The United Kingdom and Catholicism

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The possibilities of the opening post are pure fantasy.

Never happen.

Don’t really want it to.

Although the English Catholic church has some problems it there seems to be a turning point happening and we are preventing the masses leaving and becoming a much more vibrant and visible church.

The ‘New Evangelism’ don’t you know?

We are overtaking the Church of England in weekly attendance.

Praise the Lord.
 
Realistically, what we will see within the next few decades is that Islam will be established as the national religion of the UK, and join in a pan-European Caliphate that will be established about the same time.

This is honestly the way I see it going, based on how things are currently headed.
 
Can’t anyone tell the difference between ‘England’ and the ‘United Kingdom’? England is but one of the four constituent countries of the UK. The (Anglican) Church of England is only the Established Church in England. In Scotland, the (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland has semi-formal recognition as the ‘national church’, but isn’t established in the same sense as the English Church, whereas Northern Ireland and Wales have no officially recognised national denominations whatsoever!
 
mikelionheart said:
The possibilities of the opening post are pure fantasy.

Never happen.

Don’t really want it to.

Although the English Catholic church has some problems it there seems to be a turning point happening and we are preventing the masses leaving and becoming a much more vibrant and visible church.

The ‘New Evangelism’ don’t you know?

We are overtaking the Church of England in weekly attendance.

Praise the Lord.
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Never say never.
The Iman of England is asking Britain to be an Islam State !!!
But … we count on the British Catholic (!!!) to stand their ground as Charles Martel in Poitier and the Catholic Kings spetially the one of Poland in Wien.
 
O_Duirnin said:
Can’t anyone tell the difference between ‘England’ and the ‘United Kingdom’? England is but one of the four constituent countries of the UK. The (Anglican) Church of England is only the Established Church in England. In Scotland, the (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland has semi-formal recognition as the ‘national church’, but isn’t established in the same sense as the English Church, whereas Northern Ireland and Wales have no officially recognised national denominations whatsoever!
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Yes…The Scottish Episcopal Church in Scotland is apart of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

Also to Americans…England is but one country constituting the United Kingdom…there are Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Kingdom of England (Covers England and Wales) later covering Ireland…Kingdom of England merges with the Kingdom of Scotland officially becoming The Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland…Ireland later becomes the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland (owned by the British) now it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. (United referring to the union of the Kingdom of England and Scotland in 1707)

You refer to the UK as Britain or the United Kingdom…

Elizabeth II is not The Queen of England…but The Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…there has not been a Queen of England since the time of Queen Anne in 1707.
 
Also in regards to my opening statement or question however you wish to take it.

I just desire The Church to take and have what it had. It had political power…its clergy were politicians…so now they can replace Anglican/Episcopal/Church of England Bishops who are in The House of Lords

The Monarch attended Sunday Mass, frequent Confession and had a Catholic Coronation presided by the senior clergyman.

I want to see The Catholic Church in England and Wales take what Anglicanism has…I want to see the British Monarch genuflect before The Bishop of Rome as he makes a visit to the nation. I want to see a Requiem Mass for a Monarch and the Royal Family…I want to have The Church take what The Church of England has…what it should rightfully have…what the heretic King Henry did and his faithful daughter undone…we cannot blame Elizabeth I she tried to make peace between the to denominations but was an ardent Anglican.
 
Sam20045 said:
Also in regards to my opening statement or question however you wish to take it.

I just desire The Church to take and have what it had. It had political power…its clergy were politicians…so now they can replace Anglican/Episcopal/Church of England Bishops who are in The House of Lords

The Monarch attended Sunday Mass, frequent Confession and had a Catholic Coronation presided by the senior clergyman.

I want to see The Catholic Church in England and Wales take what Anglicanism has…I want to see the British Monarch genuflect before The Bishop of Rome as he makes a visit to the nation. I want to see a Requiem Mass for a Monarch and the Royal Family…I want to have The Church take what The Church of England has…what it should rightfully have…what the heretic King Henry did and his faithful daughter undone…we cannot blame Elizabeth I she tried to make peace between the to denominations but was an ardent Anglican.
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Actually, it’s not accurate to say that the Church before the reformation had political power. There was a long period of tension prior to the reformation from previous English Kings, until Edward III who backed by bishops and nobles decreed that no one could subject the nation to another power without the consent of the nation. There was later tension over the “provisions” set by Rome. And it’s important to remember that England did not use the Roman Rite - it had its own Sarum Rite throughout most of the Kingdom, and it was this that translated from Latin to form the first Prayer Book after the Reformation.

Despite its Anglicanism, the monarchy respects the different traditions within the United Kingdom - eg in Scotland where the national church is presbyterian, not anglican.

We in England have very good ecumenical relations between the different Christian faiths: we understand and respect the differences between Roman Catholism and Anglicanism: and the Anglican Church does very well in terms of its execution of liturgy for state ocassions. Although RC and Anglican mass attendance are broadly similar, that doesn’t mean that the vast majority of English people don’t identify themselves as Anglicans: most do.

What I think will happen is that the Church of England will be de-stablished (in fact, England is one of very few countries where the faith is formally established), so there is a formal separation between church and state.

And finally, I would hate to see anything that harms the English choral tradition. Westminster Cathedral has a wonderful choir but as it says on its website it is the last cathedral to sing daily Vespers. This is unlike the Anglican cathedrals which still sing daily evensong with largely male only choirs.
 
Sam20045 said:
Yes…The Scottish Episcopal Church in Scotland is apart of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

Also to Americans…England is but one country constituting the United Kingdom…there are Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Kingdom of England (Covers England and Wales) later covering Ireland…Kingdom of England merges with the Kingdom of Scotland officially becoming The Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland…Ireland later becomes the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland (owned by the British) now it is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. (United referring to the union of the Kingdom of England and Scotland in 1707)

You refer to the UK as Britain or the United Kingdom…

Elizabeth II is not The Queen of England…but The Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…there has not been a Queen of England since the time of Queen Anne in 1707.
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Yes, But…the point you seem to be missing is that only the Church of England is established, none of the other churches are established and in Scotland, Presbyterian is the prominent religion not Anglicanism.
 
Sam20045 said:
I just desire The Church to take and have what it had. It had political power…its clergy were politicians…
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What a horrendous idea. To propose this suggests not understanding what Christianity is about. Just because church had that kind of power in some countries for a period of time, it doesn’t mean that is how things are supposed to work. Political power corrupts. The church must not be tied to it. Pope Benedict certainly disagrees with you on this idea. (in ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ part 1).
 
liturgyluver said:
Yes, But…the point you seem to be missing is that only the Church of England is established, none of the other churches are established and in Scotland, Presbyterian is the prominent religion not Anglicanism.
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The (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland is legally recognised as the ‘national church’, and has certain privileges under law - the Queen is formally represented at its General Assembly, and most state schools (apart from those affiliated to another denomination) will have a Church of Scotland chaplain. However, it isn’t established in the same way the Church of England is - the Monarch is regarded as an Ordinary Member, not as its head, and Parliament has no authority over its internal affairs - it has no representation in the House of Lords (of course, being Presbyterian, it doesn’t have any Bishops anyway). There are several other Presbyterian denominations, most notably the Free Church of Scotland, which was first established in the 1840s, and tends to be more Conservative, but the Free Church is very weak outside the Gaelic-speaking Highlands and Islands.

The Scottish Episcopal Church is quite a small denomination, and although it’s sometimes derisively known as the ‘English Kirk’, actually has a long and independent history - many of its members were prominent supporters of the Jacobite restoration in the 1700s, and extended a great deal of sympathy to Catholics facing state persecution. However, over the past few decades it has become one of the most doctrinally liberal Anglican churches, possibly only matched by the Episcopal Church in the US.
 
Elizium23 said:
Realistically, what we will see within the next few decades is that Islam will be established as the national religion of the UK, and join in a pan-European Caliphate that will be established about the same time.

This is honestly the way I see it going, based on how things are currently headed.
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Really? :hmmm:
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
Who would like to have Camilla Parker-Bowles as Queen?
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Personally, I think the present Queen’s death would be an appropriate moment for Britain (providing the Union is still extant) to transition into a Republic. However, if that doesn’t happen, the prospect of Camilla being ‘Queen’ wouldn’t bother me, though I think it’s unlikely.
 
Sam20045 said:
Would it ever happen…that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office… e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
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Well, we can never rule out the power of God to work miracles, but such a thing would require a general return to Catholicism upon the part of the British people first. We can say the same for other European countries. Though it is true that with about 25% mass attendance among Catholics in Britain it is significantly higher than in the formerly Catholic countries like France and Spain.
 
mikelionheart said:
The possibilities of the opening post are pure fantasy.

Never happen.

Don’t really want it to.

**Although the English Catholic church has some problems it there seems to be a turning point happening and we are preventing the masses leaving and becoming a much more vibrant and visible church.

The ‘New Evangelism’ don’t you know?

We are overtaking the Church of England in weekly attendance.**
Praise the Lord.
Click to expand...
That’s how it looks from where I am too.

Mass numbers are either holding very steady or rising (certainly rising in my parish!).

We seem to be much more assertive and outward-looking these days and particularly over the past year, the blessings of the Papal visit are still with us and have not faded (at least not where I live anyway).
 
Sam20045 said:
Would it ever happen…that the United Kingdom would de-establish The Church of England and establish the Catholic Church as the Established Church in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland…with the British Monarch as a Catholic and the British Royal Family.

And the Archbishop of Cantebury being a Catholic Cardinal and who presides over the Coronation, also as the Primate of All England. With the Archbishop of York as a Catholic Cardinal as the Primate of England.

Have the Bishops in the House of Lords replaced with Catholic Bishops instead of Anglican.

And allow an exception in Canon Law for prelates in the Catholic Church in United Kingdom to allow the prelates to serve in public office… e.g. (Bishops in the House of Lords as Lords Spiritual)

Have Crown-owned churches called Royal Peculiars such as Westminster Abbey and the chapel at Windsor Castle be Catholic and not Church of England.

Could it ever be so?
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With God all things are possible. If I recall correctly the Catholic population of Britain has surpassed the CoE faithful.

That being said, I don’t see it likely. The Church of England is steeped in British governmental and royal tradition. Every monarch is still required to be a Church of England member. I’ve heard that the Cameron government has considered reforming the laws of succession to allow non-Anglicans to assume the throne, among other provisions, but I’m not so sure that is going to pass anytime soon. Perhaps a Briton might clear that up for me.

Maybe instead the Church of England might revive and gradually come to a more Anglo-Catholic theology, which would certainly be a positive from a Roman Catholic perspective, I’d say, no?
Realistically, what we will see within the next few decades is that Islam will be established as the national religion of the UK, and join in a pan-European Caliphate that will be established about the same time.
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This is honestly the way I see it going, based on how things are currently headed.
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The Lord had mercy on our beloved Europe in the past, and hopefully (I pray!) he shall have so again.

But you are correct, this is the unfortunate trajectory of Europe. The Lord forgive us!
 
O_Duirnin said:
Can’t anyone tell the difference between ‘England’ and the ‘United Kingdom’? England is but one of the four constituent countries of the UK. The (Anglican) Church of England is only the Established Church in England. In Scotland, the (Presbyterian) Church of Scotland has semi-formal recognition as the ‘national church’, but isn’t established in the same sense as the English Church, whereas Northern Ireland and Wales have no officially recognised national denominations whatsoever!
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With all due respect, many people in many countries ignore the distinction.

Although “Regno Unito” is the official term Italy uses to denote your country, newspapers and average Italians in general will frequently exchange UK/GB/England as if there were no difference. From what I’ve noticed, it’s the same in French.

I know it’s annoying, and it’s a justified annoyance, but have some patience, too.
 
Keep laughing but you increasingly half portions of cities cut off from the rest of your country as little Islamic islets.

Like East London, for instance. If you can call it that anymore.
 
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