The Universal Church of Jesus Christ

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Area_Man

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Is the Catholic Church is a religion unto itself, is it another denomination of the Universal Church of Jesus Christ?

Galatians 4: 26-28 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 4: 4-6** **4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

1 Corinthians 12: 4-6** **4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6

1 Corinthians 12: 12-13 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Why does the idea of the Catholic Church being one of many denominations of the Universal Church anger many Catholics? Why do we Christians spend so much time trying to convince others that our denomination superior? Why can’t we agree that “As it is, there are many parts, yet one body,” (I Corinthians 12:20) and that these divisions are the will of God? Will Christians ever be able to embrace the fact that we are ALL the body of Christ and, “that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another, (I Corinthians 12:25)?

Respectfully,
-Area Man
 
The proposal that the catholic church is a denomination of the universal church doesn’t necessarily anger catholics; it is just incorrect, that’s all! The very word catholic means universal. The catholic church is the universal church. And there is no question that our church is superior to the protestant denominations, for after all, we have the seven sacraments and they do not.
 
Area Man:
Why can’t we agree that “As it is, there are many parts, yet one body,” (I Corinthians 12:20) and that these divisions are the will of God?

Respectfully,
-Area Man
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The “many parts” Paul refers to here were all in communion with one another, all professing the same faith, participating in the same baptism. The “many parts” represented by denominations today result from heretical and schismatic beliefs which contradict the faith of the universal Church.
 
Christ’s body should be united–not separated and in schism with each member teaching contradictory doctrines. There is one Truth. Not to be disrespectful, but other denominations teach falsehoods. This is not what Christ wants. He founded one Church. He did not found a few and tell one they needed sacraments, another they needed faith alone, another they should be sola scriptura, another they had no free will and were predestined for Heaven and Hell, another they just had to say the sinner’s prayer and they could never lose their salvation, etc., etc. This would make Christ’s Body resemble the Frankenstein monster:bigyikes:
 
And there is no question that our church is superior to the protestant denominations,
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I appreciat your personal opinion, but look at what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 12: 22-23
22 On the contrary, the parts of the body which seem to be weaker are indispensable, 23 and those parts of the body which we think less honorable we invest with the greater honor
 
Area Man:
Why does the idea of the Catholic Church being one of many denominations of the UniversalChurch anger many Catholics? Why do we Christians spend so much time trying to convince others that our denomination superior? Why can’t we agree that “As it is, there are many parts, yet one body,” (I Corinthians 12:20) and that these divisions are the will of God? Will Christians ever be able to embrace the fact that we are ALL the body of Christ and, “that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another, (I Corinthians 12:25)?

Respectfully,
-Area Man
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very good question. I think that a key word here might be “our”. Catholics may sometimes mis-speak, but the fact is that the Catholic Church is not “ours”. “Upon this rock I will build MY Church.” We are only the body, Christ is the only head.

The denominations you may be refering to are founded by men. If they base their theology on the original, that is a only by their choice, and with their limitations. Thus they do tend to argue and disagree as to who is better (more truthful?). The entire deposit of the Faith can only be found in the Church where Jesus built it, and where the Holy Spirit guides.

Non- Catholics are often very spirit filled, and even holy. But if I were to want only the best for them, as Jesus does, it would be to come home to where we find One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism.
 
Area Man:
Why can’t we agree that “As it is, there are many parts, yet one body,” (I Corinthians 12:20) and that these divisions are the will of God? Will Christians ever be able to embrace the fact that we are ALL the body of Christ and, “that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another, (I Corinthians 12:25)?

Respectfully,
-Area Man
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but remember also Christ’s hope that “they may all be one”.
 
Area Man:
Is the Catholic Church is a religion unto itself, is it another denomination of the Universal Church of Jesus Christ?

Galatians 4: 26-28 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 4: 4-6****4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.

1 Corinthians 12: 4-6****4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; 5 and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; 6

1 Corinthians 12: 12-13 12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body–Jews or Greeks, slaves or free–and all were made to drink of one Spirit.

Why does the idea of the Catholic Church being one of many denominations of the UniversalChurch anger many Catholics? Why do we Christians spend so much time trying to convince others that our denomination superior? Why can’t we agree that “As it is, there are many parts, yet one body,” (I Corinthians 12:20) and that these divisions are the will of God? Will Christians ever be able to embrace the fact that we are ALL the body of Christ and, “that there may be no discord in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another, (I Corinthians 12:25)?

Respectfully,
-Area Man
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1 Corinthians 1:10:

10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
 
Genesis315 said:
1 Corinthians 1:10:

10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.
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John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

This is the substance of Christianity. Anyone who believes John 3:16-17 is united in the same mind and the same judgemnet. EVERYTHING else we may argue about is style over substance.

Area Man
 
Area Man:
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
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Yes, but is refusing to believe Him when He said to eat His flesh really believing in Him completely? Is not believing Him when He gave the apostles the power to forgive and retain sins really believing in Him? Let’s not take this passage out of context. Satan also believes in Jesus. There’s a little more to it than that.
 
Area Man:
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

This is the substance of Christianity. Anyone who believes John 3:16-17 is united in the same mind and the same judgemnet. EVERYTHING else we may argue about is style over substance.

Area Man
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Area Man,
Your assertion that anyone who believes John 3:16-17 IS united is false both logically and scripurally. For example, JW’s and Mormons both believe in John 3:16, and quote it, however, their concept of Christianity, and even GOD, even CHRIST are certainly not in Unity with that of each other or Catholicism.

Further, you are making John 3:16 a test of Christianity, something that scripture does not do! The “substance of Christianity” is CHRIST, not a Bible verse! CHRIST founded a church with authoratative leaders. My questions to you is this… why do you not follow those who have the ordination of the Apostles?

Scripture says that there are many that say “Lord, Lord” and claim to believe and Follow Christ who will be lost!!! It is not enough to be sincere, if your sincerely wrong!!

Brandon
 
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SDA2RC:
Area Man,
It is not enough to be sincere, if your sincerely wrong!!
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It’s amazing how quickly this has turned into an “us right, them wrong” thread. Why can’t we even consider the possibility that we are all right?

Nearly every thread on these forums turns into a debate about how right one side is and how wrong the other side is. It is my attempt to show that taking sides is nonsense. For my attempt at trying to bring people together, I am told that I am “sincerely wrong.”

How sad it is that the Christian faith is used to divide people.

-Area Man

PS The opposite of faith is not doubt. The opposite of faith is certainty.
 
Area Man:
It’s amazing how quickly this has turned into an “us right, them wrong” thread. Why can’t we even consider the possibility that we are all right?
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That’s relativism. God has one Truth that does not contradict itself. There is a right and wrong.
How sad it is that the Christian faith is used to divide people.
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Tell that to Martin Luther and pals. Division is the fruit of Sola Scriptura.
 
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Genesis315:
That’s relativism. God has one Truth that does not contradict itself. There is a right and wrong.

This is what I’m saying! God has one truth. The human decernment of the divine truth is where the problems lie.
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Genesis315:
Tell that to Martin Luther and pals. Division is the fruit of Sola Scriptura

If you have Martin Luther’s email address, I will be happy to discuss it with him 😉

-Area Man
 
Area Man:
How sad it is that the Christian faith is used to divide people.

-Area Man
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AreaMan, Christianity does not divide people, rejection of Christainity divides people. It seems to me that your wanting people to just say that there is a possibility that everyone is right? We can’t do that and be faithful to scripture and God! If everyone could be right, why did Christ die?

No, There is only way way to God, and that is through Christ. Christ established specific guidelines, beliefs and practices, including a church! It is not intellectually honest to claim that two viewpoints that are diametrically opposed are both correct.

As an analogy, if you ask two children what 1+1 equals… and the first child answers 123 and the second child answers 2, are they both right? Truth is truth, and two opposite answers are not both right.

We can only be unified under the banner of truth, not under the banner of relativism.

Brandon
 
Area Man:
This is what I’m saying! God has one truth. The human decernment of the divine truth is where the problems lie.
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PRECISELY, this is why we should not trust mere humanity to determine truth. Christ setup a divine institution to determine and teach truth, if we are not in alignment with the divine institution of Christ, are we wrong or is Christ?
Area Man:
If you have Martin Luther’s email address, I will be happy to discuss it with him 😉 -Area Man
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ROTFL… tell ya what… Since we can’t find Martin Luthers address, how about writing to your local Catholic bishop? hehe

Brandon
 
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SDA2RC:
It is not intellectually honest to claim that two viewpoints that are diametrically opposed are both correct.

As an analogy, if you ask two children what 1+1 equals… and the first child answers 123 and the second child answers 2, are they both right? Truth is truth, and two opposite answers are not both right.

We can only be unified under the banner of truth, not under the banner of relativism.

Brandon
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Brandon please give me a real example of two viewpoints (held by different subsets of Christians) that are diametrically opposed. I don’t believe there are any.
 
Area Man:
God has one truth. The human decernment of the divine truth is where the problems lie.
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Yes! Human discernment of the Truth is no good. We can’t do it on our own. That’s the very reason why Christ founded a Church and promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail. The divine Truth that was revealed to the Apostles has been passed down over the generations. It is guarded by the Church. We don’t have to figure it out ourselves. In my opinion, to believeto be able to read a bunch of books that were written thousands of years ago in a bunch of different styles and interpret them all correctly without any help is very prideful. The Ethiopian in Acts 8 (I think) needed a teacher like we all do. That’s why Jesus had a teaching ministry and that ministry is continued by the Church. Christ didn’t just write the Bible, pass it out, and tell us to figure it out. He gave us a living teacher.🙂
 
Area Man:
Brandon please give me a real example of two viewpoints (held by different subsets of Christians) that are diametrically opposed. I don’t believe there are any.
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Real Presence of Christ. Catholics and Orthodox say that Christ is fully in the Eucharist, body and soul. Baptist’s for example deny this vehemently.

So… is he both completely there and completely not there? Or are the two position in direct opposition of each other?

Brandon
 
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