"The Unannounced Reason Behind American Fundamentalism's Support for the State of Israel"

[patrick457]

To the mods: I’m not sure if this is the correct forum to post this. If there is a more better forum then please kindly move it there.

I normally don’t like reading or linking to articles of this type, but its premise - that behind the support that many Fundamentalists show to the modern state of Israel lies an agenda tied to Fundamentalist Pre-Trib/Rapture eschatology - kind of intrigues me. What do you guys think of this?

 

[aspirant]

I normally don’t like reading or linking to articles of this type, but its premise - that behind the support that many Fundamentalists show to the modern state of Israel lies an agenda tied to Fundamentalist Pre-Trib/Rapture eschatology - kind of intrigues me. What do you guys think of this?

I didn’t really read the link, and I profoundly disagree with North’s theology, but I think it’s pretty common knowledge that many Fundamentalists and even other Evangelicals support Israel for theological reasons. I wouldn’t even call it “unannounced,” since many of them will openly tell you their eschatology is exactly why they take the stance they do.

 

[patrick457]

I didn’t really read the link, and I profoundly disagree with North’s theology, but I think it’s pretty common knowledge that many Fundamentalists and even other Evangelicals support Israel for theological reasons. I wouldn’t even call it “unannounced,” since many of them will openly tell you their eschatology is exactly why they take the stance they do.

North’s theological leanings aside for now, I really think people must read the link in question first. I mean, it’s there for a reason. Otherwise I shouldn’t have just linked to it and left you folks to find the article for yourselves. (But then again I’m just the pot calling the kettle black here.)

North BTW is focusing on Jews in Israel.

 

[aspirant]

I really think people must read the link in question first.

Why? Like I said, it’s pretty much common knowledge that premil theology is the basis of much Fundamentalist and Evangelical support for Israel. They’re very open about this point. Horribly wrong, theologically speaking, but open about it.

 

[DaveBj]

Having grown up with and having spent several decades in pre-mil, pre-trib dispensationalist denominations, I have to say that the linked article is pretty much on target as to why those circles support Israel, although there is probably more thought and analysis that went into the article than most evangelicals put into their reasoning. Read it or don’t read it as you choose, but if you’ve never been exposed to this kind of thinking, this article will tell you a lot about it.

With regard to the “Jesus is coming back soon” line, since I swam the Tiber my mental response is, “Not until there’s something worth coming back for.”

 

[patrick457]

Why? Like I said, it’s pretty much common knowledge that premil theology is the basis of much Fundamentalist and Evangelical support for Israel. They’re very open about this point. Horribly wrong, theologically speaking, but open about it.

When was the last time you heard a Fundamentalist say “Jesus is coming, and two-thirds of the Jews in Israel will die in the Tribulation sooner or later”? That’s what North is arguing is the detail that doesn’t get into public hearing: that Israeli Jews must be kept alive until most of them are inevitably killed after the Rapture. In other words, we have here a scapegoating.

 

[wllmjoseph]

The article contains many sound points I do not believe that it is an accurate reflection of the majority of Christian fundamentalists. The majortiy of Christian fundamentalists are interested in spreading the Christian faith not to the Jews soley but to all non Christians regardless if they are Jews or Arabs.

In the close of the article is states that the American fundamentalists are intersted in the conversion of the Jews to Christianity for at the Rapture but the Christians and the Jewish Christian will be taking up to heaven leaving behind the Arabs. What about the Arabs who are Christian and are practicing their Christian faith in spite of the discrimination and persecution they encounter on a daily level? Are the Arab Christian going to be left behind because they are Arab? I think not. They are many such inaccuracies in the article.

Personaly having lived in Long Island, NY most of my life I have a gread admiration, respect and love for are elder brothers in faith. The Jews are truly and impressive people. I am a strong supporter of the state of Israel. Where I disagree with many Christian fundamentalists is that the Palestinians need to be recognized and they need to have a viable state. Many of the Christian fundamentalists have little to no consideration for the Palestinians. I there is ever to be peace in the “Holy Land” than the Palestinian people need to be recognized and to have a viable state for themselves.

 

[patrick457]

The article contains many sound points I do not believe that it is an accurate reflection of the majority of Christian fundamentalists. The majortiy of Christian fundamentalists are interested in spreading the Christian faith not to the Jews soley but to all non Christians regardless if they are Jews or Arabs.

In the close of the article is states that the American fundamentalists are intersted in the conversion of the Jews to Christianity for at the Rapture but the Christians and the Jewish Christian will be taking up to heaven leaving behind the Arabs. What about the Arabs who are Christian and are practicing their Christian faith in spite of the discrimination and persecution they encounter on a daily level? Are the Arab Christian going to be left behind because they are Arab? I think not. They are many such inaccuracies in the article.

I think you mean not interested. If we believe the author here keeping Jews Jewish (again, for a reason) is a priority for the people who hold this belief.

 

[AbideWithMe]

When was the last time you heard a Fundamentalist say “Jesus is coming, and two-thirds of the Jews in Israel will die in the Tribulation sooner or later”? That’s what North is arguing is the detail that doesn’t get into public hearing: that Israeli Jews must be kept alive until most of them are inevitably killed after the Rapture. In other words, we have here a scapegoating.

Patrick–I had come across that specific article years ago, so I just skimmed it now to make sure it was the same one.

I think Gary North is full of hogwash. He mixes in some true points about what some
Fundamentalists believe about Israel, then right here–in what you’re quoting—makes this huge leap in his own thinking. He needs to back this up with a significant body of proof from Fundamentalists themselves—proving that they follow his leap.

 

[aspirant]

When was the last time you heard a Fundamentalist say…

I hear lots about their beliefs; I know a lot of premil people. Their views are hardly secret.

I don’t think Gary North’s views should be put aside, by the way. He has a definite POV and a serious ax to grind, not just against Fundamentalists and other premil Evangelicals but also against Catholics and other folks who don’t share his postmil/reconstructionist views.

 

[JonNC]

To the mods: I’m not sure if this is the correct forum to post this. If there is a more better forum then please kindly move it there.

I normally don’t like reading or linking to articles of this type, but its premise - that behind the support that many Fundamentalists show to the modern state of Israel lies an agenda tied to Fundamentalist Pre-Trib/Rapture eschatology - kind of intrigues me. What do you guys think of this?

I agree with the other poster that this is not an “unannounced reason”.

Being Lutheran, and therefore not Pre-trib, etc., my support for Israel is political, not religious.

Jon

 

[patrick457]

Now this is more like it! Finally, we’re all having a discussion. I’ll just lurk a bit longer to see what other people have to say.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I think you mean not interested. **If we believe the author here **keeping Jews Jewish (again, for a reason) is a priority for the people who hold this belief.

I thinks there’s the problem right there in what I bolded. Where is the proof for Gary North’s leap here? I’m an American Evangelical Christian. Though I don’t hold to dispensational theology myself, I’m certainly familiar with it. I think North takes some twists and turns in his own thinking that aren’t taken by Evangelicals. If his twists are taken by Fundamentalists, I’d like to see that proven by North. When I read this same article years ago I looked for some evidence from Fundamentalists, and couldn’t find it.

I think William Joseph does mean interested.

 

[aspirant]

Though I don’t hold to dispensational theology myself, I’m certainly familiar with it. I think North takes some twists and turns in his own thinking that aren’t taken by Evangelicals. If his twists are taken by Fundamentalists, I’d like to see that proven by North.

^ This.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

**Be sure to read Karl Keating’s first book, “Catholicism and Fundamentalism”. He discusses many of these differences. An outstanding book. Very clear.
**

Gary North is a very biblically oriented writer, but as of a few years ago, had no use for the Catholic Church.

So, you can get some benefit from his writing and speaking, but be very careful because his perspective is sort of anti-Catholic.

His blistering anti-Transubstantiation essays are horrific to the Catholic.

But his biblical economics essays and books can be helpful.

Gary North is a “follower” of Rousas Rushdoony … [and I forget, but maybe married into Rushdoony’s family] …

Worth studying, but only as a “professional student” meaning don’t expect answers, just more questions that you would then have to delve deeply into] … and potentially very confusing to people who don’t know about the differences between Catholicism and the Chalcedon “approach” to Christianity.

So, be very wary.

One of the reasons why I strongly advocate that Catholic students of Catholicism do some work in Latin, Greek and Hebrew is to gain some familiarity with the ROOTS and root words of the Bible and Church documents.

So, do a Wiki or google search for Gary North and for Rousas Rushdoony and for Chalcedon … just to get some of the basics under your belt before reading them.

 

[DaveBj]

snip

Gary North is a “follower” of Rousas Rushdoony … [and I forget, but maybe married into Rushdoony’s family] …

I used to get Rushdoony’s magazine back in the early '80s. Reading it made my head ache.

snip

One of the reasons why I strongly advocate that Catholic students of Catholicism do some work in Latin, Greek and Hebrew is to gain some familiarity with the ROOTS and root words of the Bible and Church documents.

snip

Amen.

 

[tabycat]

There id really nothing new in the link, just everything in one place.

 

[AbideWithMe]

There id really nothing new in the link, just everything in one place.

If you believe this article is an accurate representation of fundamentalist’s beliefs—**all of the article, **including the idea that fundamentalists see Jews as scapegoats, wishing that they do not become Christians, and looking forward to them being gathered into Israel to be killed----please provide the evidence.

 

[Publisher]

To the mods: I’m not sure if this is the correct forum to post this. If there is a more better forum then please kindly move it there.

I normally don’t like reading or linking to articles of this type, but its premise - that behind the support that many Fundamentalists show to the modern state of Israel lies an agenda tied to Fundamentalist Pre-Trib/Rapture eschatology - kind of intrigues me. What do you guys think of this?

The State of Israel has nothing to do with the Israel of God. I know many Fundamentalists can’t get their minds around the modern political State of Israel is just another nation who’s principle populations are made up of Semetic peoples…they are not Chosen Israel however…os their preocupation with the State of Israel baffles me as well.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

To the mods: I’m not sure if this is the correct forum to post this. If there is a more better forum then please kindly move it there.

I normally don’t like reading or linking to articles of this type, but its premise - that behind the support that many Fundamentalists show to the modern state of Israel lies an agenda tied to Fundamentalist Pre-Trib/Rapture eschatology - kind of intrigues me. What do you guys think of this?

Perhaps it might be true, but I certainly think the article skews it to an extreme.

Some Evangelicals certainly have a bizarre reverence for the State of Israel. It was a big thing in the kind of churches in which I grew up. Behind the support for Israel is the idea that the Jewish people never really lost their status as the chosen people of God even after the crucifixion of Jesus. They are therefore “still special” and have a major role to play in God’s plan.

Many also take quite literally the biblical quote that God will “bless those who bless Israel” - interpreted to mean the State of Israel and the Jewish people. It’s not in a bizarre way to “protect” the coming of the Rapture or any such oddities in the article.