it got to a point where there was nothing left to lose, except the ego. Now, I know I never have to do anything on my own again. I have no control over anything in this life. It’s in God’s hands, always was. Now, every day God and I chat over the most mundane things. I never would have done that in the past. My ego was too strong back then, it had no time to talk with God about anything.

Did I go through the Dark Night of the Soul? Sure felt like it. Did I emerge from it? I don’t believe totally. There are days when I feel like I’m back in it. That’s when my ego kicks back in and says “you better get moving in your life, sitting there praying and waiting will get you nowhere!” But then I look at my past and see that my ego has to go. My ego has never made my life better, while relying on God has always made my life better.
 
Dark night of the soul is not receiving intellectual consolations/recollections through prayer and virtuous works, in the same manner they were acquired in the past. Intellectual consolations come from us reaching to God and then the consolations stop coming during a Dark night.

The saints write that it’s in preparation for infused recollection/ contemplation which comes directly from God reaching to us, directly into our soul, without intellectual action on our part.

In order to discern this however, a spiritual director is required most times.

Personally, i find St.John of the Cross and St.Teresa uses different verbiage to explain essentially the same thing, yet it’s hard to articulate. You can also read mansion 3 through to the mystical mansions, 4 and beyond.
 
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Look for my thread some time in the future entitled “What the heck does a spiritual director do anyway?”

I realize lots of people and many great saints have had them, but this concept to me is like it just landed from Mars.
 
I like how your mind works. You are very thoughtful. I’ve just read your initial post so far. I would start by saying that many persons may think they know what “dark night of the soul” is but I assert that they do not- not as Saint John of the Cross defined it, anyways.

DNS (dark night of the soul) is something that few souls go through. It is a high phase or state of transition in the spiritual life and it is a grace from God that we do not attain to of our own efforts.

For those familiar with the three stages of the spiritual life: the purgative, illuminative, and the unitive, I think it’s between the illuminative and the unitive.

I personally am not convinced that most persons need to read Dark Night of the Soul. It’s hard to understand, I think, unless a person is somewhat already well versed in the spiritual life. This is just my opinion, of course. I think an educated Carmelite is always a good person to ask about the DNS.

Those are just my off the cuff, first thoughts. I myself like to read another book he wrote called Ascent of Mount Carmel. It describes the dark night of the senses, which is something that necessarily must come before the dark night of the soul. This book, the Ascent, deals alot with the necessity of detachment, etc.

(It’s possible that if you asked @nunsense, she could help answer some questions for you. She has a lot of background in Carmelite Spirituality, I believe.)

As Clare points out, it’s a phrase that gets thrown about alot. (incorrectly) The problem is that the phrase can mean different things to different people, but it has a precise meaning that is substantially different from how most people understand and use the phrase.
 
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Nunsense is not going to try to explain the Dark Night of the Soul to anyone. If Carmelite spirituality is your focus, then by all means read all of John’s works as well as several very good ones that try to expand on them, especially, as mentioned, The Science of the Cross by Edith Stein (St Teresa Bendicta of the Cross). There are some quite good books by Father Iaian Matthews OCD, especially The Impact of God. He also wrote a very excellent doctoral thesis on whether or not Jesus went through the Dark Night but I am not sure it was published for the public. I read it while in the convent.

Personally, I think there is way too much focus on the Dark Night and even on the Ascent of Mt Carmel. These are reflections of a man who had already experienced them, not a guidebook on how someone else might experience them.

If I were to recommend anything of his to someone who is just learning about Carmelite Spirituality, I would point them in the direction of the ultimate goal of all of this – The Living Flame of Love. Why focus on the difficulties of the path instead of on the joy of the union that awaits? Just my two cents.

One very important thing to remember in all this is that John wrote poetry - not prose - and he wrote Spanish poetry! His works have to be translated into English. His commentaries on his poetry were written for nuns to help them understand their own intense experiences.

The goal is God, not the stops along the way. And God is love, a living flame of love.
 
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Thanks all, I think from these posts I’m getting the same thing I got from the web, namely that some people take a very broad view of the “DNS” (good acronym) and others see it as a very specific spiritual experience for advanced spiritual journeyers. I agree it seems to be an overused term. People probably just like the way it sounds. It’s a grabber.

@nunsense, I am halfway through the Flame of Love book and I do go to the cenacles from time to time. I had to put the book aside for a bit as some of it seemed odd or depressing, but it makes more sense since I visited Hungary and learned a little about the culture and mindset there which likely is reflected by its author.

I guess I will just keep reading as time permits, and learning what I can.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
People probably just like the way it sounds. It’s a grabber.
Click to expand...
That reminds me, has anyone else read The Long Dark Tea-Time of the Soul, by Douglas Adams? I enjoyed it. It has nothing to do with DNS.

Getting back on topic, I can report that I have not had an experience that I would think of as a dark night, nor have I read much about it.
 
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In any case, everyone knows and loves “The Little Flower” O.C.D.:blossom:She would probably say that the writings of John of the Cross confused her, but I might be wrong. (For those who are not aware, they were both Discalced Carmelites.)
 
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@jamalchristophr

Hmm? I don’t believe so. I read her autobiography Story of a Soul, 2 years back. I remember her saying that at one point, St John of the Cross and Scripture were the only two written works that gave her any consolation. She loved John of the Cross as far as I am aware.

Did you hear this from somewhere? (I’m curious about the idea)
 
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I stand corrected, then. I did hedge my bet, though. I remember her saying in one part that sublime spiritual writings tended to confuse her and she preferred the gospels. Don’t remember about John of the Cross. Thanks for correcting my inaccuracy. I need to go back and read Story of a Soul once more.
 
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@JamalChristophr

She did feel a sense of inadequacy when reading about the saints. Moments where she thought to herself, “How on Earth could I ever be like them?” As you’ll recall she was a very sensitive human being, and like St Faustina, her crosses were very much interior and not exterior. “The Little Way” focused on the idea that what ultimately matters to God are not great works but works of great love whether they happen to be great in the eyes of the world or not.

This was not a novel idea (nothing ever is, since everything in our faith is ultimately inspired by the Gospels). St Francis de Sales and others spent a good bit of time talking about this as well. But she did renew & express the idea in a charming way that was unique to her lovable personality and intelligence.
 
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The dark night of the soul is a sort of restlessness of the soul. It is unable to find any happiness in earthly pleasures at all. At certain times God will fill the soul with a sort of spiritual happiness and love which are known as consolations. The soul is unable to gain anything from spiritual readings or confessors. The point of this is to purify the soul from affections of earthly things and love only God alone. Such a person would feel as if they were damned. Of course they did not commit any serious sins or anything like that. These cycles of desolation and consolation take a long time like a lifetime or at least a couple of years. It is very profitable and destroys the sensuality of the flesh and the allure of the world. I think St. Theresa of Avila mentions it in the Interior Castle where she talks about how the soul is like a butterfly which is unable to find rest on earth, but is unable to soar into the heavens. She also talks about spiritual pains that are like those of hell. The Dark Night of the Soul is a way that is used by the saints to get into a closer communion with God. In the writings of Saint Faustina or St Theresa of Calcutta, you can get an idea of what these pains are. I have not experienced this my self, but I did read about it. This comes solely from God to those whom He wants to unite himself with. In a way it is a foretaste of purgatory, but they would not suffer for long if at all.
 
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