The (un)importance of single, working women?

[leftistdestroye]

lois_lane;1925694]

I just don’t see how this can be true in every case!

It may not be. But if a majority of women thought that, then where does that leave us?

We NEED women in the corporate world, desparately!

Do you NEED women, or anybody? And if women, then why?

How does it make someone more important than me, becuase they’re choosing to get married and have kids, and I’m not?

I wouldn’t say more important, but different. It’s like comparing the business owner to the worker. Each is important, but different. A worker helps keep the business in existance. But the owner keeps multiple people employed.

We can play semantics with all of that, but if you keep it simple, you will understand the point.

Also, you know what it is like to be single with no kids right now. BUT, you don’t know what it is like to be married with kids. You may be missing out.

 

[jmcrae]

Do you NEED women, or anybody? And if women, then why?

Women are needed in business because women are (or tend to be) better communicators, and good at detail work. Men are spatially oriented, and good at big picture stuff.

Working women also civilize the workplace and make it better for men, too - including men who are supporting a stay at home wife and children. A man who works with women in his office is more likely to come home in time for dinner and play with his children than a man who works exclusively with other men.

 

[mmyers]

But see, this is where I see the problem and what I can’t stand hearing! It’s like what I’m doing, because its not “in a church” means that I’m just not serving God enough.

I feel like the work I am doing out in the world IS serving the Lord and in its own way, bringing others to him. Through my integrity and honesty as an artist, and my dedication and devotion towards doing good work, I like to think that people “see Jesus.” Why is it not “good enough” because its not in a church?

Someone responded to you to check out Opus Dei and I think it was glossed over because of other reponses. It is exactly what I thought when I read your reply. My husband is looking at joining and he is an accountant who is very faith-filled. You wouldn’t know it by looking at him…he doesn’t wear a robe or many religious articles…he feels like his calling is to live out the Catholic faith in his everyday life. Opus Dei (Work of God) is all about living the faith in the everyday, no matter what your profession is. You are exactly right- we need people in every walk of life to be striving for sainthood.

 

[mmyers]

But see, this is where I see the problem and what I can’t stand hearing! It’s like what I’m doing, because its not “in a church” means that I’m just not serving God enough.

I feel like the work I am doing out in the world IS serving the Lord and in its own way, bringing others to him. Through my integrity and honesty as an artist, and my dedication and devotion towards doing good work, I like to think that people “see Jesus.” Why is it not “good enough” because its not in a church?

In the Christian Reformed tradition, where I spent four glorious years (went to a CR college), all work is equally important in the effort to bring the good news of Christ to all the world. I learned the best definition of vocation I’ve ever heard and one that I still hold true: “Your vocation is where your greatest talents meet the world’s greatest needs.” It would be very sad for me to learn that the Catholic church frowns upon people doing what is traditionally known as “secular” work and trying to find a place for Christians in that sector.

I guess I am just tired of being bombarded with the idea that we need to keep the secular in the secular and the sacred in the sacred, and that if you are not working specifically for or in a church or your not raising kids to be more mothers and dads, then your work is not good enough. If we cannot bring the sacred into and among the secular, how will the secular ever be saved?

I can do so much good in this world by being completely in it. The theatre world is my mission field, in the same way that Africa is a field for missionaries. Why is my work, or anyone else who is in similar positions, any less important? I’m not writing a theological dissertation, I don’t pray five hours a day that lost souls be saved, but I am doing all I can, with what I’ve been given, right where I am.

Someone responded to you to check out Opus Dei and I think it was glossed over because of other reponses. It is exactly what I thought when I read your reply. My husband is looking at joining and he is an accountant who is very faith-filled. You wouldn’t know it by looking at him…he doesn’t wear a robe or many religious articles…he feels like his calling is to live out the Catholic faith in his everyday life. Opus Dei (Work of God) is all about living the faith in the everyday, no matter what your profession is. You are exactly right- we need people in every walk of life to be striving for sainthood.

 

[leftistdestroye]

jmcrae;3618295]

Women are needed in business because women are (or tend to be) better communicators, and good at detail work. Men are spatially oriented, and good at big picture stuff.

How did we ever manage…

Working women also civilize the workplace and make it better for men, too - including men who are supporting a stay at home wife and children. A man who works with women in his office is more likely to come home in time for dinner and play with his children than a man who works exclusively with other men.

Hummm. usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-01-08-workplace-usat_x.htm

“Sixty-two percent of the unfaithful men and 46% of the women met their illicit partner through work.”

 

[Dale_M]

“Sixty-two percent of the unfaithful men and 46% of the women met their illicit partner through work.”

Since work is where we spend a large chunk of our waking hours, and an even bigger chunk of awake hours which aren’t spent at home, those percentages aren’t surprising.

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae;3618295]

How did we ever manage…

You didn’t. Prior to the Industrial Revolution, your wife and daughters were helping you on the farm.

 

[leftistdestroye]

Dale_M;3622645]

Since work is where we spend a large chunk of our waking hours, and an even bigger chunk of awake hours which aren’t spent at home, those percentages aren’t surprising.

Sure, it makes sense. But just incase you didn’t notice, this was in response to post #22 which said:

“A man who works with women in his office is more likely to come home in time for dinner and play with his children than a man who works exclusively with other men.”

I am contesting that. lol

 

[leftistdestroye]

jmcrae;3622651]

You didn’t. Prior to the Industrial Revolution, your wife and daughters were helping you on the farm.

And up until the 60’s, we managed to beat Germany and Japan, and become the worlds strongest and richest nation. All that while women were raising their family.

 

[jmcrae]

jmcrae;3622651]

And up until the 60’s, we managed to beat Germany and Japan, and become the worlds strongest and richest nation. All that while women were raising their family.

Actually, while you guys were out at war, the women were working in the factories and mills, and working the farms, in order to “keep the home fires burning.” There were also quite a few women working in radar and radio communications to keep you guys informed about where the enemy was and what he was doing, as nurses and medi-vacs on the battle-fields, and a variety of other small but essential tasks.

http://www.rosietheriveter.org/rosiepainting.jpg

 

[leftistdestroye]

jmcrae;3622702]

Actually, while you guys were out at war, the women were working in the factories and mills, and working the farms, in order to “keep the home fires burning.” There were also quite a few women working in radar and radio communications to keep you guys informed about where the enemy was and what he was doing, as nurses and medi-vacs on the battle-fields, and a variety of other small but essential tasks.

Desperate times call for desperate measures. And they are usually temporary. The 60’s made them permanent.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’ll admit my prejudice up front.

I come from a long line of working women. Obviously those who were my ancestors were married. But there were a good number in my family who never did marry.

One of my best childhood memories is of an aunt who never married. Back during WWII, she got herself a phonograph making machine. She took it to a huge army base and “cut records” for soldiers who were going overseas. In those records, the soldiers would have long conversations with their loved ones, or just sang or talked about life or whatever. She charged for it, of course, but she was absolutely swamped by customers. She worked long hours cutting records for soldiers about to leave. I have found a few old ones that evidently had bad addresses and came back to her. They are just knockouts! Pages from history. She revved the machine up from time to time for my siblings and me to record songs or piano pieces or whatever.

During the 1930s and 1940s after the war and into the 1950s, she worked as a traveling railroad dispatcher for the seasonal fruit business; chiefly strawberries. The season for her started in Louisiana and she moved north with it. She had a million stories of the huge auctions of the crops, the characters who were in that game, their lives and activities, what dispatching, say, trains from New Orleans to New York, Chicago, everywhere was back then. She called those stories her “windies”. I remember staying overnight at her house sometimes. My siblings and I would sneak out of bed and go to her bedroom and, in unison, say “tell us another windy!” She knew it was coming, and always obliged.

Seemed like she knew every college “fight song” ever written. Don’t know how she learned them all or why, but was interesting to try to “stump her”. She was good.

She made the best concoction imaginable out of tomatoes and every kind of vegetable it seemed like. She called it her “Ketchup”, but it was more like a salsa or something, before anybody ever heard of salsa. Wonderful. Much in demand in the town.

I had another aunt who never married. She was a businesswoman of significance in town. She was also of major significance in the Church. She was in the choir and sang; sometimes also played. She was an incredible pianist. She and some other women (I’m sure it was some known Church organization, but I can’t remember the name of it.) went out doing charitable works. That was back before welfare. I well remember being at her house when one of the other women would call, informing her of someone who needed help of some kind. She would gather up some money and her car keys and head out to meet with another woman or two and go buy food or pay a hospital bill or take somebody to a doctor or hospital or arrange a rental for somebody or something like that. I never knew exactly how they put that network together, but they sure did do it.

My own sister never married. She has a full life. She’s a licensed counselor. Friends, family, professional organizations. She recently retired from active counseling and gives lectures on it now through professional organizations to which she belongs.

Practically from birth I knew my vocation was to be a married man. I don’t know how I knew it; I just did. That has, indeed, been my life. But just as I always knew I would be a husband and father, for whatever reason I knew that, I have always known that others are meant to be single people. It can be a rich life to be single, or a poor one, just like it is for those who marry. It’s just different from that of married people.

Good heavens! Peggy Noonan has never married! How could anybody be more accomplished than Peggy Noonan! Well, I have some issues with Condi Rice, but she’s a very accomplished single woman. With the passage of time, when everybody gets over loving to hate George Bush, people are going to realize what a trailblazer Condi Rice really is, and wonder why on earth people didn’t see it at the time.

So there’s my take, whatever it’s worth.

 

[pathia]

jmcrae;3622651]

And up until the 60’s, we managed to beat Germany and Japan, and become the worlds strongest and richest nation. All that while women were raising their family.

Some of us women can’t have children. What are we? Chopped liver?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Some of us women can’t have children. What are we? Chopped liver?

Not at all, but you weren’t the topic. My maternal grandmother died years and years before I was born. She married my grandfather when she was, perhaps, in her late thirties or early forties. They never had children. She was the manager of a “chain store” back when they were first starting, (and when a woman managing a large store was pretty unheard-of) and was a thoroughly competent businesswoman. As a person, she was a saint, and I say that without the slightest reservation.

I’m sure the poster meant no offense.

 

[puzzleannie]

What I’m struggling with now is that this respect of women seems only to extend to those women who either a) choose to enter a religious order or b) choose to get married and become mothers.

I .

the commentator was speaking to the question of one woman, who is a mother, not to single women w/o kids.

the fact is like churches everywhere, we have “church ladies” for lack of a better term, who are just that, lay women who serve the church, the liturgy, the parish, and God’s poor in ways to numerous to mention. My job, religious education director or coordinator, is filled I estimate (based on attendance at NCCL convention last month) 85% or more by women, and at least here, the majority are single. as is true of ministry in general, working for non-profits in general, and working for the Church in any capacity, in general, salaries and benefits are below the level offered in the corporate world.

as far as paid career jobs, the Church needs in one way or another every skill or career that exists in “the outside world”–accounting, teaching, law, medicine, insurance & risk management (huge need), administration of all types, etc.

as far as volunteering, or as we prefer to call it, stewardship of time and talent, it is a fact that there is a perception, if not a reality, that single people have more time and therefore should serve more, and in fact, it is often the case they do more than their share in carrying out ministry and apostolates in their parishes and communities. However all the baptized are called to service, and in confirmation strengthened and prepared for service, so there is no barrier to anyone (other than of course the requirements for the ordained).

this is a secret so keep it under your hat
women run the Church.
oh yeah

we are teaching and handing on the faith to the next generation
the day to day tasks on how ritual is done, ministry is done and carried out, is largely ours. Pastors may make decisions and bishops make laws, but the practical day to day application of these rests largely with women.

the secret I think is the same for everyone who is struggling with either dissatisfaction, or a being under-appreciated and under-valued, in their current state in life. And that is a spiritual struggle to recognize ones current state in life as a vocation, permanent or temporary, and approach all the work, duties, joys, satisfactions, sufferings, and sacrifices of that state as part of the vocation, and unite them with Christ.

it is a mistake to take commentary intended for one person or one group of persons personally as an indirect slap at those who are part of that group.

yest marriage and priesthood are both high callings, but just as everyone is not called to the priesthood, not all are called to marriage. But ALL without exception are called to service.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

How’s about we get back on topic?

To the OP: some people are called to the single life – their contributions are just as valuable as those who are called to the priesthood, to the religious life, or to marriage. What one does in one’s day-to-day life can bear great witness to the truth, and can inspire others to seek that truth.

As someone who also shares a love of the arts, I believe strongly that, to paraphrase Madeleine L’Engle, all “real” art serves the truth – and the source of all truth is God. Use your position in the arts world as a beacon of truth if that’s where God wants you to be.

Peace,
Dante

 

[pathia]

I’m sure the poster meant no offense.

Given their posting history I’m not so sure.

 

[kentuckyliz]

Well, I am a single, NM/NK woman whose vocation field is in the world and not in the Church. I work as unto the Lord and my work glorifies God. I don’t feel unimportant or devalued by anyone in or outside the Church.

I refuse to do too much service in my parish and become a “Church Lady” - there is often lots of social pressure to do that. It is not good for me spiritually. I’ll attend, socialize, and write checks till the cows come home, but that’s it.

Please don’t confuse other individual person’s attitudes about childfree single working women with the Church’s position. There is nothing wrong with you and you are valued.

In general, in and outside of Church, single women are suspicious because other married women think you’re going after their husbands. (Puh-leeze.)

The breeders have a hard time imagining that not everyone is suited to be a breeder. (Such as an earlier poster suggesting that you’re missing out.)

Just live your authentic life with your God-given talents and mission–which you discern from the evidence of where your success and happiness is, from that still small voice inside, from that sense of doing important work. You’re not obligated to be a Jerk For Jesus and ask everyone in your work if they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ as their savior and Lord. Living as an unselfconscious, happy, faith-filled Christian is witness itself.

There is a long history of high-achieving “spinster aunties” in my family so I am carrying on the tradition in this generation and I get zero pressure from my family. There are several NM/NK working women in my tiny parish and they are valued members of the community (and not “earning” the love through doing too much service and becoming Church Lady). Last year I met a chemistry researcher single woman who became Catholic from another denomination because only the Catholics accepted that she is single in this life and devotes herself to her work as a research scientist…everywhere else pressured her into finding a husband and popping out babies. Not her calling but they wouldn’t believe her. Many Christians don’t accept non-breeder women but Catholics accept them just as they are.

Be who you are, you beloved Daughter of the King. God has blessed you with particular talents and interests and values and personality needs…discovering that and living that out is your life’s journey to God. Only care about what God thinks, not other people. Love God and do what you will.

You should check out Cursillo, too…great lay spirituality movement for living your faith in the world right where you are.

My blog is the Apostolic Anchoress…serving others, and home is a sanctuary of prayer and peace. “Just” as a single woman living in the world. So we are birds of a feather, m’dear. high five and God bless.

 

[Dale_M]

The breeders have a hard time imagining that not everyone is suited to be a breeder.

LOL - Now that is a term I hadn’t expected to read here!

My blog is the Apostolic Anchoress…serving others, and home is a sanctuary of prayer and peace.

Ah, but you didn’t do us the service of providing a link to your blog.

Here it is:
apostolicanchoress.blogspot.com/

I see your sense of humor, and faith, has carried you through some tough times. Thank you for sharing both with us - they are edifying.

 

[graceandglory]

I am not married. I don’t have kids. I’m not even dating anyone, nor do I want to be in any type of relationship right now. I am a young, single, working woman in the non-profit sector (the arts, to be more specific) and I love my job. I love my work, in every way. I have great friends, great relationships, and in fact feel very free and at liberty to go anywhere (I’m submitting my resume to a couple touring companies) and do anything.

Frankly, I don’t know if I’ll ever get married, or at least not anytime in the near future. It’s just not one of my “life goals” so to speak.

Does this make me less of a Christian, and if I converted, would it make me a less important Catholic? Would I be looked down upon by the church because I like working and feel that this is where my ministry and my work for God lies?

Well, the Church does teach that we are all called to a vocation, either to consecrated celibacy, marriage, or singleness.

I too am a single woman, and I don’t feel unimportant.

The Church also teaches us that in whatever vocation we have we are to love and serve the Lord, and we are to become a total self-gift to others. Does your career allow you to do that? How do you see yourself being a self-gift to others?

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Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay his life down for his friends.***