The United States of Inequality

[estesbob]

Paying taxes is NOT the same thing as giving money to a homeless fellow.
If you think so, you need to go back to school.

Those roads and highways you drive on? Yeah, they’re not free. Those unjust wars a supposedly “pro-life” President started? Yeah those were just a tad expensive. Good thing his tax cuts are doing wonders for the economy.

Catholic charities funding is often matched by tax payer funding, because helping the poor and needy turns out to benefit society.

“Budgeting with the common good in mind”
thecatholicspirit.com/that-they-may-all-be-one/budgeting-with-the-common-good-in-mind/

. You’re absolutely right that they are not free. Which is why I find it disturbing that 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax.

 

[Rascalking]

You couldn’t?

If I was worried about food and shelter, no I couldn’t give money to charities. I know your a much more moral and noble soul than us nasty “conservatives” but you probably wouldn’t either.

 

[MillTownCath]

If I was worried about food and shelter, no I couldn’t give money to charities. I know your a much more moral and noble soul than us nasty “conservatives” but you probably wouldn’t either.

I’m sorry I seem to have missed the point.

 

[Rascalking]

I’m sorry I seem to have missed the point.

My point is that people who can’t afford food and rent don’t give to charities. You need to have money to give it away. It’s a dirty little secret that people on the left either can’t understand or don’t want to.

I don’t know if your on the left, and I don’t care. I am a nasty and heartless “conservative” who luckily is doing quite well-so I can afford to give to the church, charities, etc.

 

[MillTownCath]

. You’re absolutely right that they are not free. Which is why I find it disturbing that 47% of Americans pay no federal income tax.

We’ll then it looks like we’re on the same side, at least this time. How tragic.

 

[MillTownCath]

My point is that people who can’t afford food and rent don’t give to charities. You need to have money to give it away. It’s a dirty little secret that people on the left either can’t understand or don’t want to.

I don’t know if your on the left, and I don’t care. I am a nasty and heartless “conservative” who luckily is doing quite well-so I can afford to give to the church, charities, etc.

I’ve been posting a lot so maybe I might have said something I didn’t mean to, but I’m not advocating for people to live in poverty.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Your absolutely right, but it doesn’t matter to the left. It’s what feels good. Since preaching about wealth re-distribution (usually and ironically from seaside mansions) feels good, they continue to do it.

Want to combat poverty? It’s super simple. Work hard, don’t make immoral choices. Bam. There you go.

It’s their intentions, not their results, that they want to be evaluated on.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Explain then to me how many people who have far worse circumstances rise above them and become better than what they have?

Most over simplistic and naive thing you ever read, huh? Does that make you feel better to say something like that? Are you showing off how “hip” and “realistic” you are? That your “cynical and jaded?”

EDIT-A dear friend of mine was born poor. She was born to a single mother, as where her four siblings. All are happily married, not on welfare, own their own homes-totally unlike their mom.

Please tell them they are “naive” and “simplistic”.

Reminds me of a refugee from Cambodia who was able to get to the United States. Worked very hard. Language problems. Graduated as valedictorian from West Point.

I have other friends who also worked hard, got an education, bought houses that they rented out. Their family members gave them a terrible hard time … because my friends didn’t put their money “up their noses” … because they pursued all kinds of degrees and certificates and licenses. Actually, you can read about this sort of difficulty in which some people strive to excel … Look up stuff by Murray Bowen … about how family members will try to pull you down if you try to improve yourself … and also Jay Haley. Anyway, they are now comfortably retired. Their siblings, not so much.

 

[Rascalking]

It’s their intentions, not their results, that they want to be evaluated on.

I agree with you. Most people on the left and right have good intentions, but like my old man used to say, “Intentions aren’t good enough. Actions have consequences.”

 

[Warrenton]

In the United States, money doesn’t “go” to one group or another.

It is earned.

The more productive you are, the more you earn.

Perhaps better to frame the general rule this way: “the more valued the labor, the more one earns.” Strictly speaking, productivity is different than value.

Of course, this leaves out the question whether great wealth is a function of positioning oneself to siphon a greater share of money from an enterprise than one’s productive effort should yeild.

In Arabia, the sheiks get a lot of money by virtue of their position - many have little direct understanding of the nuts and bolts of drilling and refining. The same thing might be said of the senate here - their value is limited in terms of production, but by dint of controlling the federal money flow, as a class they are uniquely positioned to place themselves at the well within the top 5% of wage earners (with a salary of about $175 K).

 

[Oruwaith]

His point is the government does not tax the super rich enough. He wants to see a change in government policy, and doing nothing, as you suggest he should do, only maintains the status quo.

Instead of increasing taxes, how would you feel if we simplified them? No more loop holes, deductions, etc.

Warren Buffet sounds like he is an investor. He is more likely to be charged a capital gains tax than an income tax.

P.S. I believe the general long term tax rate for capital gains is 15%.

 

[MillTownCath]

Instead of increasing taxes, how would you feel if we simplified them? No more loop holes, deductions, etc.

Warren Buffet sounds like he is an investor. He is more likely to be charged a capital gains tax than an income tax.

P.S. I believe the general long term tax rate for capital gains is 15%.

That would be fine, but it seems Congress isn’t even willing to do that.

 

[Oruwaith]

That would be fine, but it seems Congress isn’t even willing to do that.

I know, seriously.

A simpler tax code means more stability. Some have even advocated for a flat tax just to rid the entire code of any loopholes. I personally think that the federal government should only have an income tax. Whether it is a flat tax, or the tax rates we have now, people will know exactly what they are going to pay a year before taxes are due (assuming the rates don’t change).

 

[joshrp]

In the United States, money doesn’t “go” to one group or another.

It is earned.

The more productive you are, the more you earn.

Most of that “money” is fiat money in the form of financial derivatives which are basically gambling bets on economic activity. Basically people are producing counterfeit money in the form of finanical instruments. It’s not earned at all. It’s stolen. These investment banksters aren’t “producing” anything. The only thing they are producing is massive hyperinflation.

 

[joshrp]

That would be fine, but it seems Congress isn’t even willing to do that.

Warren Buffet is a gambler, not an investor. He does not invest in anything real or physical. He basically makes bets on changes in so called monetary value. There has been no real physical investment in this nation’s economy since the 60s almost. Since then we have been basically eating of our investments of the previous decades, and calling it profit.

 

[exnihilo]

If you’re a child born without healthcare who is raised by a single mother, without any real parenting or education, your problems won’t go just go away if you “work hard.” And you won’t have any real knowledge of what is immoral or not.

You have to be careful with this thinking. It actually undermines what I think is probably your general stance and at the very least the common belief of many people in the west. You seem to be saying that poverty makes for bad people. If that is so then we should not have a democracy but an aristocracy. If poverty makes for bad people I should be especially careful around the poor and distrustful of them.

It’s insane that Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate than his office assistant. Plutocracy, gotta love it!

Racial inequality is even worse here. Whites’ net worth is 20 times that of blacks. But anyone who brings that up is just a reverse racist.

I dont doubt that Buffet gets tremendous tax advantages. That is why rich folks like him spend so much money ‘lobbying’ Congress. But I read an article the other day, which i cant seem to find, that pointed out that even if you taxed all income 100% above $200,000 you’d make very little difference in the deficit.

Regarding racial inequality the differences in the NFL and NBA are also pretty astonishing. How do we explain that?

Billionaires speaking out for “liberal” policy? Never though I’d see the day. Then again, the past few weeks the new extremes in Republican party has been called out by their own.

Actually it is not true that the rich are conservative and Republican. The Democrats get their money from rich folks the same as Republican. The better way to understand it is that with a such a powerful government, able to control all aspects of your life, anyone who wants to be successful (which will be measured in money) relies on that government showing them favor. The best gig for any business is to get a government contract. You can overcharge and there is very little oversight. The next best gig is a grant. If you are a bank you can get billions of funny money to cover your bad loans. The most successful corporations rely completely on the government. In fact government is quite literally their creator (corporations are creatures of the state) and sustainer. They grumble about regulation but at the end of the day they end up writing the laws and are able to do so in a way that favors them and keeps out competition.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Warren Buffet is a gambler, not an investor. He does not invest in anything real or physical. He basically makes bets on changes in so called monetary value. There has been no real physical investment in this nation’s economy since the 60s almost. Since then we have been basically eating of our investments of the previous decades, and calling it profit.

Buffett is not “really” a gambler, because he gets the government to “fix” the tax laws to benefit HIM.

If you risked all your time and money and ideas and built a successful business that everybody loves and supports, then Buffett will offer you a peanut price to buy it from you … because if you don’t sell to him, then when you die, the IRS will demand 55% of THEIR estimate of the worth of the business … and they want their money in CASH and they want it NOW!

So, there is Mr. White Knight Buffett with his $60 Billion checkbook … ready to “bail you out”. And all he did was lobby to keep inheritance taxes high.

Nice guy. [sarcasm]

 

[Monte_RCMS]

ON THE OTHER HAND …

lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=634888

 

[nosmelc]

equality is no longer a consideration in decisions that effect the economy, if it ever was.
numbers are the be all and end all. human decisions are based on how to manipulate the numbers to produce more wealth PERIOD. that is why we have for profit health care, because in all business, increasing profit is the only thing that matters and in our world everything from health care to art to food is business. love thy neighbor need not apply, there is no room at the inn.

 

[Almagore]

Especially when productivity is defined in terms of monetary value…

Personally I think my neighborhood trash collector is much more productive than the CEO of either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac. However he earns quite a bit less.

My first job after the US Air Force was as a trash collector so I appreciate those folks who do that necessary service. But I didn’t stay a trash collector. I worked and went to college at the same time and became a Registered Nurse. If a person wants to make more money, they should go to school to get their business degree and work up to become a CEO. In the United States that is possible for anyone if they work for it and don’t think that the world owes them a living.