The (un)importance of single, working women?

[lois_lane]

This isn’t exactly an issue of social justice, but it doesn’t really seem to fit anywhere else (also, I couldn’t find a thread that already addressed this, so if there is one out there, please point me in the right direction).

Today I listened to the Catholic Answers Live segment from a couple weeks ago – Gloria Purvis’s hour on “The Role of Women in the Church.”

One of the major things I had been struggling with as someone who is considering conversion to the Catholic faith is the Church’s seeming “lack of respect” for women. Turns out this was a HUGE misconception on my part – on the contrary, through my studies and readings I’ve discovered that the church in fact holds women in higher regard than pretty much any other religious tradition or church out there.

What I’m struggling with now is that this respect of women seems only to extend to those women who either a) choose to enter a religious order or b) choose to get married and become mothers.

I am not married. I don’t have kids. I’m not even dating anyone, nor do I want to be in any type of relationship right now. I am a young, single, working woman in the non-profit sector (the arts, to be more specific) and I love my job. I love my work, in every way. I have great friends, great relationships, and in fact feel very free and at liberty to go anywhere (I’m submitting my resume to a couple touring companies) and do anything.

Frankly, I don’t know if I’ll ever get married, or at least not anytime in the near future. It’s just not one of my “life goals” so to speak.

Does this make me less of a Christian, and if I converted, would it make me a less important Catholic? Would I be looked down upon by the church because I like working and feel that this is where my ministry and my work for God lies?

I started thinking about this because of a comment Ms. Purvis made on her hour. She was talking about a woman she worked with who left Corporate America becuase she wanted to take care of her kids. Ms. Purvis told how she reassured this woman by saying, “You are doing more good than anyone could ever do in Corporate America by staying home to raise your kids.”

I just don’t see how this can be true in every case! We NEED women in the corporate world, desparately! How does it make someone more important than me, becuase they’re choosing to get married and have kids, and I’m not?

Just because I’m not and may not ever be a mother means that I’m not as good and that I’m not advancing the kingdom of God in this world??

Thoughts, please.

 

[BlestOne]

Lois,
This is a matter of priorities for a mother, not a reflection on women in the workforce. For example: I am the Director of Information Technology where I work. If I were to get pregnant, I may choose to stay at home once the child is born because I feel raising my child is more important. My job as a mother would then trump my corporate job… This is not a reflection on my importance in corporate USA, nor is it a reflection on women in the workforce. One of the things I love about being Catholic, is that motherhood is valued and raising a family is a vocation. Not every woman is supposed to be a wife and mother. A single person has much more latitude to be available to others for example. As a mom, I can’t just pick up and fly to anywhere in the world my boss would want to send me. Actually, married women and women with children often move up the corporate ladder much slower than their single counterparts because we take time off to raise kids many times. The point Mrs. Purvis was making however, is about the most important thing when you have children is to raise them right. Kids need attention, they need security, they need nurturing. Mothers are most times the ones most suited to their needs.

 

[beckers]

I understand your struggle to find your place. It is where i am at the moment too. It’s hard being a single women who is not sure where her place is in the church. Right now I don’t have a clue as to what’s God’s calling for me. i would like to get married at some point but I know that right now i wouldn’t be a good girlfriend as i am very busy so i don’t date. I don’t think it makes me less of a christian at all. In fact i think it is the opposite. i have actaully come to understand that the vow of marriage is beautiful and sacred. It has helped me deepen my faith. Take this time in your life to understand yourself and God better.

Now as far as the coporate world goes. No it is not bad for women to be in the working world but I don’t think i would want to stay working in the corporate world after having childern. i remember my mom not being home till late in the evening and not getting to spend quailtiy time with her till much later in life all because her job in the corporate world came first. It’s all about prorities. I would be a mom first and a worker second. A job is a job but being a mom is a lifetime commitment.

Enjoy this time of your life but just don’t close off any avenues. Be open to the fact that maybe in your travels your will find a beautiful partner or think of the stories you will have if you do have childern.

 

[Della]

As a married woman, who didn’t get married until I was 35, and who never had children (just didn’t happen), I think I can relate to you in your situation.

First of all, no, you don’t have to marry. Some people are called to the single life who live in the world. So, you are fine as you are. And no, you don’t have to long for a husband and children in order to be a good Catholic.

Having said that, there is in our modern society, since the upheavels of the 60’s and 70’s, a deeply help idea that any woman who isn’t out working in the corporate world is letting society down. This simply is not true. And that is all that Ms. Purvis wished to convey to the woman who quit the corporate world in order to concentrate on being a mother to her children (which is a very hard job in and of itself).

There’s an atmosphere of encouraging young women to marry and have children within the Church, though. But that comes from the desire to see more souls come into the world to be loved by and to love God. It’s not a bad thing, but for single people it can be a bit intimidating, without anyone meaning for it to be.

If one day you meet a great young man, a Catholic, who you want to marry and have children with, that will be a good thing, but if you don’t that’s all right too. Don’t worry about it. God doesn’t expect you to be just like everyone else just for the sake of “fitting in.” Every Catholic fits in, single or married, children or not, no matter what walk of life they pursue.

 

[dafalax]

Dr. Janet Smith, as i understand, is not married nor has she children. She is brilliant and does very important work and i really enjoy her talks. I know two very good Catholic women who are in their early 40’s, have never married or had children, and are not nuns. They are also not writing brilliant theological dissertations. They are good Christian women witnessing God’s love in the world and that’s so important, too.
A lot of emphasis does get put on motherhood or consecrated religious life. This does not mean that single women are unimportant. Part of it is we are trying to recapture the importance and dignity of motherhood that radical feminism has spent the last 40 years undermining. Part of it is we are trying to increase vocations to the religious life which has also suffered from the liberal attitudes of the 1960’s.
One of the Church’s greatest saints, St. Catherine of Siena, was not a nun and was not a mother. She was a lay Dominican who worked in the world yet was not of the world because it was how God could best work through her. Witness Christ’s love as best you can and pray to know His will for you. Try not to feel slighted, too, if you don’t see your vocation extolled. It doesn’t mean you aren’t valued or that you’re not answering God’s call. God bless ye.

 

[Researcher]

By being single, whether male or female, you have a very special opportunity to serve God and the church in ways married or religious can not. You too have a calling to serve the Lord. As with every call to serve the Lord it goes completely against what the secular world is pushing on us. You say you enjoy arts. Great! How can you use that to serve the Lord and to bring others to Him?

Trying to find acceptance through the secular world will be very disheartening.

 

[lois_lane]

You say you enjoy arts. Great! How can you use that to serve the Lord and to bring others to Him?

But see, this is where I see the problem and what I can’t stand hearing! It’s like what I’m doing, because its not “in a church” means that I’m just not serving God enough.

I feel like the work I am doing out in the world IS serving the Lord and in its own way, bringing others to him. Through my integrity and honesty as an artist, and my dedication and devotion towards doing good work, I like to think that people “see Jesus.” Why is it not “good enough” because its not in a church?

In the Christian Reformed tradition, where I spent four glorious years (went to a CR college), all work is equally important in the effort to bring the good news of Christ to all the world. I learned the best definition of vocation I’ve ever heard and one that I still hold true: “Your vocation is where your greatest talents meet the world’s greatest needs.” It would be very sad for me to learn that the Catholic church frowns upon people doing what is traditionally known as “secular” work and trying to find a place for Christians in that sector.

I guess I am just tired of being bombarded with the idea that we need to keep the secular in the secular and the sacred in the sacred, and that if you are not working specifically for or in a church or your not raising kids to be more mothers and dads, then your work is not good enough. If we cannot bring the sacred into and among the secular, how will the secular ever be saved?

I can do so much good in this world by being completely in it. The theatre world is my mission field, in the same way that Africa is a field for missionaries. Why is my work, or anyone else who is in similar positions, any less important? I’m not writing a theological dissertation, I don’t pray five hours a day that lost souls be saved, but I am doing all I can, with what I’ve been given, right where I am.

 

[RyanL]

Ever look into Opus Dei? Here’s a video that might speak to you.

God Bless,
RyanL

 

[chicago]

But see, this is where I see the problem and what I can’t stand hearing! It’s like what I’m doing, because its not “in a church” means that I’m just not serving God enough.

I feel like the work I am doing out in the world IS serving the Lord and in its own way, bringing others to him. Through my integrity and honesty as an artist, and my dedication and devotion towards doing good work, I like to think that people “see Jesus.” Why is it not “good enough” because its not in a church?

I would tend to agree with this assessment. Too often, “Churchy” types tend to think that if you aren’t doing anything “for the Church” that somehow it is not “good enough.” Yet, we must remember that the lay person’s role in the Church is to bring Christ “to the world”!

In the Christian Reformed tradition, where I spent four glorious years (went to a CR college), all work is equally important in the effort to bring the good news of Christ to all the world. I learned the best definition of vocation I’ve ever heard and one that I still hold true: “Your vocation is where your greatest talents meet the world’s greatest needs.”

I like that definition of vocation.

However, I do think it is notable that within some traditions there is this idea that you constantly have to be out there doing work “for the church” (even if that is secular work) to the point that what is unseen and unapprecaited (such as motherhood might be) can be almost frowned upon as abdicating your real mission field. Perhaps this is what the kind of reaction that you heard on the radio is in response to. We need to maintain a healthy balance of perspective on both fronts to respect where each is truly doing valuable work for Christ.

It would be very sad for me to learn that the Catholic church frowns upon people doing what is traditionally known as “secular” work and trying to find a place for Christians in that sector.

She does not frown upon it (though some of her members might). In fact, Cardinal George recently mused that perhaps where we really need Catholics to be working is as bartenders.

I guess I am just tired of being bombarded with the idea that we need to keep the secular in the secular and the sacred in the sacred, and that if you are not working specifically for or in a church or your not raising kids to be more mothers and dads, then your work is not good enough. If we cannot bring the sacred into and among the secular, how will the secular ever be saved?

I can do so much good in this world by being completely in it. The theatre world is my mission field, in the same way that Africa is a field for missionaries. Why is my work, or anyone else who is in similar positions, any less important? I’m not writing a theological dissertation, I don’t pray five hours a day that lost souls be saved, but I am doing all I can, with what I’ve been given, right where I am.

You’re absolutely correct. Keep up the good work! Were only there more Catholics like yourself.

Actually, you might connect well with some of the spirituality of Opus Dei. I mention this only because they have a theology of work in the world which is in accord with what you are talking about.

 

[lois_lane]

We need to maintain a healthy balance of perspective on both fronts to respect where each is truly doing valuable work for Christ.

I think this is right on…I was just meditating this morning on the scripture passage in Galatians where Paul says, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, …slave nor free person…male nor female…for you are all one in Jesus Christ.” (3:28) I was thinking about how we can apply this verse to all seemingly contrary positions in our society: black nor white, Iraqui nor American, mother nor corporate mogul…for we are all one in Jesus Christ.

And I think we must realize that this sort of unity is absolutely central to our lives as Christians – everyone is one in Jesus, and we must work to bring this about in our world today.

Obviously, I wouldn’t be who I am without my mother and father! What they did in raising me is what brought me to this point – and had they not chosen to do that, or taken a different path, I wouldn’t be who I am today.

(ps Chicago…I’m not catholic yet…but thanks for your very encouraging statements!)

 

[Dale_M]

Hey Lois, single guys feel a bit left out in Catholic Church, too. I think the Church has had such a focus on families for so long, that it has been slow to adapt to the change in Western society which has allowed so many to live single lives.

I’m glad others have mentioned Opus Dei because I was thinking the same, but really the sanctification of work is a well established monastic tradition which readily applies to the worldly world, as most members of third orders could tell you. What you learned in the Christian Reformed tradition has strong Catholic roots too.

 

[blessedtoo]

But see, this is where I see the problem and what I can’t stand hearing! It’s like what I’m doing, because its not “in a church” means that I’m just not serving God enough.

Lois, I read through all the posts here and did not see one suggestion that a Christian must work in a “Church” in order to serve God. Perish the thought! (Some of us think there are too many laypeople working in the Church! )

I feel like the work I am doing out in the world IS serving the Lord and in its own way, bringing others to him. Through my integrity and honesty as an artist, and my dedication and devotion towards doing good work, I like to think that people “see Jesus.” Why is it not “good enough” because its not in a church?

I work in a private home as a personal chef. I never see anyone while at work. I have no opportunity to “bring” people to God directly. However, I LOVE what I do. I am so thankful to God for the gift He has given me and the opporunity to make a living at it. So I pray while I work. I think of Him when I work. I talk to Him and consider him, well, my executive-chef, if you will. And when a pie turns out beautifully, I dance around the kitchen with it and sing a little tune of praise. I bring Him into my day and I do think it shows in my work. When I do get feedback from my employers, I never fail to give the glory to God.

If we cannot bring the sacred into and among the secular, how will the secular ever be saved?

As Catholics, we are commissioned to do just this very thing. How could this ever be accomplished if we all worked in the Church? What we try to do is take the Church to the world. You can certainly do this without becoming a nun, or a wife, or a mother. Everyone, no matter their station in life, can and should do this.

I can do so much good in this world by being completely in it. The theatre world is my mission field, in the same way that Africa is a field for missionaries. Why is my work, or anyone else who is in similar positions, any less important? I’m not writing a theological dissertation, I don’t pray five hours a day that lost souls be saved, but I am doing all I can, with what I’ve been given, right where I am.

If you can just keep in mind that all the good you do in this world is a gift from God, then it is easy to keep Him close in thought during your days. Our work is important, yes, but also important to remember that if we are blessed enough to be doing something we love and using our God given gifts, then we should be mindful of and grateful to the one from whom these graces come.

 

[zes1]

Thank-you so much for starting this thread. I have been thinking about these issues since last October. I had attended a Theology of the Body seminar. If any of you are familiar with Theology of the Body, it pretty much covers only married people and people living a consecrated life (they called them consecrated virgins). I felt conflicted because I don’t fit any category. I was starting to think that the only valid vocations in the Catholic Church was marriage or religious life.

I am a 36 year old woman who has not dated much in the last 15 years, but I do not feel called to be a sister/nun either. I really don’t know what God is calling me to be. Since October, I thought I should hurry up and figure this out. I was putting a lot of pressure on myself because I can’t discern God’s plan for my life.

Reading the comments in this thread has awakened me to the idea that maybe my life as a single female is not all that invalid. Maybe this is what God is calling me to do right now. Maybe I’m not married, dating, or pursuing a religious vocation because God doesn’t mean for me to do either yet. Thank you for helping me see that my life as a single woman is okay the way it is, until God reveals the next step in my life.

 

[jmcrae]

But see, this is where I see the problem and what I can’t stand hearing! It’s like what I’m doing, because its not “in a church” means that I’m just not serving God enough.

I feel like the work I am doing out in the world IS serving the Lord and in its own way, bringing others to him. Through my integrity and honesty as an artist, and my dedication and devotion towards doing good work, I like to think that people “see Jesus.” Why is it not “good enough” because its not in a church?

But that’s exactly what the person was asking you - how can you make sure that your work (the art and associated activities) is bringing Jesus into the workplace.

Nobody was talking about bringing your work into the Church; not at all.

'In its own way" is just fine - I know lots of artists who feel that they are making a strong statement simply by not creating shock art. They feel that their “pretty picture” pieces about birds and landscapes make a stronger statement even than a portrait of Jesus would make - and they’re probably right.

In the Christian Reformed tradition, where I spent four glorious years (went to a CR college), all work is equally important in the effort to bring the good news of Christ to all the world. I learned the best definition of vocation I’ve ever heard and one that I still hold true: “Your vocation is where your greatest talents meet the world’s greatest needs.” It would be very sad for me to learn that the Catholic church frowns upon people doing what is traditionally known as “secular” work and trying to find a place for Christians in that sector.

No, not at all. The vocation of the laity (the evangelism of the world through ordinary work-a-day activities) is extremely important to the Catholic Church.

I guess I am just tired of being bombarded with the idea that we need to keep the secular in the secular and the sacred in the sacred, and that if you are not working specifically for or in a church or your not raising kids to be more mothers and dads, then your work is not good enough. If we cannot bring the sacred into and among the secular, how will the secular ever be saved?

I can do so much good in this world by being completely in it. The theatre world is my mission field, in the same way that Africa is a field for missionaries. Why is my work, or anyone else who is in similar positions, any less important? I’m not writing a theological dissertation, I don’t pray five hours a day that lost souls be saved, but I am doing all I can, with what I’ve been given, right where I am.

The Catholic Church agrees with you completely.

 

[jmcrae]

If you are looking for a Church activity, it seems to me that the Legion of Mary is ideally suited to people who are called to the vocation of the single life in the world.

 

[strngrnrth]

The theater does need missionaries. The TV and movie studios more so yet.
I often feel like a poor relation for being a Christian woman who is neither married nor seeking a husband. Oh, people are very kind to me, but I only rarely have the feeling they need me or identify with me. When I was young, perhaps I would have fit in as a “single”, i.e. someone not yet living my real life, a potential wife. But I wasn’t a Christian back then.
I find much more acceptance in the Catholic Church than anywhere in the Protestant world. But maybe that’s because a lot of the reason for the reformation had to do with celibacy v. marriage, I think.

 

[CapIV]

Each person is called to her own vocation. Not everyone’s vocation is to have a family and raise children. If you feel you are called to work, than you have a duty to do that work.

However, this is the very beginning of a very long and complex discussion about the natures of men, women, and the effects that working women have on society and their children (if you ever did decide to get married).

But rest assured, there is nothing wrong with not getting married, nor being in a religious order. Just look at Joan of Arc.

 

[strngrnrth]

If you are looking for a Church activity, it seems to me that the Legion of Mary is ideally suited to people who are called to the vocation of the single life in the world.

In brief, what can you tell us about that? Can you sum it up rather than link to a whole site? That would be very helpful.

 

[jmcrae]

In brief, what can you tell us about that? Can you sum it up rather than link to a whole site? That would be very helpful.

The activities of the Legion of Mary vary from Praesidium to Praesideum, of course, and it also depends on the Pastor and what he will permit them to do, but the essential function of the Legion of Mary is evangelism.

Our Legion of Mary here at our parish does home visitation, and how they go about that is they have a little statue of Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception that they carry with them, and they have a program called “Our Lady Comes to Visit.” Families sign up to have the statue brought over to their home for one week, and what the Legionaries do when they get there, is they set the statue up in a prominent place in the family’s home, and then they have a set of prayers that they will pray with the family. They also bring over some food, and they share the food with the family, and teach them (if they don’t know how) to say their meal time prayers when they offer this food.

Then, they give them a booklet of prayers to say every day of the week that the statue is there, with the whole family gathered in the room with the statue. There also “just happens to be” information in the booklet of prayers, talking about the Sunday Mass obligation, instructions on how to go to Confession, and the like, so that if the family is using this booklet every day of the week, then by the end of the week, the family is catechized in the basics of the faith, and given the tools to proceed further with evangelizing and catechizing their family.

At the end of the week, the Legionaries return to get the statue, and while they are there, they pray again with the family, and they socialize with them and answer any questions that they may have about the Church and about how to get more involved with parish life. The next day, the statue is rotated to the next family, and the whole process starts over again.

The family gets to keep the booklet, they are encouraged to keep using the family prayers every day, and the Legionaries keep in touch with them regularly to see how they are doing.

The program is very successful, I think, because kids really like the idea of getting to have a little statue of Mary brought into their homes, and their families respond very well to the prayers and catechesis that they receive.

 

[mpb74]

You are not unimportant to the Church. All souls are equally important to Christ, God The Father, and the Holy Spirit. God does not discriminate. We are all loved equally. Christ died for your sins, as much as anyone else’s. He want’s you to be with Him through eternity as much as He wants anyone else.

Please take this in a spirit of love and caring. I mean no offense, but from your posts, it seems that you may take statements the wrong way sometimes. When asked how you could further Christ’s mission in your current line of work, you took the statement to mean that you couldn’t be of use to God in that field. I took it to mean you should find a way that you can be of use to God in your current line of work and do what you can there.And as to motherhood it seem’s to be the hardest, most demanding job in the world, never off duty or on vacation. It seems that their contribution to society is a tad underappreciated also. Mothers can shape the faith and character of their children more than anyone else. I believe the guest on CA meant that since the mother already has children, motherhood far surpasses any job in the corporate world in terms of furthering Christ’s work here on earth.

Miscommunication and misunderstanding are a terrible weight on today’s society. We all suffer from it. For your own peace of mind, when offended you can try to think of a way that the apparent offense could have been meant as a compliment, or at least a benign comment. When I look for offense I find it rather easily, even if it wasn’t meant that way.

The Catholic Church affirms the obvious fact that Men and Women are equal in dignity and respect in the eyes of God. However we need to remember Men and Women are different, though equal. Many things and jobs are more suited to women, many are more suited to men. Many are equally suitable to both men and women. Women seem to be better suited to that whole motherhood thing though.

If you want to be treated with the respect and dignity you deserve you would be well served by coming into the Catholic fold and learning what we belive. ( Believe it or not, the newspapers usually get it wrong) We freely admit we are a Church of sinners. But the Church, our mother, while being strict is the most loving and forgiving parent you could imagine. The Church teaches us the Truth. Through Christ’s Church we learn to sin less, and to love more. Christ did His best work with sinner’s. He chose to spend His time with them instead of self righteous hypocrites. ( Of which I also am at times)

Also try calling the CA apologist line, I think it’s business hours Monday thru Friday, California time,and they can explain how single women are as much an asset to our Church as anyone else.

God Bless You, and hopefully, welcome home. We’ve been waiting for you. Dan