The unbeliving scientist

  • Thread starter Thread starter optiplex
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
O

optiplex

Guest
I am friends with a scientist in the field of physics. He thinks that there is no God because of all the “proof” that prooves otherwise. I tried at one time to say, how can everything, this big beautiful universe, not have a creator? And since he belives in the big bang, I asked him, if everything here came from a spec of dust, where did that spec of dust come from? But, he keeps talking with his scientific jargon and mathematical proofs. He is a hard nut to crack. What can I say to eventually start chipping away at him? I do pray fro him, but he feels so good, and better, when I can’t mathematically prove there is something higher. He is just so dang set in his ways.
 
optiplex said:
I am friends with a scientist in the field of physics. He thinks that there is no God because of all the “proof” that prooves otherwise. I tried at one time to say, how can everything, this big beautiful universe, not have a creator? And since he belives in the big bang, I asked him, if everything here came from a spec of dust, where did that spec of dust come from? But, he keeps talking with his scientific jargon and mathematical proofs. He is a hard nut to crack. What can I say to eventually start chipping away at him? I do pray fro him, but he feels so good, and better, when I can’t mathematically prove there is something higher. He is just so dang set in his ways.
Click to expand...
You could try asking him where the mathematics and physical laws he uses in his “proofs” come from? Why do they exist?

Whenever X comes up, ask “But why does X exist?” It may prove fruitful.
 
In addition to pursing the origins of the universe, you can also try asking why so many aspects of the universe are as ordered as they are? A fundamental law of physics involves the idea of entropy or ‘disorder’, which all things and processes gradually and naturally migrate toward. How then could an ‘ordered’ universe come to be in the first place???
 
VociMike said:
You could try asking him where the mathematics and physical laws he uses in his “proofs” come from? Why do they exist?

Whenever X comes up, ask “But why does X exist?” It may prove fruitful.
Click to expand...
And following up on the above. The physical laws of the universe were created very early in the Big Bang. How is it that they came out “just right” to allow the universe to form, and for life to develop. The chances were overwhelmingly against it (as in “impossible”), if it was just chance.
 
ricmat said:
And following up on the above. The physical laws of the universe were created very early in the Big Bang. How is it that they came out “just right” to allow the universe to form, and for life to develop. The chances were overwhelmingly against it (as in “impossible”), if it was just chance.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have seen the degree of fine tuning of the cosmological constant calculated as one part in 10^120. That’s some pretty fine tuning!
 
optiplex said:
I am friends with a scientist in the field of physics. He thinks that there is no God because of all the “proof” that prooves otherwise. I tried at one time to say, how can everything, this big beautiful universe, not have a creator? And since he belives in the big bang, I asked him, if everything here came from a spec of dust, where did that spec of dust come from? But, he keeps talking with his scientific jargon and mathematical proofs. He is a hard nut to crack. What can I say to eventually start chipping away at him? I do pray fro him, but he feels so good, and better, when I can’t mathematically prove there is something higher. He is just so dang set in his ways.
Click to expand...
I am also a physicist. I truly wonder what mathematical proofs he comes up with to try and disprove a Creator or a God. I really think that he’s getting physics and science messed up with metaphysics. Science does not prove there is no God, nor does it prove there is a God. In my opinion there’s plenty of evidence of God from science, but there isn’t proof one way or another.

I would recommend the book, God, Chance and Necessity by Keith Ward. It’s quite a difficult read, but blows people like Richard Dawkins well out of the water.
 
VociMike said:
Yes, I have seen the degree of fine tuning of the cosmological constant calculated as one part in 10^120. That’s some pretty fine tuning!
Click to expand...
Well, I suppose it can be explained by eternal inflation…
 
How did the laws of the universe evolve?

Which laws came first?

Did the laws that govern life evolve?

Which laws that govern life came first?

Where is the proof?
 
I wrote this in another thread.

I would recommend the following book. 👍

“The Science of God” by Gerald L. Schroeder
 
ribozyme said:
Well, I suppose it can be explained by eternal inflation…
Click to expand...
That’s just borrowing attributes of God and assigning them to the material world in order to get the desired answer. It’s God-on-the-cheap.
 
VociMike said:
That’s just borrowing attributes of God and assigning them to the material world in order to get the desired answer. It’s God-on-the-cheap.
Click to expand...
No, it is just a scalar field with that is very high on its potential. While the potential rolls down most of the time, quantum fluctations bring it back uo.
 
ribozyme said:
No, it is just a scalar field with that is very high on its potential. While the potential rolls down most of the time, quantum fluctations bring it back uo.
Click to expand...
You used the word “eternal”. That’s an attribute of God.
 
There was a documentary on this sort of thing a few weeks back on UK television. It went fairly in-depth, interviewing physics big-wigs at Fermi-Lab studying the Big-Bang etc. They were all quite constant in saying that God couldn’t be proved or disproved and I admired them for their position.

Seems to me that your scientist friend is guilty of the same crime like the Inteligent Design crowd in so much as they’ve started with a conclusion and are now working to find evidence to support it?
 
ribozyme said:
More technically, it is semi-eternal or future-eternal…
Click to expand...
So we know that the past is not eternal. For God not to exist you need to believe the future is eternal but you can’t give any cause for your belief. You just take it on faith.
 
Durendin said:
There was a documentary on this sort of thing a few weeks back on UK television. It went fairly in-depth, interviewing physics big-wigs at Fermi-Lab studying the Big-Bang etc. They were all quite constant in saying that God couldn’t be proved or disproved and I admired them for their position.

Seems to me that your scientist friend is guilty of the same crime like the Inteligent Design crowd in so much as they’ve started with a conclusion and are now working to find evidence to support it?
Click to expand...
How could they study the Big Bang at Fermi lab? It seems that the energy in the particle collisions at not high energy to simulate the conditions at the grand unification scale (i.e. when the strong, weak, and electromagnetic forces are unified) …

Oh never mind, the Big Bang is not a theory about the creation of the universe; instead it is a theory about the development of the universe.
 
Atreyu said:
I would recommend the book, God, Chance and Necessity by Keith Ward. It’s quite a difficult read, but blows people like Richard Dawkins well out of the water.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this recommendation. For those of you sympathetic to probability theory and a Baysean approach to deciding whether rare or ‘unprovable’ concepts are true or false, a friend of mine has published: “The Probability of God,” by Stephen Unwin (Crowne Forum, New York). A worthwhile read.
 
ribozyme said:
How could they study the Big Bang at Fermi lab?
Click to expand...
It was all kind of fruits in white coats including the crew at Fermi, but that’s off the point.

For every scientist who said God couldn’t be proved there was one to say that he couldn’t be disproved as the data as it stands creates no conclusion either way.
 
If something (matter) comes from nothing then there is likely no god.
If one believes that matter comes from absolutely nothing, then forget it. He’s lost his compass.
The only other alternative is to have a FAITH that matter has existed for all eternity (beyond time).
The deist has a FAITH that non-material intellect existed for all eternity, but not matter.

In either case, they rely on faith for their belief.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top